Tire sizes?
12-26-14, 11:38 AM
#51
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NE Indiana
Posts: 8,687
Bikes: 2020 Masi Giramondo 700c; 2013 Lynskey Peloton; 1992 Giant Rincon; 1989 Dawes needs parts; 1985 Trek 660; 1985 Fuji Club; 1984 Schwinn Voyager; 1984 Miyata 612; 1977 Raleigh Competition GS
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1126 Post(s)
Liked 253 Times
in
204 Posts
Frankly I don't give a damn about the inertial stuff! I have 27" wheels on my touring bike and according to the experts I should be running a 3/4 wide tire because the larger wheel like narrower tires but instead I run a 1 1/4 on the rear and a 1 1/8 on the front. But since that bike is used for touring I don't care about how fast the bike goes I care about comfort day in and day out and tire impact increase to prevent snake bites or striking the rim which could happen if I had really narrow tires and 210 pounds or so of rider and gear.
So with any of my bikes I don't pay heed to that information I just use whatever tire size I want, I simply posted the infor for everyone's entertainment pleasure!!
12-27-14, 03:00 PM
#52
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 6,480
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1361 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 424 Times
in
283 Posts
Rolling resistance wise there is none, but there is something called inertia which is how a bike will hold it's line, and affects handling and that's where the differences lie. Here is a copy of part of the article in Bicycle Quarterly that speaks about inertia and how it affects handling:
"Handling Why do larger wheels feel different? The front wheel’s rotational inertia affects how a bike holds its line, both on straightaways and in corners. Larger wheels and/or heavier tires/rims have more rotational inertia, making it harder to turn the front wheel to initiate cornering. If your front wheel has too much rotational inertia, it becomes difficult to change your line in mid-corner, for example, to avoid a pothole or to round
a curve with decreasing radius. With too little rotational inertia, your bike requires constant corrections to stay on course. You want a wheel/tire combination that is just right, with neither too much nor too little stability.
Another Bicycle Quarterly test had three people ride three bikes with identical geometries (fit, trail, bottom bracket height, etc.), but with different wheel sizes (26 inch, 650B, 700C). All test riders independently
found that they preferred smaller wheels for wider and heavier tires, and larger wheels for narrower, lighter tires. When we calculated the rotational inertia of the wheels, we found that these preferences all yielded similar values. Based on that test, we concluded that 700C wheels are best for narrow tires up to about 30 mm. For wider tires (30 to 42 millimeters), our testers preferred the somewhat smaller 650B wheels. Tires wider than 42 millimeters handled best on even smaller 26-inch wheels.
It is no coincidence that the outer diameter of bicycle wheels has remained relatively constant, somewhere between 26 and 27 inches, since chain-driven bicycles were first were developed 130 years ago, despite much experimentation with other sizes. Motorcyclists have arrived at similar conclusions; they went to smaller wheels when their tires became wider and heavier, so that the rotational inertia remained the same.
This means that you should first decide how wide you want your tires to be. The wheel size will follow from that. If you love narrow tires, you should use a larger wheel. If you prefer wide tires, your wheels should be smaller."
End of copy from Bicycle Quarterly, I hope that helps; if you want to read the entire article you can download this PDF file; see:
WHEEL SIZE MATTERS - Adventure Cycling Association
"Handling Why do larger wheels feel different? The front wheel’s rotational inertia affects how a bike holds its line, both on straightaways and in corners. Larger wheels and/or heavier tires/rims have more rotational inertia, making it harder to turn the front wheel to initiate cornering. If your front wheel has too much rotational inertia, it becomes difficult to change your line in mid-corner, for example, to avoid a pothole or to round
a curve with decreasing radius. With too little rotational inertia, your bike requires constant corrections to stay on course. You want a wheel/tire combination that is just right, with neither too much nor too little stability.
Another Bicycle Quarterly test had three people ride three bikes with identical geometries (fit, trail, bottom bracket height, etc.), but with different wheel sizes (26 inch, 650B, 700C). All test riders independently
found that they preferred smaller wheels for wider and heavier tires, and larger wheels for narrower, lighter tires. When we calculated the rotational inertia of the wheels, we found that these preferences all yielded similar values. Based on that test, we concluded that 700C wheels are best for narrow tires up to about 30 mm. For wider tires (30 to 42 millimeters), our testers preferred the somewhat smaller 650B wheels. Tires wider than 42 millimeters handled best on even smaller 26-inch wheels.
