Air

Haven't read it yet - will at some point.

Angre Agassi et. al: (Because I need hard numbers to start from )

1 - Based on those numbers have I actually been starving myself by keeping a sub 2500 calorie diet?

2 - Plus, that 2828 calorie figure I calculated above is actually for an off day (since I hope I'd never sit in front of a computer for 17 horus a day). On a day where I would actually be cycling that number will certainly top 4000 (2800 + 600 cycling burned * 2)?

3 - Given both of those are right, how does that fit into the paradigm of 3500 calories = 1 pound of fat, so a deficit of 3500 calories per week should be 1 pound of fat lost per week? If I take any calories off that 2828 I'm then in starvation mode, right?

[The oatmeal sounds like a great snack - I'll try that soon!]

Thanks guys - sorry if it seems like I'm beating a horse here but these numbers are really high and they scare me!

DaBigRague

OK, I need to ask this.

I have been working out etc like everyone else. I am trying to ride more but to be honest its easier for me to get to a gym, then to the lake or bike paths. I stress this because these are the safest areas where I live and the best place to guarantee that I do not pop a tire.

Anyway, here is my question?

How important is heart rate tracking and its impact to weight loss?

How does it help? Does it make you more effecient?

What is a good resource for heart rate tracking and programs for wanna be endurance athletes?

Does anyone have a heart rate monitor and if you do what type? I would guess I need a larger than normal strap as I am a clyde!


I never really thought about this as a factor but some people swear by it. As a kid and most of college I never really cared about heart rate. I knew when I was being pushed to the edge and I know when I am tired or winded.

I also know that on a tread mill or a bike I am clocking in at 130 - 155 on my heart rate which according to the 220 - my age rule is not where close to my max but according to the charts is a good fat burning zone. (health club bike and treadmill)

As for resting I have no idea. I know when I get on the tread mill before running the hand thing reads anywhere from 78 - 90, which I know is not resting but I just thought I would throw that in there.

Any advice as to if I should focus more on this, or just keep chugging along?

Thanks

mike

Air

I'll chirp in here a little. This site has a great breakdown of what each range means. I've heard of people backing off of their exercise and losing more weight because they burn off more fat.

There was a great site someone found in the original Clydes thread but I can't find it that is like fitday but for cyclists. The HRM usually are adjustable and stretch - I'd check with the model you're thinking of and ask them about your chest size first to be on the safe side. Could probably rig something with elastic from a sewing store.

Mike_Morrow

There is no "official" syndrome that is starvation mode, it is not like a switch is flipped and all of a sudden you are starving. Oddly enough one of the biggest factors in slowing our metabolism is our weight loss itself. Studies have shown that in general the more over weight a person is the higher their basal metabolism.

You also have to realize you are going to lose muscle along with the fat during this journey. A rough approximation is 1/4 to 1/3 of every pound you lose will be muscle. Much of the muscle you lose will be skeletal muscle that is no longer required to carry your girth. In my case I know there is no way I could walk around with 230 pounds on my back, but somehow I did when I weighed 400 pounds.

I have been active in online weight loss communities for several years now, while I am doctor and am only speaking from my personal experience and the experience of those I have seen who have been successful at losing a great deal of weight. You don't need anywhere near 2800 calories a day to keep yourself from a starvation mode. My daily average for a week was around 1750 when I was in a loss mode, another 6'2" male I know who lost 130 pounds kept his right at 2000 a day. Both of us engaged in hard cardio for at least an hour a day as well as regular strength training.

If you have a lot of weight to lose a person simply has to restrict their calories. The problem with most calorie needs calculators is they are very "off" for those of us that have a lot of weight to lose. The farther a person gets from a "normal" weight the more off those calculators tend to get.


The way I picked my caloric target was to figure out my basil metabolic rate for my TARGET weight and eat to that calorie level ignoring any lifestyle exercise. I don't think I would want to try and ride a century while at that caloric intake level but I was VERY active, I had energy to live my life and the weight came off.

Hope this helps.

bdinger

I've found that you can look at every caloric calculator in the world, but none are a substitute for listening to your body. Your body knows best (sorry for sounding cheesy..) what it needs, and will tell you.

