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Surly Preamble

Old 02-05-23, 06:57 PM
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Surly Preamble

New road bike leaked by Surly aimed squarely at budget commuters. Definitely a road bike kind of wheelbase and geometry, nothing weird. Vertical dropouts, disc brakes with mechanical levers and calipers, which are all a new budget 1x drivetrain called CUES from Shimano. Drop version in red is $1300 and flat bar in mint green is $1000, frame $600. XS and S are 650B and M-XL are 700C

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Old 02-06-23, 06:42 PM
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I think it looks like a really neat little commuter. It goes head to head with a bunch of alloy hybrids like the Giant Escape, and will be heavier but with a much nicer ride and better carrying capability. Simplified QR dropouts, and, for Surly, minimal braze-on/mounting points. People will see it as a Bridge Club with less tire clearance, but if the M-XL frames have room for 700x35c and 650x47b tires, it looks like it would make a great commuter/ATB. I'm keen on it, I kind of want one.

But does anyone know about budget CUES? All I can find with Google is an ebike specific Di2 groupset/components. The drivetrain and brakes are a new type of budget analog/acoustic version of the ebike CUES?
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Old 02-06-23, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by PDKL45
I think it looks like a really neat little commuter. It goes head to head with a bunch of alloy hybrids like the Giant Escape, and will be heavier but with a much nicer ride and better carrying capability. Simplified QR dropouts, and, for Surly, minimal braze-on/mounting points. People will see it as a Bridge Club with less tire clearance, but if the M-XL frames have room for 700x35c and 650x47b tires, it looks like it would make a great commuter/ATB. I'm keen on it, I kind of want one.

But does anyone know about budget CUES? All I can find with Google is an ebike specific Di2 groupset/components. The drivetrain and brakes are a new type of budget analog/acoustic version of the ebike CUES?
I don't know anything but I surmise it's an Acera-like 1x setup to compete with Microshift who have been eating into their Altus-Acera-Alivio share lately with Advent and Acolyte. The flat bar is a 9 speed and the drop is a ten and cable brakes. I thought Shimano's only current cable disc caliper was Tourney level. I would not hold my breath for anything clever but can hope. It's a rapid fire shifter pod and not an EZ Fire

The U thing in the component names is reminiscent of Metrea which looked so cool but it was not even marketed here in the States
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Old 02-06-23, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Darth Lefty
I don't know anything but I surmise it's an Acera-like 1x setup to compete with Microshift who have been eating into their Altus-Acera-Alivio share lately with Advent and Acolyte. The flat bar is a 9 speed and the drop is a ten and cable brakes. I thought Shimano's only current cable disc caliper was Tourney level. I would not hold my breath for anything clever but can hope. It's a rapid fire shifter pod and not an EZ Fire

The U thing in the component names is reminiscent of Metrea which looked so cool but it was not even marketed here in the States
You would almost immediately assume Microshift Acolyte 1x8 on the completes, without known the specs, and Shimano sort of does need to do something to address that issue of OEM market share lost to Microshift. Advent and even Acolyte are seemingly cooler and more appealing than Altus-Acera-Alivio right now, even if that lower level Shimano stuff is on par or better quality. Are they still doing the Sora mechanical calipers? I have a couple of barely used Sora calipers waiting for a new build right now, place holders for something a little more hydraulic.
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Old 02-06-23, 07:58 PM
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That will be a cable pull conundrum. Will they be the same calipers for flats and drops or not? Same q for the shifter
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Old 02-06-23, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Darth Lefty
That will be a cable pull conundrum. Will they be the same calipers for flats and drops or not? Same q for the shifter
No, it's all okay. Cable pull, that is. I have them on Tiagra flat bar levers and they work just fine. But the brakes on the Preamble are actually Tektro HD-M276, according to the leaked issuu document. 141 mm boost QR rear hub as well, so maybe a bit of a pain in the butt for those wanting to upgrade wheels? I haven't taken a deep dive into 141 mm hubs, but you need boost 148 with end caps I guess. *Edit: Maybe it's Gnot-Boost? 138 mm spacing allows for 141 mm and 135 mm QR hubs. All things considered, I am actually preparing to build something that is basically the same as this bike this spring (a budget ATB/bikepacker), so bikes like this and the new Space Horse are very much on my radar at the moment.

Issuu Leak Document:
https://webcache.googleusercontent.c...&ct=clnk&gl=us

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Old 02-06-23, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by PDKL45
I think it looks like a really neat little commuter. It goes head to head with a bunch of alloy hybrids like the Giant Escape, and will be heavier but with a much nicer ride and better carrying capability. Simplified QR dropouts, and, for Surly, minimal braze-on/mounting points. People will see it as a Bridge Club with less tire clearance, but if the M-XL frames have room for 700x35c and 650x47b tires, it looks like it would make a great commuter/ATB. I'm keen on it, I kind of want one.