It is no coincidence that the outer diameter of bicycle wheels has remained relatively constant, somewhere between 26 and 27 inches, since chain-driven bicycles were first were developed 130 years ago, despite much experimentation with other sizes. Motorcyclists have arrived at similar conclusions; they went to smaller wheels when their tires became wider and heavier, so that the rotational inertia remained the same.
This means that you should first decide how wide you want your tires to be. The wheel size will follow from that. If you love narrow tires, you should use a larger wheel. If you prefer wide tires, your wheels should be smaller."
End of copy from Bicycle Quarterly, I hope that helps; if you want to read the entire article you can download this PDF file; see:
WHEEL SIZE MATTERS - Adventure Cycling Association
I ride many type, style and sizes of bikes along with various wheel sizes. For touring road, I can clearly feel the least roll resistance, regardless of diameter or width using a tire with a slight raised center ridge having a 5mm width. Doesn't matter if its a fatty or skinny 700c, 26" or 27". Its not the answer for all applications or depending what a racer desires but for discussion of low rolling resistance.
Last edited by crank_addict; 12-27-14 at 03:06 PM.
12-28-14, 12:56 AM
#53
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I read with interest that one of you has 1 1/4 tires in the rear and 1 1/8 in the front. I have a Nishiki Ariel mountain bike, but I'm new to road cycling, and I just received a new to me 1981 SR Gran Course. I traded a violin for it.
The SR rims are Araya 27 x 1 1/4 (14 x 630), and the previous owner installed Vittoria Zuffino 27 x 1 1/8 (28-630) tires on each one.
I've tried a search for tire sizes and came upon this thread. At the risk of being told that my wheels are obsolete and heading for obsolescence, is it acceptable to run 1 1/8 tires on 1 1/4 rims safely? I'm wondering why he didn't use 1 1/4 tires. In my search, I know that they are available. Also, what's the psi for these tires? I've read 80 -100 psi? Sounds like a lot! Thanks.
The SR rims are Araya 27 x 1 1/4 (14 x 630), and the previous owner installed Vittoria Zuffino 27 x 1 1/8 (28-630) tires on each one.
I've tried a search for tire sizes and came upon this thread. At the risk of being told that my wheels are obsolete and heading for obsolescence, is it acceptable to run 1 1/8 tires on 1 1/4 rims safely? I'm wondering why he didn't use 1 1/4 tires. In my search, I know that they are available. Also, what's the psi for these tires? I've read 80 -100 psi? Sounds like a lot! Thanks.
12-28-14, 01:25 AM
#54
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bay Area, Calif.
Posts: 7,239
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 659 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
6 Posts
I ride many type, style and sizes of bikes along with various wheel sizes. For touring road, I can clearly feel the least roll resistance, regardless of diameter or width using a tire with a slight raised center ridge having a 5mm width. Doesn't matter if its a fatty or skinny 700c, 26" or 27". Its not the answer for all applications or depending what a racer desires but for discussion of low rolling resistance.
As to the question in the comment just above, using 1 1/4" tires is perfectly fine in conjunction with 14mm wide rims as long as they are both 27", i.e. 630mm bead diameter. The maximum tire pressure should be indicated on the tire. I've used 1 1/4" tires at anywhere from 70 psi up to 110 psi depending on the circumstances.
12-28-14, 01:26 AM
#55
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bay Area, Calif.
Posts: 7,239
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 659 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
6 Posts
I ride many type, style and sizes of bikes along with various wheel sizes. For touring road, I can clearly feel the least roll resistance, regardless of diameter or width using a tire with a slight raised center ridge having a 5mm width. Doesn't matter if its a fatty or skinny 700c, 26" or 27". Its not the answer for all applications or depending what a racer desires but for discussion of low rolling resistance.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!to...ch/1ur1vrs8GDg
As to the question in the comment just above, using 1 1/4" tires is perfectly fine in conjunction with 14mm wide rims as long as they are both 27", i.e. 630mm bead diameter. The maximum tire pressure should be indicated on the tire. I've used 1 1/4" tires at anywhere from 70 psi up to 110 psi depending on the circumstances.