For me, I was in a heap of trouble waiting to happen. I was beyond morbidly obese, and needed to change that. So I went on a 800 calorie/day liquid diet. Basically 800 calories will keep your body from attacking the organs (with proper nutrients) and instead focus on fat and muscle. I dropped 160 pounds quite rapidly, and saved my life in the process.

I've kept it off for a year, and continue to lose weight. For me it varies now that I'm back in loss mode. I've lost 29lbs over three weeks, with days ranging from 1200 to 2500 calories. I simply listen to my body. When I'm hungry, I eat. I don't eat a LOT, but I eat.

When I feel myself start to "bonk" energy-wise, I eat. I can't stand the feeling of pedaling along a straightaway at 16mph, where I knew I did 25mph the day before when I was filled with energy. I can't, and I won't sacrifice my excercise performance just in the name of weight loss. So far it's worked fabulously, looking at my FitDay log my weight loss has been a straight down slope. No ups and downs, basically a completely linear graph. It's very cool, and I feel amazing.

I'll take today for an example. I ate well, and conservatively yesterday. Plenty of energy off of just 1500 calories. Breakfast today was a 240 calorie granola bar and diet dew. However, already at 12:30p I'm feeling my energy sapping away. I have a 30 mile ride planned tonight, and I need that energy, so I'm going to hit up a salad bar and get the good energy flowing. I probably will exceed my 1800 calorie/day "limit" today, but I'm also going to be doing nearly double my daily mileage (I usually do 17 fast-paced miles/day).

I can't stress listening to your body enough. When I was off of liquids and back onto food, and also heavily working out, there was a stint where I was losing very minimal numbers. On 1200 calories a day (I *NEVER* topped that either) I was only losing 1-2lbs a week. Experiementing, I upped it to 1800 and started dropping 4-6. I went from being hungry all the time and sapped for energy to being supercharged and out of bed the second my alarm went off.

Remember, everyone is different. Find what works for YOU and YOUR body, then go from there.

Air

I've been chewing on all of these posts for a while and truthfully I'm still really confused about nutrition. I'm probably just really dense.

In the meantime - another question partly related. Today I went on about a 12 mile ride, over a bridge and with traffic/starting/stopping and walking up stairs my calculations came out to about 700 calories burned.

What does that translate in terms of fat? If I'm keeping track of my calories and fat intake can I cancel out a fatty meal by riding? Say if the formula of 9 grams of calories = 1 gram of fat holds true how is that 700 burned calories distributed?

SimonEd

Just work out your daily needs and then take off 1000 calories worth in fats and carbs and your fat% will take care of itself. If you go too low you will lose too much lean body mass. I have been on this for 6 weeks and have lost about 6 pounds. I also run and lift weights though so I play with the carbs a little more due to its Anaerobic nature and it being fuelled differently than cardio exercise.

Anyway, on this plan you will lose about 100g a day.

If you can jog then do that, it will burn more calories fastert than a bike (not as much fun though) it also mixes things up and you can increase your bone density from it.

If you can find a place to lift do that too, remember the bigger your LBM the more calories you are burning all the time.

While its supposidly impossible to build muscle while on a negative calorie diet, you will find that you will be gaining good weight dispite the low calorie intake, just make sure you are eating primarily low glycemic index carbs and a good low animal fat protein.

robtown

The Burn the Fat, Feed the Muscle program I've used recommends using a single measurment caliper. The measurement is of the skin fat near your appendix. After getting consistent measurments it gives you a fat percentage. You use that to calculate fat weight. Lean weight is everything else.

robtown

You have your measurments off - 4 calories per gram of carbs or protein and 9 calories per gram of fat.
If you burned 700 calories in an hour and your needs are 200 calories per hour, then you have 500 calories you could eat. If you burn 700 calories a lot will come out of glycogen stores in your body. If and when that translates to fat it will come from wherever your body chooses. Many think that fat usually comes of in the last on first off order. For me, and probably most men, the belly fat is last.

Tom Stormcrowe

Robtown, tha last fat to burn is belly fat all right, but not the fat external to the abdominal wall, but the brown fat internal to the ab. wall. If the intake matches the burn rate to maintain glycogen levels, hen the excess will burn from protein and fat stores. That's the reason we supplement with protein at about 1.5 grams/Kg body mass....to prevent LBM loss. This allows the body to stay in lipid metabolism primarily and lose weight.