But does anyone know about budget CUES? All I can find with Google is an ebike specific Di2 groupset/components. The drivetrain and brakes are a new type of budget analog/acoustic version of the ebike CUES?
Seems nice, yes, but Surly steel doesn’t ride better than mainstream aluminum frames. Not even close. Perhaps the 650B version with the big tires will.

Per usual the challenge for Surly is competing on spec. Things aren’t as bad now as the dark days when they were selling Cross-Checks with steel forks and bar-end shifters at the same price as competitors with carbon forks and integrated shifters. But the similarly priced, aforementioned Giant Escape Disc has hydraulic discs for instance. 2x9 drivetrain. Etc. What Surly has going for it is style and practicality. Though the Giant looks pretty good in Hematite.

*Oops - apparently the Surly will also have hydraulics. We regret the error. Gathered my impression of spec from reading thread before the document. Generally a bad idea. The “official” (leaked) parts list looks just fine for the price.

What’s interesting is the bike in the photo looks like it doesn’t have rear rack mounts, but does have a full set of fork mounts. I wonder if it’s just a preproduction bike in the photo, me missing something, or a classic Surly quirk.

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Old 02-06-23, 09:54 PM
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Those Tektro 276 brakes are on a ton of bikes right now. One of the three kid bikes this christmas had them and another one had a clone or cheaper version. All the e-bikes my wife is shopping seem to have them. Hydraulic brakes have really reached ubquity. Finally!

All the pics show cable brakes, though. Hm. The Tektros are only in the bumf for the flat bar. The spec for the drop bar version mentions Shimano brakes, not Tektros. Hydraulic brifters are usually comically expensive compared to MTB controls, you would not expect to see them at this price point

All the versions have the same 35mm tires. The smaller sizes are 650b rims
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Old 02-06-23, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Darth Lefty
Those Tektro 276 brakes are on a ton of bikes right now. One of the three kid bikes this christmas had them and another one had a clone or cheaper version. All the e-bikes my wife is shopping seem to have them. Hydraulic brakes have really reached ubquity. Finally!

All the pics show cable brakes, though. Hm. The Tektros are only in the bumf for the flat bar. The spec for the drop bar version mentions Shimano brakes, not Tektros. Hydraulic brifters are usually comically expensive compared to MTB controls, you would not expect to see them at this price point

All the versions have the same 35mm tires. The smaller sizes are 650b rims
Good point, I was looking at the flat bar version, so the drop bar version may have Shimano mechanical brakes.

Also, on the ride quality, I think steel's going to ride at least little better than alloy, even in cheap Surly gas pipe gauge, except of course if the alloy hybrid has a carbon fork. Still, the weight carrying ability is going to be much better and I stand by the assertion that steel has a nicer ride quality, although granted, not by much down at that price point.

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Old 02-06-23, 11:04 PM
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Surly bikes are not exactly 531SL. And this is a cheap one
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Old 02-07-23, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by PDKL45
But does anyone know about budget CUES? All I can find with Google is an ebike specific Di2 groupset/components.
Shimano put out some very basic info about CUES for their dealers on Monday and it's something to be launched soon, but there aren't any details publicly released yet. If you really want to puzzle things out in advance, look at the part numbers in the leaked document from Surly - there's quite a bit of info there if you understand how to read their part numbers.
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Old 02-07-23, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by lasauge
Shimano put out some very basic info about CUES for their dealers on Monday and it's something to be launched soon, but there aren't any details publicly released yet. If you really want to puzzle things out in advance, look at the part numbers in the leaked document from Surly - there's quite a bit of info there if you understand how to read their part numbers.
Thanks, but it's not that important, really. Interesting, though. It should be released by February 22nd I'm guessing, as I got the impression the new Surly bike was pegged for release on the 22nd. A few years back I was really pumped to get my hands on the Metrea groupset, but South Korea's low on Shimano's priority list and you can't order Shimano from CRC/Ribble anymore, so I was interested to see a new urban groupset featuring derailleurs.