Sorry for the duplicate post.
12-28-14, 02:31 AM
#56
Banned.
Join Date: May 2011
Location: on the beach
Posts: 4,816
Bikes: '73 falcon sr, '76 grand record, '84 davidson
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 22 Times
in
17 Posts
I read with interest that one of you has 1 1/4 tires in the rear and 1 1/8 in the front. I have a Nishiki Ariel mountain bike, but I'm new to road cycling, and I just received a new to me 1981 SR Gran Course. I traded a violin for it.
The SR rims are Araya 27 x 1 1/4 (14 x 630), and the previous owner installed Vittoria Zuffino 27 x 1 1/8 (28-630) tires on each one. I've tried a search for tire sizes and came upon this thread. At the risk of being told that my wheels are obsolete and heading for obsolescence, is it acceptable to run 1 1/8 tires on 1 1/4 rims safely? I'm wondering why he didn't use 1 1/4 tires. In my search, I know that they are available. Also, what's the psi for these tires? I've read 80 -100 psi? Sounds like a lot! Thanks.
The SR rims are Araya 27 x 1 1/4 (14 x 630), and the previous owner installed Vittoria Zuffino 27 x 1 1/8 (28-630) tires on each one. I've tried a search for tire sizes and came upon this thread. At the risk of being told that my wheels are obsolete and heading for obsolescence, is it acceptable to run 1 1/8 tires on 1 1/4 rims safely? I'm wondering why he didn't use 1 1/4 tires. In my search, I know that they are available. Also, what's the psi for these tires? I've read 80 -100 psi? Sounds like a lot! Thanks.
normally, tire pressure is stated on the sidewall. high-pressure road bike tires are often rated around 100 psi, the pressure i always run my paselas (if not a tiny bit more).
12-28-14, 07:49 AM
#57
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NE Indiana
Posts: 8,687
Bikes: 2020 Masi Giramondo 700c; 2013 Lynskey Peloton; 1992 Giant Rincon; 1989 Dawes needs parts; 1985 Trek 660; 1985 Fuji Club; 1984 Schwinn Voyager; 1984 Miyata 612; 1977 Raleigh Competition GS
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1126 Post(s)
Liked 253 Times
in
204 Posts
I ride many type, style and sizes of bikes along with various wheel sizes. For touring road, I can clearly feel the least roll resistance, regardless of diameter or width using a tire with a slight raised center ridge having a 5mm width. Doesn't matter if its a fatty or skinny 700c, 26" or 27". Its not the answer for all applications or depending what a racer desires but for discussion of low rolling resistance.
Rolling Resistance of Bicycle Tires - Bike Tires
Again, these are tests that who knows what variables they introduced or whether or not they represent real simulated road like tests or what they did, but it's all I got.
12-28-14, 09:27 AM
#58
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 1,959
Bikes: Too many Bicycles to list
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 90 Post(s)
Liked 137 Times
in
45 Posts
A little history when/How the 700c clincher came to be,
Mavic Module-E rims were introduced in 1975. They were developed in conjunction with Michelin to work with their then new Elan tires. These rims came in 700c and 27" diameters. The 700c version had valve stem holes for presta valves while some of the 27' rims had larger holes for Schrader® valves. Module-E rims were nominal 20mm wide vs. the 22, 23, or 24mm wide alloy rims of the day. They had hooks or lips inside to secure the large beads on the Elan tires that prevented them from blowing off the rims at higher pressures of 90PSI+. These rims and tires were designed to offer Tubular (sewup) like performance in a clincher style tire. Michelin Elan tires were not very robust and had a lot of blowout problems. In early 1976 Wolber introduced their W20 series tire which were much better. The first version Module-E rims had the old red Mavic labels with a gold label with safety warnings. Rigida brought out their 1320 rims followed shortly by Super Champion's Gentleman rims. The 20mm width of these rims allowed cyclists to switch between sewups and clinchers without having to adjust their brakes (700c size only).
To me I really don't consider 27" tires to be obsolete because you can still buy new tires in that size. Now when I think of a tire size that is really Obsolete I think of my motorcycles that I have, 1978 thru 1981 Honda XL/XR 250 & 500cc Enduro/Dual Sport motorcycles that used a 23" front wheel when everybody else was running 18" to 21" wheels. There are now only two tires available & even one of them is starting to disappear, a CS off road knobby for soft terrain for the XR's and a Bridgestone Little Wing DOT Street legal tire for the XL's like the originals that were oem on them.
