https://www.vanillabicycles.com/

Do you think they can build great commuters?
Or would I be better off with one of Rivendell's production frames?

those bikes look dreamy!!!

but just to be an argumentative cheap bastard: why do you want the most expensive frame possible??? there are tons of smaller guys out there who will make you just as cool a bike (well maybe not JUST as cool, those vanilla's look almost to pretty to ride to me) for not rnearly as much coin.

i sight my latest mtb:

instead of shelling out $$$$ on and independent fabrications or a seven i went low key and found a little guy.

https://www.waltworks.com/

same custom frame i'da paid 1,500 for at one of the big guys cost me 750 here. is it as nice??? i dunno, it is being shipped now and frankly i don't have any rich firends with those other frames to compare it too, but everyone who's ridden one seems happy!

i say support the little guy. but if you've got the coin and your willing to wait a few years (i think his wait time is being measured in YEARS) i am sure vanilla will build you a piece of rideable art!

Ya, his site doesn't mention wait times.
But i expected it would be long since its a one man shop.
Nice details though. I really like lugged frames.

Vanilla and Rivendell are both artisan frames, lovely to ride and own but they wont neccessarily make you go faster.
For a commuter frame, something a bit more basic will be better. Commuter bikes should pass the drop test:
Stand by the side of your bike.
Let go and watch it drop to the ground. Are you crying?

There are 3 companies producing decent stock frames in useful configurations: Surley, Somar, Gunnar.
henryjames.com has a list of small builders if you want to go custom.

THanks for the link to vanilla bicycles...Something to consider for my next bike.

Mike

I ordered two Vanilla bikes for our 15th anniversary back in June and will be delivered in April 2006.

I love how people say that this bike is cheaper, why not get this bike. First of all, when you are dealing with a custom bike builder, you not only pay for the materials but for the builders ability to build a bike that fits your body. My wife and I both need custom bikes. I currently own three Spectrum custom bikes, while my wife has two from Spectrum. Vanilla has developed a good reputation for building sound bikes.

Tom Kellog did an amazing job designing and building a bike that fits our bodies. My wife rides a 58 seat tube and 49 top tube. Yes she is long legged. Not every builder would be able to design a bike for her. The compromise for my wife is that she needs to have 650 wheels instead of 700. Many frame builders could make a bike that has 650 wheels, but how many people can actually design a good one.

I am easier to build for, as I ride a 54 seat tube and a 53 top tube.

Vanilla Bikes are true artisan bikes. We are going to get the hand cut lugs and the fancy rear drop outs. Not every bike builder would take the time to do this type of work.

From looking at the frames that Sacha White has built, I think that he could design a wonderful bike for you. His touring bikes are something to salivate over. Also as one person pointed out Vanilla is a little shop not a big shop.

Additionally the top frame builders fetch about $2,800 for a custom steel frame, whereas Vanilla is $1,500.

There is no way I could see using a Vanilla as a commuter. Those bikes should always be kept clean and polished and ridden like the works of art they are. I would just muck one up on my commute.

If you're into SS, I would add IRO to the above list. If you want lugged, check out Kogswell. Both IRO and Kogswell seem to make commuter friendly bikes.

Vanilla makes beautiful bicycles - real artistry in steel. I am not sure of their ride quality, but they sure look like top machines, and I'd bet they ride accordingly. I've always wanted to get a better look at one of these, so I'm interested what people have to say about them too. There's an interview with one of Vanilla's frame builders on the CBQ:

https://istanbultea.typepad.com/large...cha_white.html

Rivendells are also lovely, lovely bikes. I do have a little problem with their pricing on those frames, though. For example, the Atlantis just went up to, I believe, $1500. It's a wonderful frame, and I've seen them up close, but for that money you could get a custom frame instead of one built by Toyo in Japan and post-fitted to you with the Rivendell moniker on it. Nevertheless, I'll reserve judgment until I deal directly with them.

I'll probably keep on going back to Mercian for custom lugged bicycles until the day I die. Same high quality and pedigree, but much less expensive frames. They're UK-based, but I've had no problems dealing with them from over here in America via email. They'll do anything you ask, and you get to really make the bike YOU want for a relatively affordable price.

Thanks tibikefor2.
What kind of bikes did you order? What kind of paint scheme? just curious.
Did you have to go to portland for the fitting or did you do it over the phone/email?
I wish the wait wasn't so long, though.
That's one thing that makes Rivendell's production frames like the Atlantis or Saluki more appealing with a wait of 3-6 months.
Did you look at any other manufacturers?

True of most consumer items. Thanks for the visual.

D2:

We will be getting Road Bikes and yes I will occasionally commute on the Vanilla. If I drop the bike an it gets scratched then so be it. If it gets schratched bad enough, I will get it repainted. I like to ride all of my bikes. This past week I have been commuting on my spectrum track bike https://www.spectrum-cycles.com/ Spectrum has a steel waiting peiod of i think 8 weeks, as most of the frames that he sells are Ti. Tom is a top notch designer and has designed many bikes for World Champs and even Greg Lemond.

I am undecided about flying out to Portland for a Sacha White fitting or get fit with a local designer who works with Scaha. I am not totally comfortable with the local fitter, as he tends to raise people's handlebars. I have had 4 bikes made with the same position and do not want to change too much.

My wife likes red bikes, so we will go with some type of a matching red scheme.

I decided to go with Vanilla, because the detail work that he does very few people currently do. I fell in love with his rear drop outs.

I also looked at Richard Sachs, David Kirk (The Terraplane Model is awesome) and Tom Kellog. I was going to go with Richard Sachs, but he is old school and will not build a 650 wheeled bike.

And every few years you could get it painted/repaired. That's the beaty of lugged steel!

