16Victor

I follow the adage that an object on the ground can't fall down. With a kickstand, the bike will almost always fall derailleur side down - ouch.

There's almost always grass to lay the bike down on with no damage. Saves scars and scuffs on the seat, bar tape, QRs, and top tube from falling or leaning.

The Golden Boy 

I guess when using things properly in a proper situation, it's a useful tool. If I'm unloading bikes in a parking lot, I do not want to lean my bike on my car, or anyone else's car. I don't want to lay the bike down, I don't want to lay my bike on blacktop or concrete, I don't want to walk off the parking lot to lay it in grass. If it's a situation that would be unstable to hold the bike, don't use the kickstand.

The Golden Boy 

"Assistance for Newbs: post your pics of varying quality levels of bike-related stuff"

Drillium Dude 

From a personal viewpoint, I see a kickstand as a full-time weight penalty for the rare occasion that it will come in handy, so the payoff isn't commensurate with the investment. Just my 2 cents, for what it's worth

DD

SJX426 

I can see the value of a kickstand for some. Just not me. Not having one reminds me I don't want to leave the bike....anywhere out of site. For unloading form a vehicle, I use this:
It stays in the car and I do my ride.

Another reason I don't use kickstands is the possiblity of crushing the chainstays. Someone did this on my Le Champion before I purchased it. That is one of the reasons for not repairing the bent frame. If you don't tighten it enough, it rotates on the stays and does a number on the finish. I would rather take my chances on finding something to lean it on or gently put it on the ground (grass).

If there is a kickstand mount welded on the frame, I don't pay any attention to the bike in general!

Drillium Dude 

^ This.

Completely agree, for all the same reasons - but again, that's just me. Others may get plenty of use out of it. One other thing: I too have used kickstands before and when the bike was somehow knocked over it always went over on the driveside; ouch!

I simply find it easier - and more solid - to lean it up against a wall or something, or even lay it down on grass. Someone's going to have to work really hard to knock it over when it's leaning at an angle against a wall.

I use the same bike stands, too - they're great! Always have a couple stashed in my trunk, as they double as a small workstand in a pinch, too.

DD

mr_silver

Good advice sir.

mr_silver

I learned something new here as well. This is an awesome thread and hope you guys keep it going.
Thanks.

mr_silver

Thats the reason i pretty much took the kickstand off all my bikes. They always made noise sometimes they werent efficient and other times really for weight reduction.
But i started bmw when little so it was common too take all the crap off.

LuckyChow99

My 50 lb Pashley Roadster makes me forget about kickstand weight.

eschlwc

i had a kickstand on my first bike, a free spirit with a banana seat and ape hanger bars. i never used the kickstand though. i normally dismounted while still moving and watched with satisfaction as the bike crashed in the front yard.

Chitown_Mike

Anyone have any bottom barrel/better/best/handmade by angels info on quills?

Or how about were there any older bikes that used a 2 piece stem/stick out piece (totally correct lingo I know ) like the more modern ones come with? And is it worth it to switch to a 2 piece stem over a single quill?

tmh657

This is good. Makes for a nice Celeste Bianchi. Tapered to a larger diameter at the BB. I think BG mentioned it perhaps but she talked about ovalizing on the Max tubes.




Serotta uses Reynolds Colorado Concept tubing and has tapered seat and down tubes, fatter at the BB. Good stuff. I have an Atlanta. Stiff BB with great power transfer and just a wonderful ride quality. If you run across a bike with Columbus EL-OS or the Reynolds CC, and you have the cash, (clean examples are a bit pricey) buy it. I like the BB cluster.





Bling is always nice.



I looked for something to avoid. I must have owned this at one time since it's in my photobucket account under Bianchi. I think Ewwww might be enough of an explanation but, low end crank, stem shifters, turkey levers, saddle cover, plastic pedals, replacement fork= crash damage, etc....

Drillium Dude 

I'm thinking you're talking about pedals here.

I would say the bottom of the barrel are those hideous plastic pedals; I have to think they wouldn't last as long as steel or alloy pedals, either.

Plastic pedal:



Better would be all-steel "rattrap" pedals; these normally weigh in a little more than plastic but will last longer.

All-steel "rattrap" pedal:



The best pedals have an alloy body and either steel, alloy or even titanium cages - sometimes the cages are swaged on, sometimes they're bolted on for removal/replacement. Better materials aside, the best pedals also have the best bearings (either loose ball or sealed) which means they'll last a loooooong time.

Alloy body, steel cage (swaged onto body):



Alloy body, alloy cage (screwed onto body, replaceable):



I'll look around for some stem pics and post them later on...watch this space

DD

Chitown_Mike

DD, great info on pedals but I meant the quills the handlebar gets clamped in. Sorry if my terminology was off, feel free to correct it! Perhaps it is called a stem?

Chris Chicago

It was mentioned earlier that aluminum rims are preferrable to steel. One way to test for this is using a magnet, which will stick to steel but not alu.

Is the super sport the best bike made with one piece cranks or where there others of similar quality?

