who has the right of way?
#26
Jedi Master
Joined: Sep 2014
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From: Lake Forest, IL
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Just slow down and let the guy pull into traffic. What's the big deal? Are you trying to win a strava segment or something? This kind of thing happens all the time.
#27
Junior Member

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 144
Likes: 5
From: Seattle, WA
I have to agree with cyccommute. I live on a through street with such a T intersection at one end. The only car to ever to yield the right of way was a police car (I was in a car too). Everyone assumes the straight through has right of way.
#28
Full Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 334
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Technically this is incorrect. The laws state that an uncontrolled intersection should be treated like a 4-way stop or inoperable stoplight. In other words, you should yield to the car to your right. If they arrive at the same time, vehicle A has the right of way as it is the vehicle to the right.
Unfortunately this is not the way that that most people think and anyone in vehicle A would be foolish to try and assert their right of way.
Unfortunately this is not the way that that most people think and anyone in vehicle A would be foolish to try and assert their right of way.
#29
Full Member
Joined: Oct 2007
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how many times have you, on a bike and stopped at a 4-way stop, waiting for a vehicle to your right (perpendicular) to proceed after arriving at the intersection first, said driver waves at you to go ahead ? while this courtesy is appreciated, i never take him up on it (unless perhaps it's rather obvious he is doing more then being nice, like looking at a map or otherwise "stopping/pausing". i will not go because if he decides to go and hits me, guess who is at fault (and also severely injured) ? that's right, ME. your suggestion above violates the entire expectation of PREDICTABLE behavior.
#30
Full Member
Joined: Oct 2007
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If there is no sign giving a right of way to one road, or another (stop sign, or a yield sign), and if there are no traffic lights, then the vehicle coming from your right hand side has the right of way. Vehicle A in this case has the right of way.
In the pic below, the green car has the right of way.

In the pic below, the green car has the right of way.

