jimmuller 

My Oriental Bianchi (presumably Japanese, though I wouldn't stake my life on it) is quite nice too! Of the six rideable bikes in the house, it would be my second choice for long day rides and could easily be my first.

The Golden Boy 

There's a huge difference in "collectable" and "decent bike."

Most of the bikes in your first post, generally aren't going to be attractive to a C&V bike n00b.

I look at your list, and there's not of a lot of appeal there for me.

This isn't really a thread about esteemed Italian race heraldry- it's for the person who might think that a Huffy is worth $100.

Look at the Grant Peterson/Rivendell philosophy. A nice, nice riding, nice fitting bike with decent quality components that is about getting out and enjoying a ride. Yes, you can do that on a Free Spirit- but you probably would have a better experience on a Trek, Schwinn or Miyata sport bike- and end up with more pride in ownership. And someone is much more likely to put down $50-200 for something like that than $1000 for a bike they don't understand.

Maybe someday that pride in ownership translates into getting the newest loopy carbon fiber racer, or fancy vintage racing bikes with ultra collectable gruppos, or outrageously expensive modern versions of C&V sport/touring bikes. Until then, help people find good bikes they can enjoy.


(as an aside, as I'm writing that last paragraph, I'm thinking to myself 'I've got pretty much all the bikes I want. Except for a custom made Ellis blinged out and gleaming with stainless and chromed brightness of a thousand suns.' I guess I'm in that third group.)

Chombi

Oooohh la la!,...... French jerky!......Seasoned and aged to perfection!

kunsunoke 

Haven't listed it yet, but I have a Bianchi Boardwalk CX/gravel conversion that turned out quite well. That bike was made in ROC. I'm looking forward to hammering it out on some single track at Marsh Creek. It's probably no more than a three hundred dollar bike, though - even with the non-stock parts.

pastorbobnlnh 

Notice the little light green seasoning from the sweet basil? I'm told this goes well with a well aged Merlot.

iab

Good





Not good.

Drillium Dude 

Nice assumption, but wrong.

I could waste a lot more words here, but life's short as it is - and I don't think I'd change your assumption of what this thread is about anyhow. Oh, well

DD

Drillium Dude 

Good deal - it's great to know you are finding it useful

DD

kunsunoke 

Bad lug work (again, apologies to Randy):



Good lug work - Spectrum Cycles


Cherubim (Konno brothers in Akasaka):


Tommasini:


Not quite as nice as the above, but still excellent fit/finish. Trek-Wisconsin/Japan fastback stay lug:


Bridgestone NJS Keirin bike frame detail (seat tube):

iab

That's the truth.

Lately, I have been more into the second tier stuff. In many cases, it is harder to come by.

Take for example the calipers I posted. In 1951, Universal came out with the Mod 51, the "good" ones. The second pair is called the Sport. It is Universal's previous "good" caliper, the Mod 39 with a new stamp.

Then there is the Campagnolo I posted. From a manufacturing perspective, the Sport and Gran Sport share many parts, which lowers cost. Looking at the different parts between the two, there is little difference in cost. And judging by how many each are remaining, the Gran Sport probably held an advantage in economies of scale. The best conclusion is Campagnolo made the Sport for marketing reasons, it filled a low price point so the Gran Sport was easier to stomach at a higher price point. Margin lower on the Sport, higher on the Gran Sport.

So as I said, I am more interested in collecting in the "crappy' less collectible stuff. And the biggest irony is while it sells for less, it is usually more rare. Anyone want to drink that kool-aid?

Cute Boy Horse

There's usually a sweet spot between the desirable stuff and the bad. Reynolds 501 frames are less than a water bottle's weight different from 531 for example, but they go for a lot less.

Drillium Dude 

Exactly - either way, if we help out with defining the upper and lower ends, it will go a long way to assisting someone new to either riding or collecting older bikes.

DD

The Golden Boy 

I guess I don't understand what this has to do with helping n00bs to not buy ****ty bikes.

Thumpic

If you want to take on bike rehabbing/riding as a hobby, then the quality doesn't really matter as long as it's safe. Get what appeals to you and enjoy yourself.

If you want to ride a vintage bike and not work on it, then plan on spending some bucks to a flipper or a LBS that caters to vintage entushiasts. A well built, then rebuilt quality bike has already lasted years if not decades. It'll be as viable (if not exceedingly better) than any new bike in its price range.

If you're jumping full bore into the hobby then be patient and score a bargain. They ARE out there. Craigslist, thrift stores, rummage sales, estates sales, yard sales, pawn shops, junkyards, etc.....bargains can be had. Read, learn and spend wisely.

TOOLS. Buy the best tools you can afford; you'll thank me later. Cheap tools will ruin parts and get you hurt! If you have to replace a cheap tool; spend twice as much the first time and be done with it. Some required tools are bike specific and you won't find them at Home Depot. The Internet is your friend.

If you're really dedicated, buy a GOOD bike work stand. The less you worry about the bike falling off your home made stand, better your results will be.

Quality bikes, tools, replacement parts will be their own rewards.

Drillium Dude 

I like the pics in the lug post - another example of assisting a newbie with what to look for, and what to pass up. The pics of the lugs with gaps are perfect to illustrate something to avoid - for fear of joint failure, not aesthetics. Same goes for the Delrin derailleur pics; if a newbie is looking for something that lasts, those would be good to pass up. Great submissions!

As for the Ideale saddle pic: ya think Rudi might be able to save that bad boy?

DD

Drillium Dude 

Very true - Columbus' Cromor or Aelle are also good examples of this.

DD

pinch1967

This is a great thread for the new collector who are still in the process of learning whats good and whats not so good !! wish I had found this alot sooner when I started collecting and riding it would have made life easier ! the pics also sure help alot too you guys are doing a great job teaching the new collectors !! thanks agian and please post more info !! I love to look at nice bikes !!

Thumpic

I don't have any, but maybe some pics of slightly bent forks, wrinkled paint and so forth......

pinch1967

Every little bit helps teach us what to look for !!

Drillium Dude 

More sage advice - how about some pics of quality/not-so-quality and bike-specific tools?

This thread is somewhat useless without pics

DD

Drillium Dude 

Oh, hey that's another good point. I've got a couple pics here that show evidence of a front-end collision.

Note the crack lines encircling the tube just below the point of the lug - a sure sign a bike took a hit:



Look closely on the side of the top tube and you'll just be able to make out a small bump just beyond the lug points - another sure sign of a collision:



DD

eschlwc

not good: '81 univega gran rally with shimano 600



good!: '81 univega gran rally (same bike after a lot of love)

iab

First, I am pointing out what was top tier and what was second tier in the 1950s.

Second, in terms of collecting, it doesn't really matter what a n00b wants, ****ty or not, it should hold your interest.

Third, "rarity" has nothing to do with "collectible".

Forth, context matters as second tier was likely top tier a few years back.

Need me to clear it up some more?

cranky old road 

Rear drop-outs:
Best (cast):

Okay for utility use (stamped):

Craptastic (Stamped with crimp attachment):

cranky old road 

Cranks/bottom brackets
Best- Cotterless alloy

Not so good unless on an antique (pre-60s?) bike- Steel cottered

Not good- Single piece steel forged "Ashtabula" crank