Glenn
Mavic Module-E rims were introduced in 1975. They were developed in conjunction with Michelin to work with their then new Elan tires. These rims came in 700c and 27" diameters. The 700c version had valve stem holes for presta valves while some of the 27' rims had larger holes for Schrader® valves. Module-E rims were nominal 20mm wide vs. the 22, 23, or 24mm wide alloy rims of the day. They had hooks or lips inside to secure the large beads on the Elan tires that prevented them from blowing off the rims at higher pressures of 90PSI+. These rims and tires were designed to offer Tubular (sewup) like performance in a clincher style tire. Michelin Elan tires were not very robust and had a lot of blowout problems. In early 1976 Wolber introduced their W20 series tire which were much better. The first version Module-E rims had the old red Mavic labels with a gold label with safety warnings. Rigida brought out their 1320 rims followed shortly by Super Champion's Gentleman rims. The 20mm width of these rims allowed cyclists to switch between sewups and clinchers without having to adjust their brakes (700c size only).
To me I really don't consider 27" tires to be obsolete because you can still buy new tires in that size. Now when I think of a tire size that is really Obsolete I think of my motorcycles that I have, 1978 thru 1981 Honda XL/XR 250 & 500cc Enduro/Dual Sport motorcycles that used a 23" front wheel when everybody else was running 18" to 21" wheels. There are now only two tires available & even one of them is starting to disappear, a CS off road knobby for soft terrain for the XR's and a Bridgestone Little Wing DOT Street legal tire for the XL's like the originals that were oem on them.
Glenn
Last edited by Glennfordx4; 12-28-14 at 09:53 AM.
12-28-14, 11:47 AM
#59
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 5
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
It makes a person think twice about getting into vintage hobbies. So far my cycles still have parts availability, as do my guitars and my two Harleys. But when it comes to certain vehicles, like my 1978 Dodge Chinook, not only parts, but finding 16.5" tires was a chore and expensive.
Ok then, so I can ride my SR safely with the 1 1/8 tires on my 1 1/4 rims safely, and I can even install 1" if I wanted to. That's the important part for me. Thanks a bunch!
I'll post some nice photos in the other thread soon.
Ok then, so I can ride my SR safely with the 1 1/8 tires on my 1 1/4 rims safely, and I can even install 1" if I wanted to. That's the important part for me. Thanks a bunch!
I'll post some nice photos in the other thread soon.
12-28-14, 11:57 AM
#60
Banned
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 6,480
Mentioned: 93 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1361 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 424 Times
in
283 Posts
This was exactly the feature that Jobst Brandt railed against in the case of the old Specialized Touring tire - and precisely because the effect of that raised center strip was to increase the rolling resistance contrary to Specialized's marketing claims. That's what I would expect to happen since that added bit of rubber would be compressed and squirm out to the sides at the contact patch as the tire rotates, thereby absorbing energy and increasing resistance.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!to...ch/1ur1vrs8GDg
.
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!to...ch/1ur1vrs8GDg
.
More: Try a mid-weight all -slick- Hutchinson at high pressure vs. an older Specialized or heavier wider Michelin tour tire with this ridge. I can speak for it from actually doing. The Hutchinson may stick better or handle better on specific surface (which may be important for racing) but I know from experience the tour type mentioned will roll farther along. Again, for discussion of rolling resistance and disregarding tire size and application. However, if we discuss application, surely a racing slick has its reasons and place. But we also have a tandem and where I've tried many styles of road tires. Lightweight slicks are the worst. I've also had tires melt from friction and hot tarmac. Grippy for criterium but otherwise useless.
Choice of tire for application and comfort level is probably the most notable thing on a bike. Its fairly easy for me to judge the difference between a fast or slow roller. No real scientific data is needed. One can do their own demonstration and mark out spacing distance on a side road. Get up to speed as noted on your bike computer and at a designated spot, start the coast. Swap tires, do the same routine and compare. Try various pressures.
That said, its always worth looking into new concept or tire designs. I've been using the Tufo tubular/clincher's and for whatever their secret is, I'm becoming a fan of them. But that's for another thread. Cheer's-
Last edited by crank_addict; 12-28-14 at 12:05 PM.
