is that considerd High or low were you live.

SoCal is hovering around 2.50 - 2.60. And they refinery is only 25 miles up the freeway

I'm starting to avoid century rides that are far away and require lots of driving to get there.
I think I will not go to the Eastern Sierra Fall Century ride this year, even though it is a ride dear to my heart. I did the Marin Century last weekend instead of the Shasta Century and avoided 400 miles of driving.

I'm lucky to live in the SF Bay area where there is plenty of good road riding from my door, and more if I just take BART.

I wish gas were only $2.44.

When adjusted for inflation, that is still not a record high price for the US. Back in the early 1980's, gas cost around $3/gal when adjusted to a 2004 base year.

I hope you will find the time to read more on this forum before you post more of your insulting sereotypes about us and the way of living that we have voluntarily adopted.

I saw the highest grade of gas at $2.95 yesterday, I haven't looked at the prices today but the cheapest gas is about $2.60 as of yesterday.

Yeah, I work at a Shell Gas Station and I had to go raise the gas prices up on the large sign out by the road. Made me feel a bit at ease, cause the orginal price of regular was $2.35 and I had to raise it to $2.40, along with Plus and Premium.

Roody is making some good points, he knows what he's talking about.

I've said this before, but since consumption is going UP while prices also go up, it suggests to me that oil/gas is underpriced as a commodity. Severely. Basic market economics tells me so. Either that, or market pricing no longer applies to this particular commodity-- in effect, everyone thinks they must have it, so the producers can charge whatever they like...

And no, I have no idea what the tipping point, where people begin to consume less because the price is to high, will be (or even if there is one).

What exactly did you find to be an "insulting stereotype" in what I said? The reference to the poor physical condition of the average American? That's not insulting, it's fact. Just look at any set of statistics you care to read. Illnesses related to smoking and obeisity make up the biggest portion of the health care problems in the country.

Or does it insult you that there are people who choose to own property instead of renting, even if it means they have to drive a little farther?

Someone said you knew what you were talking about, so please, tell me WHAT you are talking about.

What point did he make?

Getting back to the original idea behind this thread, please.

Yup, gas has been an under-priced commodity since the early 1990's. Americans will not alter their driving habits until the price of gas surpasses the $3/gal level. Even at $3/gal, people will not cut back on their driving -- buying smaller/fuel efficient cars will be the response to higher fuel prices. The majority of Americans will not drive less, will not move from the X-burbs to a town closer to their jobs, will not use mass transit and, most certainly, will not take up biking as a form of transportation.

The average American will be glad to see the neighbor's kid sent off to some third world hell-hole, to be blown to bits by an IED, before they will accept any change in their lifestyle. That's the fact of what it is folks.

Big business with its highly paid accounting staff will feel the pinch from increased fuel prices and cut back accordingly long before Joe Schmoe for whom it doesn't pay to count pennies.

In other words, inflation and possible recession will set in before we see any significant reduction in personal driving habits.

Your choice. Many of us on this forum have made other choices; for instance, I chose years ago to live in the city so I would not be car-dependent. But you are certainly free to buy and burn gasoline as long as you can afford it and it remains available.


Great! Do tell us how have YOU exercised your American ingenuity, and what ideas for alternative fuels you are developing?

This may come as a surprise to you but there are parts of the universe outside LA or the other big cities. And I'm not moving to one of them no matter how expensive gas gets.

The nearest bus stop for the pitiful excuse we have for public transit is farther away than my job, and doesn't serve the area that my office is in. In fact, it serves one shopping center here, makes a stop at one apartment complex, and that's about it. The rest of the routes are in a town about 10 miles to the south, and are centered around the local university. The bulk of the population in that town would have to travel farther to the nearest bus stop than the bus would take them.

If you can do it, more power to you. But before you jump someone else's case for not doing it, try to remember that not everyone lives in a city of 7 or 8 million people, complete with street cars, subways and busses. Some of us, in fact, most of us, have to get there on our own.

Roody makes the very good point that most Americans are in bad physical shape, and that a good number are trapped in situations where they need a car - frankly, all post-1900 infrastructure is planned around the car. There will be a certain amount of pain in quitting the addiction to cars.

I've done it, myself. I also am a member of a bike club where honestly, as a rule, everyone is faster than me, and many are 2x my age. I also cut a fine figure today carrying two big plastic boxes on my back, after making up a hybrid messenger bag/tiedown straps "thing" to carry them. And that was the 2nd of two trips, since I decided to buy the boxes on trip, then carried what I already had home, then went back for them. The average American would consider living this way a huge PITA. Me, I like being out in the air and seeing what's going on around the neighborhood etc.

Great! Do tell us how have YOU exercised your American ingenuity, and what ideas for alternative fuels you are developing?[/QUOTE]

Well, my expertise lies in desiging and building the machinery that makes all the little gadgets that we love so much, like air conditioners and tools and so forth. Don't know much about engines, but if someone can come up with one, I can help with the machines you'll need to make it. But other threads that have explored this same idea have had every idea that anyone put forth pounded into the ground. For instance, I suggested (and no, I don't know how to do it) the possibility of some sort refit to convert existing cars to hydrogen power. Less pollution, etc... That idea was met by howls from the same people who were a few posts before decrying the automobile about how poor the performance would be. One guy even elaborated at length on how his Corvette would only manage a small percentage of the horsepower it has on gasoline. They went on at length about how hydrogen consumes more engery to make than it provides, etc etc etc. Same for alcohol. My point in that thread was that it ain't gonna matter what the performance is when the supply runs out. But any suggestion beyond moving to Metropolis, living on the 300th floor and riding a bike to work is met with a hundred reasons why it won't work before it even gets tried.

And lest ye forget, gasoline for cars is not the only use for oil. The trucks, planes, trains, and busses that carry all the stuff we make and us all run on some sort of petroleum product. A lot of the folks in your neck of the woods use oil to heat thier houses and apartments. What are you going to do when the oil is gone? This problem is not just about cars, it's about everything. even the machines that I build would grind to a halt with out it. Sure, we can stretch it out for a while, but the supply of crude is finite, and when its gone, it's gone.

Roody didn't say that, I did. Roody very politely tried to tell me I was an idiot for saying so.

Nope. census data tells us the vast majority of people live in a city served by public transit.

Oh yes, my city says that it has public transit too. But like I said, unless you live within the 6 or 8 miles it covers, it's useless. The city to the south has more, and many of the college students use it, primarily to get around on campus. The average working person, once again, would have to go farther to get to the bus than the bus covers. Maybe this is a unique situation, but I wonder how many other cities do this.

There's a lot more to the equation than that. Do people that rent in the city have a savings fund that equals the price of the home those others have after it's paid off? What will the difference be between the two parties after the house is paid off, and only taxes and maintenance are the expenses, versus the ever continuing cost of rent?

Observation: Do people need cars because they live so far away from everything? Or...is everything so far away because people have cars? How spread out would the average city be if all the parking lots and highways weren't there?
Prediction: By winter of this year or through this New Year, gas will break three dollars/gallon. You heard it here.
By the end of October '05, every primary air carrier will be in bankruptcy, but only after they've unloaded all their pensions and left everyone high and dry.