1Kg fat = 7700kcals (1 kilocalorie = 1 food calorie)(1 lb = 3500 calories or Kcals)

I linked to the site I got the info from, bookmark it! It appears to have some fantastic resources!

SimonEd

Just to make it sound a little less painful, its 3 pints of protein drink from the top manufactuers. EAS for example, make a product called Myoplex that has 42g of protein per serving. If you can get into this its a great weight off your mind regarding maintaining LBM. Of course 1 pint of a watery choco drink on a cold morning isnt exactly appetizing, but its got to be done. This will cover someone with about 80Kgs / 180lbs of Lean Body Mass.

You can have more, but its probably wiser to supplement the protein drink with BCAA's to keep down the cost and the stress to the kidneys

Dont forget to hydrate, make carrying a water bottle, or at least having one at arms length par for the course. If you are not peeing like a race horse all the time, you need more!

BasicJim

Is there a book that breaks this down in simple terms? I am trying to understand all this and I understand my intake needs to be X calories, of which I should be taking in 30/60/10.

What foods help me meet that? I know I should be staying away from white breads, going with whole grain breads, whole wheat pasta, brown rice, right? What else? Anyone know of a good site to see what to eat?

Mike_Morrow

Jim,

Whole grains are better than more refined grains but you don't have to eat wheat bread, whole wheat pasta and brown rice. The simple fact is you need to "Take in less calories than you burn" how you choose to do that is what YOU need to figure out. You need some type of food plan you can be consistent with and maintain for a protracted period of time. What works for others here might not work for you, not because the plan doesn't work but because YOU can't stick to it. It is all about eating less and moving more. Whatever YOUR program ends being it needs to work for YOU it also needs to be something that you can do day in and day out and not feel "terribly" deprived.

Don't buy into folks who will tell you that one plan is so much better than another for losing weight, as long as they are both fairly balanced, restrict your calories and don't have you doing odd things like eating 27 grapefruits a day any plan you can consistently follow will likely work for you.

Tom Stormcrowe

Jim, Mike said it better than I might have. You have the general idea down quite well, actually.

Here are a couple of resources that are reputable and reliable:
https://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/
https://www.fns.usda.gov/nutritionlink/
https://www.mypyramid.gov/

These are US Government sites and quite good.

BasicJim

Thanks Mike,

I have been watching my calorie intake and find myself at the "top of my intake limit" some days, but most of the time I am what I fear maybe too low. I am trying to find foods that will maximize the nutrition with the lowest calorie count.

My biggest fear right now is not taking in enough calories and losing muscle rather than fat. I have gone from 250lbs to 212lbs through cycling and not changing my terrible diet, but I did the same thing last year, then when winter hits, I don't ride and I keep eating like I am riding. So now I am trying to keep active over the winter (first snowflakes today!) and I am trying to cut down on my calorie intake.

I am keeping between 1800 and 2250 calories and exercising at least an hour a day. Sometimes it's walking to the grocery store (5mi total) some times running 3 miles, and sometimes hitting the trainer. During the summer I ride at least an hour a day, then 3-4 hrs/day on the weekend.

My goal is to go to Hell Week and be below 190 lbs.

Thanks for everyone in here being so inspirational.

momod

someone already got this im sure but I use the accumeasure single point caliper. They should be withing 1% of the gold standard when done correctly, but more importantly it will give you a consistent readings that will help you gauge your progress.


https://www.accumeasurefitness.com/pr...tness3000.html

the best way to figure BMR is to use the Katch Mcardle formula.. you will need LBM for that.

BMR (men and women) = 370 + (21.6 X lean mass in kg)

then multiply by your activity factor.

Activity factor

Sedentary = BMR X 1.2 (little or no exercise, desk job)
Lightly active = BMR X 1.375 (light exercise/sports 1-3 days/wk)
Mod. active = BMR X 1.55 (moderate exercise/sports 3-5 days/wk)
Very active = BMR X 1.725 (hard exercise/sports 6-7 days/wk)
Extr. Active = BMR X 1.9 (hard daily exercise/sports & physical job or 2 X day training, marathon, football camp.