12-28-14, 02:56 PM
#62
Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 9,194
Bikes: Cheltenham-Pedersen racer, Boulder F/S Paris-Roubaix, Varsity racer, '52 Christophe, '62 Continental, '92 Merckx, '75 Limongi, '76 Presto, '72 Gitane SC, '71 Schwinn SS, etc.
Mentioned: 132 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1565 Post(s)
Liked 1,296 Times
in
866 Posts
The bike mentioned was an SR Gran Course with Araya rims labeled as "27x1-1/4".
I bought my second Gran Course bike yesterday, it's the second one with the same, narrow, eyeleted Araya doublewall rims labeled as "27x1-1/4".
In my opinion, these rims are optimized for the narrowest of 27" tires that are available today, namely the myriad "27x1-1/8" tires (and Pasela "27x1" tires), all of which measure about 25-26mm as-mounted (at rated pressure, and after 24 hours).
So there really is no worry of installing a too-narrow tire on these narrow Araya rims (which measure 20mm, at most, at the outside brake tracks).
As for the center-ribbed tires, where a narrow rib is sharply-stepped or narrower than the actual contact patch, these handle "funny" on the front wheel before the rib gets worn and squashed down, especially at higher pressures.
I would expect that the tire casing would also flex more sharply in the vicinity of the rib, which would intuitively cause an increase in rolling resistance.
I believe it is for these two reasons that a tapered-thickness tread cap has taken the place of the stepped center ridge on most of today's tires.
The narrow rib did always seem to wear down very quickly on the rear wheel, at which time I used to rotate the tires front-to-rear in order to regain a more neutral steering feel.
A raised strip of 10mm or greater width does seem to greatly extend the tread wear life of an otherwise-similar tire, so I like this style for training purposes on the rear wheel.
I bought my second Gran Course bike yesterday, it's the second one with the same, narrow, eyeleted Araya doublewall rims labeled as "27x1-1/4".
In my opinion, these rims are optimized for the narrowest of 27" tires that are available today, namely the myriad "27x1-1/8" tires (and Pasela "27x1" tires), all of which measure about 25-26mm as-mounted (at rated pressure, and after 24 hours).
So there really is no worry of installing a too-narrow tire on these narrow Araya rims (which measure 20mm, at most, at the outside brake tracks).
As for the center-ribbed tires, where a narrow rib is sharply-stepped or narrower than the actual contact patch, these handle "funny" on the front wheel before the rib gets worn and squashed down, especially at higher pressures.
I would expect that the tire casing would also flex more sharply in the vicinity of the rib, which would intuitively cause an increase in rolling resistance.
I believe it is for these two reasons that a tapered-thickness tread cap has taken the place of the stepped center ridge on most of today's tires.
The narrow rib did always seem to wear down very quickly on the rear wheel, at which time I used to rotate the tires front-to-rear in order to regain a more neutral steering feel.
A raised strip of 10mm or greater width does seem to greatly extend the tread wear life of an otherwise-similar tire, so I like this style for training purposes on the rear wheel.
12-28-14, 03:41 PM
#63
Sunshine
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,618
Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10970 Post(s)
Liked 7,498 Times
in
4,194 Posts
The 27" wheel size is obsolete. It is no longer in common usage- there are no major bicycles in mass production that use the 27" wheel size. That's a great example of obsolete. The tires that are currently being produced are pretty much only for existing bicycles with 27" wheels. Obsolete.
ob·so·lete
ˌäbsəˈlēt/
adjective
no longer produced or used; out of date.
"the disposal of old and obsolete machinery"
synonyms: outdated, out of date, outmoded, old-fashioned, démodé, passé, out of fashion;
ob·so·lete
ˌäbsəˈlēt/
adjective
no longer produced or used; out of date.
"the disposal of old and obsolete machinery"
synonyms: outdated, out of date, outmoded, old-fashioned, démodé, passé, out of fashion;
wheel set. Reused some hubs and it cost $55 total for the rims, db spokes, and nips.
When new product is still being offered, it's tough to call said product obsolete.
