CraigB

I'm in the same battleship, John. After a day of failing to avoid the leftover candy at the office, and a couple of corn muffins that should have never been consumed, we went to a monthly symphony organization meeting in the evening, where the table was set with all kinds of cookies, cakes and goodies. There were a couple of big bowls of cut up fresh fruit, and I had some of that, but unfortunately I had too many other things along with it. I'm determined to do better the rest of the week, though I think I'll be lucky if I post any loss at all this weekend.

But, I can't beat myself up too badly over it. The trick, for me anyway, is to berate myself just enough to discourage this sort of behavior in the future, without crossing the line into "what's the point of even trying" territory. That's a fine line, and it's sometimes difficult to recognize. You can't just give yourself a free pass for this sort of thing, or you'd do it all the time. But at the same time you can't be so hard on yourself that you fall into that self-loathing trap.

john423

That's the key, 'cause it's very easy to cross the line into "why am I bothering, I'm just a big failure anyway" every time you backslide a little bit, especially when your weight goes up. Unless someone's dieting hard to meet some kind of time goal (and if you are, you might wanna rethink that plan), remember that this is less of a time-oriented process and more of a life-oriented process. Sure, we'd all like to drop XX pounds in XX weeks or by XX date, but life doesn't work that way sometimes. Especially around "social eating" holidays like Halloween, Thanksgiving and Christmas. Sometimes you just have to do your best when you can and take a hit occasionally.

I'm going to try to soften the blow of the pizza by eating as little as I can leading up to tonight. I should have a chicken breast before the pizza comes to help fill me up. But I by no means am gonna try to limit myself to two slices or some crap - that wouldn't work well at all. What happens will happen, and we'll deal from that point forward starting Wednesday.

jethro56 

Sayre Kulp: How do you feel about running Illinois? Well you're in the race now. I know you heart is set on going to Washington but you've been there, done that. You can add competing in "The Apprentice" and being paid to campaign for Republicans to your goals for 2011.

Just realized I'm trying to steal the thread. Sorry.

Neil_B

I suppose that makes me Karl Rove? :-)

Neil_B

So Sayre, has any of this discussion helped you?

jethro56 

Now that I'm partially sucessful in achieving my fitness goals, I get strange thoughts after some people say " You really look good." At first I feel flattered. Then I think "Don't get a big head over this. You've still got a long way to go." Then I drift into "This comment is actually anti-motivational." Sometimes, I start wondering if throwing me off-track is subconsciously what they're trying to do. I don't like that feeling. As I think about it now, I'm realizing that I can't know why they said it. I'm projecting something inside me to turn this into something bad.

Another brain-fart I have is when people say "Don't you feel better now?" For some reason I don't like it. I tend to get flippant and say something like "Right now I feel tired as I just got done working out." Why do I do this? This comment is from from people that are asking me about how I feel or just someone who doesn't know what to say. Instead I cut off the conversation. Maybe I don't know how I feel.

Lately I've been thinking about starting a weight loss support group at the Y. When I've suggested this to the staff they respond with "You mean like getting a nutritionist in to talk about eating properly?" I respond with "No I mean talking about how to deal with the psychological issues." I get blank stares in return. The facts of eating properly are easily learned. Actually doing this is the hard part for us.

Enough for now.

Neil_B

I'm not surprised at the stares. I get that too when I bring up 'getting the head right'. I've had people argue with me, and heatedly, that there should be no psychological baggage from the weight loss. They've all been people who were only a little overweight, or had lived overweight for a short period.

I recall one guy, a poster on Bike Forums, blowing up when I mentioned there are both gains and losses when you lose a large amount of weight. "What benefits did you have when you were fat!?" he shouted.

Well, for starters:

- you never need to think about what you are eating. Now I constantly do.
- you never need to work exercise into your daily routine. Now I do.
- you have a ready-made excuse for disappointments - "I didn't get the job because I'm fat. I didn't get the work done because I'm tired from being so fat. She turned me down for a date because I'm fat. etc." Lose weight and you don't have that anymore.
- clothes shopping was easier when I was 400 pounds. I simply went with what fit. I have a choice now. That involves decision making.
- you will always find people to pity you. Not now.
-

Neil_B

Do you think of yourself as a 433 pound fat guy or a 278 pound fat guy? That's a gear shift you need to make.

CraigB

Interesting distinction. I know the question wasn't directed to me, but I'll chime in anyway - it's what I do.

I still think of myself as a fat guy, but I think I can say with some degree of honesty that right now, most of that time I think of myself as a sub-220 fat guy. About the only time I don't make that "sub-220" distinction is when I've screwed up in my eating plan on a given day. When that happens, even though I'm still here in my sub-220 clothes, I swear I feel just as bloated and outsized as when I started, 80-some pounds ago. If someone wants to use that psychological phenomenon as the basis for their thesis, please have at it.