Things to remember.

chart your progress weekly.
Its not about weight, its about your lbm to fat ratio.
eat 5-6 meals throughout the day
remain in a total 5-10% max cal deficet, too low and your metabolism will slow
always eat hi glycemic carbs with a protein
try to eat whole foods with high thermic value
If you have to eat your hi glycemic foods post workout
Do your cardio fasted before breakfast if weight loss is your goal
drink lots of water.
Strength train

NEVER EVER eat..

trans fats
refined sugar
fried foods


with strength training and a good diet you can keep most of your LBM. I went from 226 @ 24% to 205 @ 10% in a year following these guidelines and some serious cardio.

226*.24= 53.76 lbs fat and 172 lbm to 205*.10= 20.05 and 175 lbm so I know it can be done and I was 36 at that time. Its just a matter of discipline, you can have any body you want!

momod

best book ever for teaching laymen nutrition..

https://www.burnthefat.com/


Tom is a little sensational but its the real deal and he teaches you how it all works, you will never diet again. You will just eat well.

Air

Peanut Butter - good or bad? 2 tablespoons is not that much but it's loaded in fat. I finished a ride yesterday and had peanut butter on top of a banana but it actually sent my fat allowance over.

[Thanks for the info above; don't know how 'grams' got in there before calories but it wasn't supposed to! ]

momod

not necessarily bad post workout its just very dense from a calorie standpoint and contains alot of sodium

Grim

Here are my before and afters. The before is about 7 years ago before I hit my heaviest at 240 this Feb and before I had a Heart attack 5 years ago. I made some life choices and bicycle commuting for the health benefits this year was what has been the biggest help.


About 7-8 years ago somewhere around 230-235lb in a XL shirt



Today at 207lb in a large shirt.

Air

Hey Grim!

Those pics aren't coming through for me but you probably want this thread anyway

lunchbox1972

First the disclaimer: I'm no expert, no doctor, this is only information that has worked for me.

April 30th 2008, I had a heart attack. I was 35 and I left the hospital on May 2nd after having 2 stents put in to clear out 90% blockages in my right coronary artery, I weighed 262 pounds and I'm 5'10". I was/am overweight. I was active before, hiking and such, but not on a regular basis. I set a goal to get to 215 pounds, I've since revised that and will be heading slowly for 200.

This morning, Aug 21st (my 14 year wedding anniversary), I weighed 216.5. That is 45.5 pounds in about 3.5 months. It's not all water, nor is it all muscle weight.

I have lost about 5 inches from my belly and at least 3 inches from my hips, 2 inches from my neck and I've added to my quads and lost about 1.5 inches of fat on my calves. I've had to take 2 links out of my watches, I've lost about an inch in my wrist. I've also taking about 3 inches off my chest. By biceps have lost about 1.5 inches, but my forearms have remained the same. According to several sites and an body fat tester, I sit at about 23%, I'd like to see 15%, or so. That goes with the 200 pounds, it should be fairly close.

I got out of the Army in January of 96 and I weighed 205 pounds, not super lean, but not fat either. Overweight by their standards, but I also taped under the body fat limit. A lot under the limit.

Enough of the history. I knew what I should have been doing, but chose not to do it.

I follow the diet from my cardiologist. 30/30/40. 30% protein, 30% fat, 40% carbs, or as close as I can get to it. I also keep my saturated fat to less than 10% of total calories and sugars are kept very low as well. I use a website to monitor my food on a daily basis and I intake between 1800-2000 calories in a day, on average. There are times that I'm less and times that I'm more. I don't add calories back in for my commuting, or other workouts. I don't hardly eat fast food anymore and when I do it's only certain places that are able to meet my requirements.. Taco Bell will actually do this with 3 cruncy tacos, but I do Subway mostly.. Double stacked turkey, no cheese and lots of veggies. I also quit drinking regular soda. I used to drink 1000+ calories a day of the stuff.

I pretty much quit red meat, because of the cholesterol content, as well as dairy. I still eat them, just not very much. I eat lots of chicken, tuna, turkey, and salmon. I stay away from refined carbs (white bread, etc).