Drillium Dude 

Gotcha - I saw the two separate paragraphs and deduced that the first asked about pedals while the second asked about stems. I'm still looking for examples of stems from bottom to top, plus adjustable ones, too. I'll get some posted by the end of my day (which just started - I'm currently living in the southern hemisphere) if someone doesn't beat me to it

DD

eschlwc

i hate pedals without removable dust caps that disallow an overhaul with new grease and bearings.

but even great bikes sometimes come with original pedals like this -- my pkn10, for instance.

iab

I may be risking the full wrath of the self-appointed thread police, but then again, I don't give a crap.

Good - Parallelogram derailleur
Bad - Coil spring derailleur

The mechanical advantage of the parallelogram makes for an easier and smoother shift. The dual plates of the parallelogram derailleur instead of the single plate of the coil spring derailleur makes it stiffer and creates a crisp shift. The large surface area of the coil coming into contact with itself creates a very high difficulty of shifting when dirt gets into the coil.

Good - Parallelogram derailleur (Campagnolo Gran Sport)




Bad - Coil spring derailleur (this is a Huret TdF, Simplex made a similar model)

Drillium Dude 

Here's a quality vintage stem (Cinelli 1A):




Another quality vintage stem (Dura-Ace AX):



Vintage high-quality adjustable stem (Cinelli Demi-fond):



Modern good quality adjustable stem (for rise, not length):



Crappy and dangerous - avoid at all costs (French AVA "Death Stem", known to snap in half with no warning):



DD

SJX426 

Great start! Is there more? I have a list off the top of my head:
Frame
Lugs - check
Braze On – check – More?
Cable routing options– check – More?
Fork Crowns
Forks
Dropouts– check – More?
Brake bridge – check – More?
Chain stay bridge
Bottom bracket shell
Bottom bracket
Seat posts - check
Saddles
Brake calipers - check
Brake levers
Brifters
Stems- check
Handlebars
Headsets
Shifters - check
Cranks - check
Hubs - check
Skewers
Front derailleurs
Rear derailleurs - check
Chains
Pedals - check
Kickstands - check
Racks
Fenders
Tires = clinchers vs tubulars

MORE?

martl

"good" and "bad" in terms of shifting quality - yes. In terms of "desireable" or "collectable" - if you find an original bike equiped with one of those Hurets or Simplexes, i'll take them of you for a small fee. (same goes for the long reach Universal calipers shown on Pg1 or 2).

Some of this stuff is actually harder to judge as one might guess.

Example: When i was offered a "1970ies" bike "with Cinelli written on it", i almost didn't make the effort of having a look at it because i was 100% sure it would be an 80ies italian microfusione-lugged beater with a Cinelli BB casing and some ill-matched Shimano RX 100 stuff on it.


I took a look and found out it was a true Cinelli. Still took me a while to realize its real age, state and condition.

Piece of junk:


No piece of junk:


A crappy plastic saddle from a department store "semi-racer" is hard to tell from a 1960 Unicanitor for the untrained eye. Same goes for certain types of brake levers. A frame having lumpy lugs might be a cheap 1960ies one or a 1935 museum piece.

Not all that hot:


very hot:

Chombi

Yeah....
O2, Nitrogen, Helium, Hydrogen or custom Inert gas cocktail in your tires??

Chombi

Holy cow! No relief hole at the end of the wedge slot!
As Antoine, the newly hired designer noted at AVA many years ago,....."Ehhhh.....nobody's gonna see that anyway!... And where the heck is that stem going to go if it cracks!"....

Catnap 

Echoing Martl, regardless of the fact that in strict mechanical terms, a parallelogram derailleur is superior, if someone finds a bike with a coil-spring derailleur like a Simplex TDF or Huret Course, they probably have a valuable vintage bike on their hands.

there's a big difference between bikes that have mechanically inferior parts on them due to age versus those that have them due to low quality. the whole cottered cranks thing is a good example.

and having ridden through Brooklyn/Manhattan traffic to work this morning on a 1940's randonneur bike, I can attest to the wonderful ride quality of a well-made and maintained bike, regardless of how archaic its mechanical components are.


now... in the spirit of adding to the conversation, not just criticizing:

Good Components:
Shimano Dura Ace, 600, Ultegra, 105, RSX, Deore, Sante, Light Action
SunTour Superbe, Cyclone, Sprint, Arx, GPX, XC, V / Vx
Campagnolo Record, Nuovo Record, Chorus, Croce d'Aune, Athena, Euclid, Gran Sport, Triomphe, Victory
Simplex Super LJ / SLJ
Huret Jubilee, Duopar, Luxe

Lesser Components:
SunTour Honor, Seven, Spirt, Hero
Shimano Skylark, Tourney, Adamas, Positron, Exage, RX100, Altus, Alivio, Selecta
Campagnolo Valentino, Veloce, Mirage, Xenon, Stratos, Gran Turismo
Simplex Prestige, LJ (anything made with plastic)
Huret Allvit, Svelto
Falcon
Sun Race
Most "Schwinn-approved" derailleurs
Altenburger brakes