I figured out a few weeks ago that I probably won't be able to even begin to think of myself as something other than a fat guy, regardless of modifier, until I'm at a weight at which someone my height and build (5'-10" and broad-shouldered) can be viewed by others as more or less normal in appearance. Not necessarily svelte, or even fit, but at a weight where someone seeing me for the first time wouldn't think right off the bat "he's fat/heavy/stocky/could stand to lose a few pounds." I don't know if this is delusional thinking or not (it might not even be healthy), but it's an accurate reflection of where I am right now.

exile

Getting compliments can put anyone off. Especially when you have a lowered self esteem to begin with. When someone says "you look good" its a bit disarming. You first think positively about the experience, and then you begin thinking about the negative. "So you are saying I didn't look good before?"

The first thing I try to do is become conscious of the negative self talk. That seems to be the biggest hurdle for me. It seems to take place without being cognizant of it. It's like my subconscious is already sabotaging my thoughts. Which in turns will influence my behaviors and actions.

jethro56 

After my self-analysis of this morning I went into the Y and there was someone I'd gotten a compliment from a couple of weeks ago. I walked up to them and said "Thank you for the encouragement you gave me the other day. It surprized me and I don't always know how to take it." They smiled and said " I have my own demons to deal with and you inspire me." I felt really good,not flattered,but really good that someone else may benefit from my struggle.

Fed-Ex just arrived. Time to open my latest toy or torture. Just received a Kurt Kinetic Road Machine.

Tom Stormcrowe

jethro, part of it is you have issues dealing with compliments, because I'd bet beforehand, a compliment was a setup for the stinger. I know it was for me, and I'm always suspicious of the motivation, still. I have to actively stop and think through this cognitive behavior and remind myself that ultimately, even if it is a setup for the stinger, it's not relevant in my world. I know what my achievements are, and beyond that, it really doesn't matter.

Daspydyr 

You bring up an interesting distinction. I felt very comfortable at a heavier weight, i just didn't get around very well.

Loosing weight left me feeling weak and listless at first. Then I would have highs and lows emotionally as I adjusted to lower weights, then feel crappy if I put some weight back on. Then I would feel weak on a bike ride and get mad because I felt I was loosing strength with the weight loss, and sometimes I probably did. Then my wife would feel threatened because I was loosing weight faster than she was.

The emo ups and downs are hard. I bet that if you did start a support group that people who are loosing would understand and rally around to give and receive support. Its a good thing you plan.

Sayre Kulp 

You ain't just whistlin' Dixie. I know exactly how you feel.

Bionicycle

When I was my largest, I was a 56" around the waist.( about age 26) Then I got down to a 36" around the waist.(about age 35) Now do to some really poor choices and complicating health problems I'm back up to a 46" around the waist.(about age 50) (six feet tall BTW) But, I was amazed when I was my smallest at 36" around the waist, with as six pack abs, and broad shoulders (I did body building), how everyone told me how great I was looking; when I looked in the mirror I still visualized myself as that big 56" around the waist guy. To this day I'll see a really big guy, and ask my wife "I'm not as big as that guy am I?" To which she will reply "No are you nuts, you're about half his size". (most times anyway).

My point is, I still have no firm visual in my head as to how I look. I still envision myself at my all time largest.

The main things I'm trying to get a grasp of is... the fact that I now eat for entertainment, and I also need to get myself away from eating like every meal is my last meal. Portion size is being a major problem for me. Sadly as well my activity level has fell off to about a 3rd of what it was at one time, due to my health issues. People probably look at me and say, he has those health issues because he's fat, but the health issues came before the fat came back.

My weight gain has been much like some people accrue credit card debt. Over the last ten years I've gained around 80 pounds. But, it was always in increments... I would gain 10-15 pounds in the winter, and lose about 5-7 of it in the summer, and fool myself by saying "well I just won't gain anymore this winter" and then start the cycle all over again. So, ten years later I'm at least 80 pounds heaver, and ten years older, wondering how in the hell I'm going to ever get rid of it now. I know what it takes to loose weight, I've done it before, but I must admit I'm having one hell of a time doing it now.

Neil_B

+1.

john423

Learn to take compliments with a simple grace, even if you're not in the mood. You handled the rebound pretty well. When someone compliments you in the future, just have stuff practiced to say: If someone compliments you, just use a standard "thank you very much," if someone asks how you did it, keep it simple like "eat less, exercise more." It's almost as if the compliments are extended "good days," because all they really want you to say is "good day" back and move on. Just keep it short and keep it simple.

And now you've got me wanting one of those Road Machines, darn you. Like I need to spend any more money on this accursed habit.

Chances are if you were feeling weak and losing strength, you weren't eating enough. Did you happen to be on a low-carb diet? Sometimes the emotional highs and lows can be brought on by how you're eating - like I mentioned earlier, carbs cause you to secrete serotonin, the same stuff that makes Zoloft and Paxil-type antidepressants tick. Cutting down on carbs like when you do a low-carb diet or when you do a low-calorie diet causes your serotonin levels to drop, thus you feel down. And are more prone to try to feel better by eating more. See how your body fights you?