I'll give you a typical day, today:

Breakfast:

2 pieces of wheat toast with 2 tablespoons of peanut butter.
1 banana.

485 calories

Snack:

2 stalks celery, with 1 tablespoon of peanut butter.

120 calories

Lunch:

1 chicken breast
1 slice of wheat toast
2/3 cup of cottage cheese

467 calories

Dinner:

It's my anniversay, so I'll eat whatever we happen to get, but it will probably still be fairly healthy.

That so far gives me: 36% protein, 29% fat, and 35% carbs. I know my dinner will have more fat and carbs, or at least it most likely will.

The biggest problem I've had is that I have trouble eating 30% protein. I was only doing 20% or so, for awhile, because I was having trouble finding good high protein sources.. I've also added some fat back into my diet. From some things I've read, good fats are just that, good. The Mediteranian diet is fairly close to some of this.

Remember that I'm a commuter, so I have to be able to have things here, or take them on my back.. Normally I'd have brown rice and veggies for lunch, but I didn't have them ready for this mornings ride.

Just after my heart attack is when I had the greatest weight loss. In the 2 weeks I had off, before I had to go back to work, I lost almost 20 pounds, I was going 1 pound per day. I was very leary about what I would eat. I was probably on eating about 1200 calories a day. I was scared, which is a great motivator. I also did not excercise, except for some walking, during this time.

I started riding my bike around the beginning of June. I had rode previous to this event, but never farther than 5 miles. I started with 4 miles and averaged about 11 mph. I slowly worked my way up to about 6 miles, until I saw my cardiologist 6 weeks out. He gave me the thumbs up to go for all I want. Really, he didn't give me any limits. I started doing 10+ miles, then about the middle of July I went for a 30 mile ride with friends. I was averaging about 15 mph with my MTB and some Conti slicks.

I like it so much that I bought a 07 Felt Z80 and picked it up on August 1st, sort of a birthday present for myself. I started commuting to work on the 4th, about 20 miles a day, 3+ days a week (if I can). It's been 20 days since I got the bike and I have 180 miles on it. I love it. I averaged 19.8 mph to work this morning and I've cut between 10-15 minutes off my bike commute since I started 2 weeks ago. I do a 20-35 mile ride on the weekends and we are planning a 50 miler, I will work up to a century.

If you have any questions on diet, I'll tell you what has worked for me. I can't give you all kinds of formulas, or numbers, or anything like that.. Only the cold, hard, evidence of my fat loss. It may not work for everybody and you have to have the proper motivation.. It's actually very easy for me now, but the first month was kind of saddening..

Overall, I'm happy to be here and I count this event as a blessing in my life. Oviously it wasn't my time to go and I have some more things to accomplish here, I'm sure my wife and kids are happy about that.

This forum has been a great inspiration and the people are very friendly here.

Missbumble 

Lunchbox! great info! So glad that youa re here supporting us. Way to go on the revocery and food plan - Looking Good! when do we see before and after pics! OH and everyone ofcourse wants to see the bike...

lunchbox1972

Well, I can do pictures of the bike today, if I get the time. I have it here at work.. I can probably do before and after too. There are event pictures from work that will probably show some decent before.

I'll see what I can do..

Oh yeah, I also have a HRM. When I ride I try to keep my HR in the 150's while I'm spinning the pedals. I average about 147 bpm on a regular day. According to it, I burn just shy of 500 calories, each way.

I feel great, that's the most important thing. My cholesterol is lower than it's been in years, lower than I've ever seen it. When I went for a flight status physical, I was 21, my cholesterol was 496. The flight surgeon commented about me still being alive. I still didn't get it then. The lowest I saw it, before the heart attack, was 230 and I was on 80mg of Lipitor a day.. When I got admitted to the hospital my cholesterol was 319. 6 weeks later, it was 143.

I take 10/40 of Vytorin and 500mg of Niaspan each day. The 143 number came before the Niaspan and I have not had it tested since then. The Niaspan is to raise my good cholesterol, which was low, at 33. It should be higher than 40, the excercise that I'm doing should also raise it, as well as the tuna and salmon, among other things.

That reminds me.. I need to go have it checked and see where I'm at.

lunchbox1972

Edited for content.... Posted in other thread.