12-28-14, 05:03 PM
#64
Ride, Wrench, Swap, Race
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Northern California
Posts: 9,194
Bikes: Cheltenham-Pedersen racer, Boulder F/S Paris-Roubaix, Varsity racer, '52 Christophe, '62 Continental, '92 Merckx, '75 Limongi, '76 Presto, '72 Gitane SC, '71 Schwinn SS, etc.
Mentioned: 132 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1565 Post(s)
Liked 1,296 Times
in
866 Posts
There are perhaps too many bikes still out there, either with 27" wheels or 27" wheel requirement due to brake reach.
There are a lot of good used 27" wheels still "inventoried" by us collectors of bike parts, and we're reluctant to not get some cash or usage out of them.
Some of my 27" holdings are particularly nice wheelsets that can make quite an upgrade to the function and aesthetics of many of the older bikes, so new 27" tires will be needed long into the future.
27" is obsolete as a build standard for new frames and bikes, but obviously has a future in used bikes and tire and wheel inventories.
I rode today on 27x1-1/8" tires at a comfy 75psi.
There are a lot of good used 27" wheels still "inventoried" by us collectors of bike parts, and we're reluctant to not get some cash or usage out of them.
Some of my 27" holdings are particularly nice wheelsets that can make quite an upgrade to the function and aesthetics of many of the older bikes, so new 27" tires will be needed long into the future.
27" is obsolete as a build standard for new frames and bikes, but obviously has a future in used bikes and tire and wheel inventories.
I rode today on 27x1-1/8" tires at a comfy 75psi.
12-28-14, 05:52 PM
#65
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NE Indiana
Posts: 8,687
Bikes: 2020 Masi Giramondo 700c; 2013 Lynskey Peloton; 1992 Giant Rincon; 1989 Dawes needs parts; 1985 Trek 660; 1985 Fuji Club; 1984 Schwinn Voyager; 1984 Miyata 612; 1977 Raleigh Competition GS
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1126 Post(s)
Liked 253 Times
in
204 Posts
There are perhaps too many bikes still out there, either with 27" wheels or 27" wheel requirement due to brake reach.
There are a lot of good used 27" wheels still "inventoried" by us collectors of bike parts, and we're reluctant to not get some cash or usage out of them.
Some of my 27" holdings are particularly nice wheelsets that can make quite an upgrade to the function and aesthetics of many of the older bikes, so new 27" tires will be needed long into the future.
27" is obsolete as a build standard for new frames and bikes, but obviously has a future in used bikes and tire and wheel inventories.
I rode today on 27x1-1/8" tires at a comfy 75psi.
There are a lot of good used 27" wheels still "inventoried" by us collectors of bike parts, and we're reluctant to not get some cash or usage out of them.
Some of my 27" holdings are particularly nice wheelsets that can make quite an upgrade to the function and aesthetics of many of the older bikes, so new 27" tires will be needed long into the future.
27" is obsolete as a build standard for new frames and bikes, but obviously has a future in used bikes and tire and wheel inventories.
I rode today on 27x1-1/8" tires at a comfy 75psi.
12-28-14, 06:14 PM
#66
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Bay Area, Calif.
Posts: 7,239
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 659 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 7 Times
in
6 Posts
12-28-14, 10:10 PM
#67
Extraordinary Magnitude
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Waukesha WI
Posts: 13,649
Bikes: 1978 Trek TX700; 1978/79 Trek 736; 1984 Specialized Stumpjumper Sport; 1984 Schwinn Voyageur SP; 1985 Trek 620; 1985 Trek 720; 1986 Trek 400 Elance; 1987 Schwinn High Sierra; 1990 Miyata 1000LT
Mentioned: 84 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2608 Post(s)
Liked 1,703 Times
in
937 Posts
The only reason there are still 27" rims and tires in production is to fit old bikes. It goes to the definition of "obsolete."
That doesn't mean that 27" wheels don't work or they're not preferable for situations or by certain people. Again, out of my 5 "big" wheeled bikes- 4 of them have 27s, 3 of those are world class touring bikes. The other one I changed from 700c TO 27" just to fit a set of brakes. It doesn't change the fact that the 27" wheel size is obsolete.
__________________
*Recipient of the 2006 Time Magazine "Person Of The Year" Award*
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
12-29-14, 12:05 AM
#68
Sunshine
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,618
Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo
Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10970 Post(s)
Liked 7,498 Times
in
4,194 Posts
"I do not think that word means what you think it means" - Inigo Montoya
Obsolete means 'no longer produced or used; out of date'. At least thats what the Google says.