And your wife feeling threatened because you were losing faster was such a preventable thing - women lose weight slower. It's not just her, it's all women. Hormones cause water fluctuations, women generally have to diet crazier than men to lose weight. She shouldn't even have began to compare herself to you, it's not a fair comparison.

Neil_B

This is a shift in thinking and action. Someone who needs to lose 30 pounds approaches the task differently from someone who needs to lose 150. In my case, 400 pounds was death, so getting away from it as fast as safely possible was important. Hence my dropping 25 pounds the first month, and ten pounds a month afterward. When I hit 275 or so, I needed to rethink things, because ten pounds a month would be a stretch when I was exercising six days a week and eating less than 2500 calories already. The pace was unmaintainable, and I needed to get used to small losses.

CraigB

That's where I feel I am now, and it's the point I was trying to make in another post where I talked about the "low-hanging fruit" phase of weight loss being behind me. I know I can do better just about every day, so there's no question in my mind that there's room for improvement. But I'm pretty sure that if I were to look back at those first several weeks and exactly duplicate everything I ate and every bit of exercise and activity I performed back then, the progress would still be slower now.

john423

Yup. Naturally, as you lose weight your body needs less calories so you'd have to eat less and/or exercise more for the same results. Plus once you get so thin (and 215.5 is pretty darn good, congratulations), your body starts fighting you more - it's like it's saying "what are you trying to do, starve me to death?" and it turns up your appetite to try to get you to gain some weight. Remember, we were cavemen once who depended on bodyfat to help keep us warm and didn't exactly kill dinosaurs every day for food. So the body panics when we try to get too thin, thinking that we may freeze or haven't offed a triceratops or whatever.

Then there's the whole notion of "set point," which is another matter entirely.

When I got down below 200, I was so much more hungry than I ever was at any other weight. It was No Fun, and didn't last long.

Oh yeah, remember how they fed us pizza at work yesterday and I was just gonna eat and go with the flow, and whatever happened, happened? Gained 7.6 pounds. I'd say a goodly chunk of that is water from the high sodium levels of the pizza. We'll see if I can manage to eat clean for the first time in about 250 days.

Jtgyk

As far as Quick weight gain after losing a lot of weight, fat cells don't ever go away (unless surgically removed)...they just "deflate". They are always waiting around to store up the lipids. It's frightening how fast you can fill them back up.

Neil_B

Not to go off-topic here, but "set points" were, and perhaps still are, one of those things people use to claim it's impossible to lose weight.

john423

Nah, not impossible, just hard at the lower levels. If you're a reasonably decent-sized guy, getting below 200's not easy. A typical person's "set point" isn't 250 or 300.

Sayre Kulp 

Yeah... that's where I'm at right now and it SUCKS. Although it's kinda funny... I tell other people not to get too hung up on numbers and just focus on fitting smaller clothes or feeling better or being able to be more active, but the numbers sometimes motivate me to push harder. Now I'm not talking about the kind of behavior that makes one crazy - always having to get a lower number. But say I weigh myself on Monday - chart my food intake and exercise. Then I weigh myself on Tuesday. I make note of what helped and what didn't. I do this every day. Sometimes I fall into a routine with my exercise the same way you do with diet or other aspects of life. When the results tend to level off, it motivates me to find ways to push a little bit harder and shake it up. (in a healthy way)

jethro56 

Sayre as this is your thread I've waited until you posted before I "contributed" to this hi-jacking. As you have responded, I'll add to it.

Warning!!! The following contains baseless opinions and my be harmfull to the gullible. Consider consulting with a psychiaritrist if this makes sense. rated PG-50

I like to look at the setpoint/plateau problem on a biochemical level. In order to burn fat you have to get it's energy into the bloodstream.The first fat you burn off is easy because it's stored in a location that your body is used to using. When that is depleted to body has to find a new place to use. It has to prepare for the change, maybe make new or enlarge blood vessels or what ever. As this is happening your metabolism slows down as it not fed enought to build these new transport structures.Without realizing it you start being more efficent moving around or sleep more or whatever.Your weight loss stops.Calories in = calories out.

My solution. First week. Eat more. Not alot more, maybe 300 calories a day.
Second/Third week. Continue with higher calorie diet.Change up exercise program.Get the pumper going.
Fourth Week Cut back on food. Do long slow workouts mostly.
Stay with this until next plateau.

I expect plateaus they're normal. I have a plan to deal with it and it keeps me thinking long term.

Plateaus:
370
340
320
290
270
250- present (in week 3)

Each time The second/third week has gotten a little longer. I can now tell when I'm ready to cut back on the food.

Expected future plateaus

240
230
225
220 - may hold this weight for 3 months don't know yet.

One thing you don't want to lose is HOPE