man, i'd hate to be sharing the road with some of you on here ....
#31
GATC

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 8,840
Likes: 186
From: south Puget Sound
Technically this is incorrect. The laws state that an uncontrolled intersection should be treated like a 4-way stop or inoperable stoplight. In other words, you should yield to the car to your right. If they arrive at the same time, vehicle A has the right of way as it is the vehicle to the right.
Unfortunately this is not the way that that most people think and anyone in vehicle A would be foolish to try and assert their right of way.
Unfortunately this is not the way that that most people think and anyone in vehicle A would be foolish to try and assert their right of way.
It's not clear to me if both the roads in this T are even roads at all (vs lanes in a parking lot).
#32
Jedi Master
Joined: Sep 2014
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From: Lake Forest, IL
Bikes: https://stinkston.blogspot.com/p/my-bikes.html
the big deal is that the whole point of traffic protocol is to ensure that driving behavior is standard, expected, and PREDICTABLE. if i have the right of way, i take it. if i don't, i don't.
how many times have you, on a bike and stopped at a 4-way stop, waiting for a vehicle to your right (perpendicular) to proceed after arriving at the intersection first, said driver waves at you to go ahead ? while this courtesy is appreciated, i never take him up on it (unless perhaps it's rather obvious he is doing more then being nice, like looking at a map or otherwise "stopping/pausing". i will not go because if he decides to go and hits me, guess who is at fault (and also severely injured) ? that's right, ME. your suggestion above violates the entire expectation of PREDICTABLE behavior.
how many times have you, on a bike and stopped at a 4-way stop, waiting for a vehicle to your right (perpendicular) to proceed after arriving at the intersection first, said driver waves at you to go ahead ? while this courtesy is appreciated, i never take him up on it (unless perhaps it's rather obvious he is doing more then being nice, like looking at a map or otherwise "stopping/pausing". i will not go because if he decides to go and hits me, guess who is at fault (and also severely injured) ? that's right, ME. your suggestion above violates the entire expectation of PREDICTABLE behavior.
#33
Full Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 334
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i cannot believe this is even being debated here. straight-thru drivers have the right-of-way, period. drivers turning/merging into existing traffic do not, period. this is about as fundamental and predictable a driving protocol, if not THE MOST, as there is.
#34
Jedi Master
Joined: Sep 2014
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From: Lake Forest, IL
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so, the guy who you assume is turning right into YOUR lane of traffic, and who must yield right-of-way to you, to be inattentive. ok, i'll give you that are being cautious while having the right-of-way. now, i'm sure the drivers behind you would appreciate you hitting your brakes to slow down for the guy who is expected to yield to you just so you can be nice, thus creating an entirely unnecessary slowdown of all the traffic behind you. this is where being COURTEOUS becomes a conflict with PREDICTABLE, so not really a high bar to strive for.
i cannot believe this is even being debated here. straight-thru drivers have the right-of-way, period. drivers turning/merging into existing traffic do not, period. this is about as fundamental and predictable a driving protocol, if not THE MOST, as there is.
i cannot believe this is even being debated here. straight-thru drivers have the right-of-way, period. drivers turning/merging into existing traffic do not, period. this is about as fundamental and predictable a driving protocol, if not THE MOST, as there is.
#35
Mostly harmless ™
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 4,462
Likes: 243
From: Novi Sad
Bikes: Heavy, with friction shifters
If there's a sign, or a traffic light, that's another matter, but the way it's in the picture - car on the right has the right of way.
#36
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2012
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From: Memphis TN area
Bikes: 2011 Felt Z85 (road/commuter), 2006 Marin Pine Mountain (utility/commuter E-bike), 1995 KHS Alite 1000 (gravel grinder)
OP: where on the road/lane were you located? This is a good example where positioning yourself in the lane where a car driver would be can help with pull-outs like this. If you're off to the side or edge, it's easier for a motorist to misjudge your speed or not even see you at all. The motorist is looking for traffic approaching in the places where cars would normally be. So placing yourself in that location, with a bright flashing light if it's daylight, can help your chances with motorists seeing you and waiting if you have the right of way.
Of course none of that helps if the motorist is just generally a d-bag driver.
Last edited by PatrickGSR94; 12-06-16 at 02:21 PM.
#37
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From: Memphis TN area
Bikes: 2011 Felt Z85 (road/commuter), 2006 Marin Pine Mountain (utility/commuter E-bike), 1995 KHS Alite 1000 (gravel grinder)
Except when you have to take evasive action because some motorist made a jerk-off dick move and did not respect your right-of-way.
#38
Jedi Master
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From: Lake Forest, IL
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#39
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2012
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From: Memphis TN area
Bikes: 2011 Felt Z85 (road/commuter), 2006 Marin Pine Mountain (utility/commuter E-bike), 1995 KHS Alite 1000 (gravel grinder)
I'm not sure why you try to downplay right-of-way laws for cyclists. They apply the same to all traffic, all vehicles, all vehicle operators, and it's why generally, for the most part, the roads are not filled with chaos and anarchy.
#41
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From: Memphis TN area
Bikes: 2011 Felt Z85 (road/commuter), 2006 Marin Pine Mountain (utility/commuter E-bike), 1995 KHS Alite 1000 (gravel grinder)
Thinking the laws do not apply to you does no one any good.
#42
Jedi Master
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From: Lake Forest, IL
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I get along fine with traffic. Go when it’s safe to go. Slow when it’s safe to slow. It ain’t rocket science. I think it’s funny when the law-and-order types get all worked up about rules and right-of-way, when most drivers don’t know and couldn’t care less.
#43
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2012
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From: Memphis TN area
Bikes: 2011 Felt Z85 (road/commuter), 2006 Marin Pine Mountain (utility/commuter E-bike), 1995 KHS Alite 1000 (gravel grinder)
The fact that you get along fine with traffic tells me that you generally follow established ROW rules and laws.
#44
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 7,239
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From: Bay Area, Calif.
The rules in the US do differ, and frequently even differ among the various states. In California the vehicle code is clear that the car on the through street has the right-of-way even if the other car is coming from the right. I know the German law is the opposite - cars coming from the right have right-of-way over cars on a through street *in the absence of any signage*. But most through streets do have yellow signs indicating that traffic on them does have the right-of-way.
#45
Mostly harmless ™
Joined: Nov 2010
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From: Novi Sad
Bikes: Heavy, with friction shifters
You have got to be kidding me. Show me any law in any European country stating that a motorist from a side road entering into another road, with no traffic controls, has right of way over a person already driving on the straight-through road. I seriously doubt that is the case anywhere. The way you're saying it, in this linked map, a motorist pulling out from the parking lot drive on the right side onto the main road would have right of way over a motorist driving from the bottom towards the top of the road in this aerial view, and that is simply wrong: https://goo.gl/maps/MZ38mKBke6F2
This goes for all the EU countries as far as I know. I'm 100% certain for my country.
Pulling in from a parking place is different - what you say applies there. But if there's a road connecting to another road - it's the right hand rule.
#46
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2016
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Because you are on a bike you have right of way?? "Feel" must be the operative word here because, otherwise, it makes no sense to me. When I'm driving, I take my right of way regardless of what the bicyclist might feel. Same when I'm on my bike. In either case, I try to be ready to yield.
Given the ubiquitous nature of information today, there is no excuse for not knowing what your local laws are. ("AmLegalPublishing" can be your friend, too....)
#47
Senior Member
Joined: Apr 2015
Posts: 4,272
Likes: 1,304
From: Seattle
If there is no sign giving a right of way to one road, or another (stop sign, or a yield sign), and if there are no traffic lights, then the vehicle coming from your right hand side has the right of way. Vehicle A in this case has the right of way.
In the pic below, the green car has the right of way.