27" rims, wheelsets, and tires are all still both produced and used.
You can buy new 27" wheelsets for $100 on amazon. Aluminum rim and all.
Or you can build a 27" wheel.
And there are plenty of tires available. I even have 2 different brands of 27" folding tires as spares for camp touring. You can buy $12 cheap 27 x 1 1/4 tires. You can buy $20 Panaracers. You can buy $40 Swables.
All this stuff is still both produced and used.
This is like you calling the corded home telephone obsolete. Is it popular still?- not even close to 30 years ago. Are they still made, used, and work though?- yup.
...actually, the corded home phone could be considered closer to obsolete than 27" wheels and tires. That's what I get for making a comparison!
Obsolete means 'no longer produced or used; out of date'. At least thats what the Google says.
27" rims, wheelsets, and tires are all still both produced and used.
You can buy new 27" wheelsets for $100 on amazon. Aluminum rim and all.
Or you can build a 27" wheel.
And there are plenty of tires available. I even have 2 different brands of 27" folding tires as spares for camp touring. You can buy $12 cheap 27 x 1 1/4 tires. You can buy $20 Panaracers. You can buy $40 Swables.
All this stuff is still both produced and used.
This is like you calling the corded home telephone obsolete. Is it popular still?- not even close to 30 years ago. Are they still made, used, and work though?- yup.
...actually, the corded home phone could be considered closer to obsolete than 27" wheels and tires. That's what I get for making a comparison!
12-29-14, 01:32 AM
#69
Extraordinary Magnitude
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Waukesha WI
Posts: 13,649
Bikes: 1978 Trek TX700; 1978/79 Trek 736; 1984 Specialized Stumpjumper Sport; 1984 Schwinn Voyageur SP; 1985 Trek 620; 1985 Trek 720; 1986 Trek 400 Elance; 1987 Schwinn High Sierra; 1990 Miyata 1000LT
Mentioned: 84 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2608 Post(s)
Liked 1,703 Times
in
937 Posts
"I do not think that word means what you think it means" - Inigo Montoya
Obsolete means 'no longer produced or used; out of date'. At least thats what the Google says.
27" rims, wheelsets, and tires are all still both produced and used.
You can buy new 27" wheelsets for $100 on amazon. Aluminum rim and all.
Or you can build a 27" wheel.
And there are plenty of tires available. I even have 2 different brands of 27" folding tires as spares for camp touring. You can buy $12 cheap 27 x 1 1/4 tires. You can buy $20 Panaracers. You can buy $40 Swables.
All this stuff is still both produced and used.
This is like you calling the corded home telephone obsolete. Is it popular still?- not even close to 30 years ago. Are they still made, used, and work though?- yup.
...actually, the corded home phone could be considered closer to obsolete than 27" wheels and tires. That's what I get for making a comparison!
Obsolete means 'no longer produced or used; out of date'. At least thats what the Google says.
27" rims, wheelsets, and tires are all still both produced and used.
You can buy new 27" wheelsets for $100 on amazon. Aluminum rim and all.
Or you can build a 27" wheel.
And there are plenty of tires available. I even have 2 different brands of 27" folding tires as spares for camp touring. You can buy $12 cheap 27 x 1 1/4 tires. You can buy $20 Panaracers. You can buy $40 Swables.
All this stuff is still both produced and used.
This is like you calling the corded home telephone obsolete. Is it popular still?- not even close to 30 years ago. Are they still made, used, and work though?- yup.
...actually, the corded home phone could be considered closer to obsolete than 27" wheels and tires. That's what I get for making a comparison!
The bicycle industry as a whole no longer designs bicycles around the 27" wheel. No new bicycles are produced using 27" wheels. Therefore, the 27" wheel size is obsolete.
That's all.
__________________
*Recipient of the 2006 Time Magazine "Person Of The Year" Award*
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
12-29-14, 02:00 AM
#70
working on my sandal tan
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,629
Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)
Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3871 Post(s)
Liked 2,568 Times
in
1,579 Posts
27" wheels are certainly out of date, if nothing else. Reaching back to an earlier point in this thread, is anyone willing to argue that the Model T is not obsolete, since a couple of replacement parts are still being made? 