And holy moly, talk about not wanting to drop it...
https://columbinecycle.com/our_bicycles.html

holy cow!!!! i haven't seen any prices that high, but i could show you a bunch of places that will build you a custom lugged frame for less than 1,500....

man, like i said i don't wanna argue and i am sure those frames are worth it to some.

but for me, joe average (commuter/weekend enthusiast), i can get 3 full bikes nicer than what i have now for 2,800. maybe i am just cheap but i could never spend that much on a frame...

good for you if you can & do! i'd love to see and drool on one of those someday.

i guess my rambling point here is that: i just wanna people to know you can spend far less for a nice custom frame as well.

https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...nilla+bicycles

I had never heard of them before this previous thread. Somewhere in there there's a link to pics a girl took of her Vanilla. I think it's about the prettiest bike I've ever seen. I sure wouldn't commute on it though.

I guess that my bike will do just fine as a commuter this year. Whenever drop it or it falls over, I don't cry, I get pi$$ed off because it didn't break. If it majorly broke I could get a new one!

I think that riding a Vanilla or any other pretty bike to work would dpend where you have to ride and where the bike would be stored during the day. For example, I have a secure parking garaga with a camera that views the bike parking area. I am therefore not nervous about leaving my bike in the garage. I occasionally ride my custom Spectrum Ti with Campy Record and Ksyrium wheels to work.

When my wife and I worked for the same company, we would occasionally ride our Santana Ti tandem to work. My feeling if anything happens to a bike it can be replaced. I commute 200 miles per week and want to make sure that I am as comfortable as possible riding to and from work. I also view any bike as being replaceable. I would be more woriied about crashing and losing skin that I would be with a scratch on my bike. Just my two cents.

Foehn, if you drop you bike off of a roof (make sure no one is underneath) it will probably break..... (big smile)

Yup, my bike is in my house garage at night and sitting right next to me in my office during the day. No worries. And it would be insured anyway, so the only crappy part would be having to wait for a new one.

Speaking of which, I emailed Sacha White this morning. He said it's a 15 month wait.

To me, commuter implies a certain level of willingness to mess it up. I probably wouldn't want to lock up a Vanilla in front of a Kwik-e-mart. Even if no one stole it, I'd be a nervous wreck the whole time it was out of my sight, and that would be after spending 20 minutes finding the perfect parking spot that would ensure no accidental scratches.

Sacha makes amazing bikes, but I couldn't subject any of them to 'workhorse' status.

Now, IRO and Kogswell both make some nice frames that would be great as workhorse commuters that I wouldn't cry for when they get dinged.

If you only commute from your locked garage directly to your corner office with plenty of indoor bike parking, and make no side trips by bike, then I might consider it, but I do so much with my commuter that I would be limited by having a Vanilla, it would hold me back.

peace,
sam

Let me pimp another custom frame builder that does awesome work. Check out Davidson Cycles in Seattle. $1399 for a lugged steel road frame.

https://www.davidsonbicycles.com/html/home.shtml
https://www.elliottbaybicycles.com/

I recently repainted my Davidson frame. Check it out:

https://www.bikeforums.net/road-cycling/121275-check-out-my-davidson.html

-Jeff

Gear fetishes - who can avoid them? I understand the need for a custom frame, but it seems that people lose the forest for the trees.

Sacha White (Vanilla) builds some gorgeous bikes! From what I've seen he can do pretty much anything you want with steel using any construction method you like (lugged, fillet brazing, TIG). I don't think their prices are that high at all for custom frames. I have a custom steel MTB frame that was built for me by Carl Strong (www.strongframes.com) and it was around $1200. Someone here on this thread said that Vanilla is getting $1500, which is quite reasonable (super reasonable if that's for a lugged frame).

All that being said I own two production Rivendells, an Atlantis and a Quickbeam. Both are excellent bikes and are very well built. I'm completely sold on Rivendell's fit and riding philosophy. I guess you could say I'm a Rivendell devotee. So I definitely recommend taking a strong look at Rivedell too.

I guess what I'm saying is that you really can't go wrong here. If you choose one of those two you're going to get a great bike. Take your time and pick the one you think is right for you. Good Luck!

oh hi.
what is "old school"?
e-RICHIE©™®

That's a great idea. But the beast is soooo heavy. . .

I can imagine the questions now--So your bike broke; how'd that happen? Off the roof?--What were you doing on the NEW roof WITH YOUR BIKE? Maybe I should arrange to take a break while riding it up one of the local hills and have it "accidentally" fall in front of a large truck or somthin'!

e-richie:

Not a derogatory comment. When I contacted you, you said that you would not build a bike with 650 wheels. My wife rides a 49 top tube by a 58 seat tube designed by Tom Kellog, the only way Tom could get this bike to work was with 650 wheels. Tom and I had to do a lot of arm twisting to for my wife to accept this, as she used to be (pre-kids) a cat 2 racer. Once she rode the Spectrum for the first time, she was amazed at how well a properly designed bike can fit and ride.

Old School to me means a person who has something that works and does not modify that process for every little hot to trot innovation. I prefer old school bikes, which to me are a reasonable geometry and beautiful lugs. I just wished that you built bikes with 650 wheels (so my wife could appreciate your work)and your waiting list was shorter. One day I hope to own one of your bikes and a Kirk terraplane. I like buying what I call artisan bikes. My goal is to have one bike for every day of the week.

snipped:

not an issue.
i simply have no recollection of being asked about this in the
recent 4-5 months. when asked, i normally refer folks to builders
who specialize in it. there's a list on my site's links page. in
any event, i do make the frame "that" way, but i am clear to
state it is not my milieu and i cannot guaranty the "ride" as such.

you're in fine hands!

e-RICHIE©™®