Also, with cable brakes etc. I think the pics are prototypes, because you can actually see Microshift Acolyte or Advent in one shot and a few other things, like missing rear rack braze-ons on the seat stays. I'd say the specs are correct and the photos are of prototypes with prototype colors and components.
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Old 02-08-23, 05:10 AM
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Looks like a great bike.
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Old 02-13-23, 03:32 PM
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I saw one of these in a shop today; Flat Bar with the Acolyte drivetrain.
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Old 02-20-23, 02:00 AM
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Yeah, it's a bit of a turn around for Surly. Usually they announce a bike or component that isn't available, but this time there's a bike available without an announcement:

https://www.omafiets.com.au/surly-pr...lete-bike.html

You can see a little of the Surly dealer page there.
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Old 02-21-23, 01:33 PM
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That shows BB5's and not the Tektro hydraulics
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Old 02-21-23, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Darth Lefty
That shows BB5's and not the Tektro hydraulics
With Acolyte instead of CUES as well. That document was entirely prelimimary I guess, reflecting where they were at with things at that stage of the roll out.
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Old 02-22-23, 05:23 PM
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Live on the website. Drop bar version has Microshift R9. No sign of CUES. No Shimano whatsoever. Free of SRAM too except for the brake calipers which are BB7. Sort of reminds me of Soma completes from mid last decade
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Old 02-22-23, 05:39 PM
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After the Ghost Grappler holding off for like two years, the Skidloader and Preamble showed up pretty quick
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Old 02-22-23, 06:55 PM
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Actually a kind of cool build, IMO. It's good to see the rise of Microshift as a viable alternative to Shimano and SRAM, but with a spec like that, why did they fall back on BB5s for the flatbar version? You'd think they could rustle up some decent OEM hydraulic disc brakes from somewhere. Still, I think it looks like a really decent little commuter, the kind of bike that everyone riding a BSO to the office should actually be on. Easily repairable, good frame and all round decent value. Nothing too exciting, but this isn't that; it's a good soild commuter/urban/getabout that would do just fine on gravel and rail trails. The specs leaked in that preliminary document were nicer, though, it must be said.
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Old 02-22-23, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by PDKL45
Actually a kind of cool build, IMO. It's good to see the rise of Microshift as a viable alternative to Shimano and SRAM, but with a spec like that, why did they fall back on BB5s for the flatbar version? You'd think they could rustle up some decent OEM hydraulic disc brakes from somewhere.
Easier maintenance and fewer toxic fluids? Just a guess.
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Old 02-22-23, 07:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Korina
Easier maintenance and fewer toxic fluids? Just a guess.
Both good points. The thing is, though, I find that BB7s, if not adjusted correctly, can be lethal. I assume the same of BB5s. By that I mean for new riders, who are unaware that they need to constantly adjust the calipers as the pads wear, the brakes can lose a huge amount of stopping power. Even for experienced riders, they can sometimes catch you out. I'm remembering a particular day, coming downhill, taking a wrong turn down a sharply steep little hill into some guy's factory yard with three or four agressive dogs tied up but straining at their leashes wanting to have a chew on me, and yanking the brakes on with full power, only to realize that I'd been wearing at them all ride and they were suddenly utterly ineffective. I stopped within 30-50 cms of some grumpy big assed dog going nuts for a taste of cyclist. BB7s are reliable, provided you are very attentive to adjustments.
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Old 02-22-23, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by PDKL45
Both good points. The thing is, though, I find that BB7s, if not adjusted correctly, can be lethal. I assume the same of BB5s. By that I mean for new riders, who are unaware that they need to constantly adjust the calipers as the pads wear, the brakes can lose a huge amount of stopping power. Even for experienced riders, they can sometimes catch you out. I'm remembering a particular day, coming downhill, taking a wrong turn down a sharply steep little hill into some guy's factory yard with three or four agressive dogs tied up but straining at their leashes wanting to have a chew on me, and yanking the brakes on with full power, only to realize that I'd been wearing at them all ride and they were suddenly utterly ineffective. I stopped within 30-50 cms of some grumpy big assed dog going nuts for a taste of cyclist. BB7s are reliable, provided you are very attentive to adjustments.
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Old 02-22-23, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Korina
Easier maintenance and fewer toxic fluids? Just a guess.
No. Fluids aside, hydraulics require much less maintenance than mechanical discs and so theyíre much more user-friendly, useful on an entry-level bike like this. PDKL45 covered this already, but not only do mechanical brakes need regular adjustment, they canít be adjusted merely by increasing cable tension, a fact that catches out even experienced mechanics. Surly would spec hydraulics if they could hit the price point and/or if they were available. This is a shame but not too surprising.

They are saying they used lighter and thinner tubes than on some of their other bikes. Who knows what that translates to in practice, a $900 complete bike is unlikely to really deliver on ride quality. But itís nice to see they were thinking about it. Also, this might be the most self-aware sentence Iíve ever seen from a Surly blog post:

Originally Posted by Surly
I mean, we already get accused on the internet of using muffler or car exhaust tubing, so do we really need to feed that fearmonger more and overbuild every bike?


$549 for a frameset is actually kind of intriguing. If I have enough parts lying around I could even see myself picking one of these up at some point for cruising around the neighborhood.
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Old 02-23-23, 08:17 AM
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For a frameset I'd get a Journeyer ahead of this. Well, for a complete too. Still QBP

"toxic fluids" baby oil omg
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