12-29-14, 02:19 AM
#71
Senior Member
12-29-14, 03:20 AM
#72
Senior Member
Ten years ago, the 650B(584) tire was obsolete; only the efforts of a few enthusiast cyclists kept it alive in France and Japan. In the US Grant Petersen of Rivendell revived it. Now there are a lot of new rims and tires available. Although there is no ideal tire size for all riders, the 650B (584) size is just about perfect for 50 to 55 cm bikes.
One of the problems I have with 27""(630) wheels is that there are no tires wider than 11/4 . That, plus the fact than it is difficult to fit big tires and fenders on a lot of frames.
Here is a thought experiment: just imagine if the early mountain bikers used old Raleigh three speeds instead of Schwinn cruisers, and then built the first Mountain bikes using the 650A(590) size tire. What would be the most popular sized tire in the World today?
One of the problems I have with 27""(630) wheels is that there are no tires wider than 11/4 . That, plus the fact than it is difficult to fit big tires and fenders on a lot of frames.
Here is a thought experiment: just imagine if the early mountain bikers used old Raleigh three speeds instead of Schwinn cruisers, and then built the first Mountain bikes using the 650A(590) size tire. What would be the most popular sized tire in the World today?
12-29-14, 03:53 AM
#73
Banned.
Join Date: May 2011
Location: on the beach
Posts: 4,816
Bikes: '73 falcon sr, '76 grand record, '84 davidson
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 22 Times
in
17 Posts
things far more obsolete than 27" wheels:
- land lines
- vcr (blockbuster)
- cd's and pc diskettes
- phone books
- bicycle how-to manuals
- personal checks
- fax
- cottered cranks
and still, none of these things is obsolete in the strict sense.
- land lines
- vcr (blockbuster)
- cd's and pc diskettes
- phone books
- bicycle how-to manuals
- personal checks
- fax
- cottered cranks
and still, none of these things is obsolete in the strict sense.
12-29-14, 04:37 AM
#74
aka Tom Reingold
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Posts: 40,509
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
Mentioned: 511 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7353 Post(s)
Liked 2,480 Times
in
1,439 Posts
@ironwood, excellent points about how obsolete things become non-obsolete and how 559mm wheels returned to popularity through happenstance. I don't currently have any bikes with 559's, but it's a lucky thing they became popular, since they are a good size for small adults. 700c are too big for them, and makers have crammed those wheels into small bikes and made compromises doing so.
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
12-29-14, 08:23 AM
#75
spondylitis.org
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fleetwood, PA, USA
Posts: 1,003
Bikes: '84 Colnago Super; '90 Bridgestone MB-1; '81 Trek 930; '01 Cinelli Supercorsa; '62 Ideor Asso; '87 Tommasini Super Prestige; '13 Lynskey R2300; '84 Serotta Nova Special; '94 Litespeed Catalyst; etc.
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 121 Post(s)
Liked 97 Times
in
63 Posts
Regarding mountain bike tire sizes - the bike industry is prone to group-think, and manufacturers were convinced a few years ago that everyone would want a 29er. Riders were even convinced that they needed 29ers, so that's what they tended to get. Didn't matter that 26ers handle better and faster in single track and on difficult terrain. Subsequently, the industry ended up with fat-tired bikes that kept momentum up on long straights and fire-roads common out West, but didn't work so well in tight confines. Hence the move to 27.5", as some kind of happy medium.
Funny - I recall Cannondale (formerly a pioneer in the industry, when they were still building in south-central PA) making "Beast" bikes with mixed 26/24 configuration. Scot Nicol of Ibis did the same thing with the Mountain Trials. There was a good reason for it - single track tends to require fast handling and short wheelbases.
I still ride twenty-year-old mountain bikes, and they still work really well here in PA - despite the fact that I have only 2" of fork travel and "tiny" wheels.
Funny - I recall Cannondale (formerly a pioneer in the industry, when they were still building in south-central PA) making "Beast" bikes with mixed 26/24 configuration. Scot Nicol of Ibis did the same thing with the Mountain Trials. There was a good reason for it - single track tends to require fast handling and short wheelbases.
I still ride twenty-year-old mountain bikes, and they still work really well here in PA - despite the fact that I have only 2" of fork travel and "tiny" wheels.