Opposite for left hand side driving countries.
In the pic below, the green car has the right of way.

Opposite for left hand side driving countries.
#48
SE Wis

Joined: Apr 2005
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From: Milwaukee, WI
Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400, 2013 Novara Randonee, 1990 Trek 970
Technically this is incorrect. The laws state that an uncontrolled intersection should be treated like a 4-way stop or inoperable stoplight. In other words, you should yield to the car to your right. If they arrive at the same time, vehicle A has the right of way as it is the vehicle to the right.
From WI statutes 346.18:
(3m) Uncontrolled “t" intersection. At an intersection where traffic is not controlled by an official traffic control device or by a traffic officer, the operator of a vehicle approaching the intersection on a highway which terminates at the intersection shall yield the right-of-way to any vehicle approaching the intersection on a highway which continues through the intersection.
Last edited by dedhed; 12-07-16 at 07:53 PM.
#49
aka Tom Reingold




Joined: Jan 2009
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From: New York, NY, and High Falls, NY, USA
Bikes: 1962 Rudge Sports, 1971 Raleigh Super Course, 1971 Raleigh Pro Track, 1974 Raleigh International, 1975 Viscount Fixie, 1982 McLean, 1996 Lemond (Ti), 2002 Burley Zydeco tandem
FEEL is irrelevant -- that's why there are traffic laws. And since bikes have the same rights/duties on the roads as cars (all 50 states), follow the law. There IS no right of way based on mode of transport, other than ON FEET.
Given the ubiquitous nature of information today, there is no excuse for not knowing what your local laws are. ("AmLegalPublishing" can be your friend, too....)
Given the ubiquitous nature of information today, there is no excuse for not knowing what your local laws are. ("AmLegalPublishing" can be your friend, too....)
__________________
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
Tom Reingold, tom@noglider.com
New York City and High Falls, NY
Blogs: The Experienced Cyclist; noglider's ride blog
“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
Please email me rather than PM'ing me. Thanks.
#50
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2016
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I don't mean I have an opinion. I mean I make a decision but sometimes I'm wrong. Whenever something goes wrong such as a near collision, I stop and ask how it happened and what role, if any, I played in it. Sometimes I think it's my turn to go and I turn out to be wrong. So when I do go, it's because I think I'm right. I don't want to say I know I was right until after the fact. Uh, is that clearer? 

Not condescending when I say this, but I hammered this home with my kids in their teen years; only some of them got it. (Guess the others 'felt' they didn't NEED my...advice, LOL.)




