As winter approaches and the roads get wet and dirty, Is there any great advantage or disadvantage to some bikes that are available with internal 3, 7 or 8 speed hubs? I'm considering purchasing one just for the reduced maint.

I've been looking at Breezer Bikes and Bianchi Milano

Thoughts??

Have you taken either on a test spin?

Yes, I've test rode the Milano and liked it alot. I plan to test ride a Breezer this week.

I've been thinking about getting a second bike and was considering the Cannondale fifty-fifty which is equipped with an 8 speed internal hub. But after doing a little bit of research I haved cooled to the idea.

Here is why:
(disclaimer - these are second-hand impressions all formed from reading postings here and elsehwere)
1) Some people report very noisy hubs especialy while in low gears riding up hills. Sometimes described as a coffee can rattling sound.
2) Check Sheldon Browns site. He may be favorably impressed but many worry about durabiilty.
3) Overhauling - many bike shops are lucky if they have one true mechanic. If it needs attention will your mechanic be up to speed?

I own a Milano. IMHO,all it needs is a front disc brake to be an awsome bad weather commuter. I really like the Nexus 8sp. You don't have to do the brake-pedal-downshift-brake dance when you come up to a light. Shifting is as smooth or better than any of my derailer bikes,plus you don't have the big jumps in gears from shifting front rings. There is some drag,but it's still easier to ride than my bumblecrow Sedona.

After my vacation is over,I'm going to do some commuting on it. I'll give an update when I do.

1) Mine's fine. And if all it is is noise,I don't think I'd worry. You should hear some Harley Sportsters with aftermarket cams.
2) Shimano makes good stuff. I can't see major manufacturers like Cannondale and Bianchi using them if there were serious probs.
3) You can either send it back to Shimano,or work it yourself. There's no way the insides are any worse than a motorcycle transmission. Also,from everything I've read they go a very long time between overhauls.

I also looked at a 50/50,but couldn't figure out why they put on such monster tires and didn't utilise the integrated rear brake.

Lots of advantages: Reliability, freedom from constant adjustment, and easy shifting at any spped are just a beginning. If obtained with coaster brake or hub brake, all weather braking is another plus.

I own and use Sachs/Sram 3, 5, and 7 speed hub bikes, all with coaster brakes. No internal repairs required in eight years of use. Previously I used Sturmey Archer 3 and 5 speeds for over 25 years with no hub problems. I would discount advice that comes from sources that place priorities on racing "efficiency", competition "training," or style conciousness, UNLESS those are also your priorities in commuting equipment.

I have 10,000 all weather miles on my Kettler Silverstar. The Nexus hub has been dead reliable, requireing only a yearly regreasing. Chain life is over 5,000 miles, with cleaning/lubrication only 3-4 times per year. The hub is silent except for the freewheel, which makes the usual faint sound. If you buy a bike with a noisy hub, it is clearly defective. I commuted 3 years and 7,500 miles on a derailleur bike. The maintenance required was just crazy, and I still had failures. Personally, I would not consider anything but an internal hub for commuting. Ditto for hub brakes and a hub dynamo.

Drawbacks: there is a slight friction loss. I don't notice it, but some people do, and it bothers some of them. It is a subjective issue, not a utility one. A potential realproblem it that the range in gear ratios is about 1 - 3. That means that there are no "granny gears" for spinning up really steep hills. That might be an issue in San Francisco, but not here in the DC area. The third potential drawback is that the Nexus is not intended for offroad use -- jumps and rocks. For normal riding, that is also no problem. The Rohloff 14 speed hub has a very wide gear range and works sell off road.

I think it really comes down to how much you like the feel. If you like the feel of riding it, then buy it.

Paul

Of course a Nexus-8 will run you $250, a Nexus-7 is $150, a Rohloff is around $1000. Sure, it gives you a 526% range, but you'd come out ahead financially by buying a more pedestrian Nexus and coupling it with a Schlumpf two speed bottom bracket.

But it is true that there's no substitute for the Speedhub offroad. It was invented for DH racing and it's hard to find a more abusive environment than that.

What is the retail price for the Cannondale 50/50? I went to their site but they don't have prices listed.
Thanks!

My LBS lists it for $1000.

I'm ending year two of an experiment whereby I do no maintenance on my commuter bike (nexus 7 rear hub, dynamo generator front hub). It's been pretty much rock solid. I don't clean, grease, or look at anything other than tire pressure. All my kids have, or are getting nexus-7 equipped bikes. I have also done a week long tour (Wisconsin) on a nexus-7. The range is a little limited for touring, but it was amazingly sufficient. If you're willing to sacrifice down below a 90 gear-inch top end, you can get a sub 30 gear-inch low end for steeper hills. I like these things.

Thanks for the info. I was interested in your comments about your week long tour as I will likely be using whatever bike I ultimately decide on for short tours. I think back (way back) when I was in jr. high. I had an AMF 3 speed and it was the most reliable and fun bike I've ever had.

I think everyone has convinced me that internal hubs is the way to go if you don't need extended gear ranges.

Thanks !!

Then you should know I plan to expand the range of that bike for next year's trip
(https://dbg.home.att.net/featurebike1.htm)
by giving it two front rings. This will require a rear derailer to take up the extra chain and a front to switch rings.

Too many hills in Wisconsin, and I like to cruise fast at least once in a while.

The funny thing is, in his podcast on English 3 speeds, he talks about how the internal 3-speed was so much more rugged and durable than deraillers.

I'm definitely going to look into them for my next commuter, but not until my current bike falls apart. I ride all winter and I just don't have too much trouble with my bike.

I thought this was funny timing too. I was recently shopping for bikes and looked closely at the 50/50 and a couple of Bianchi's Nexus-8 models. I was never able to ride the Cannondale as they had to order it and I didn't want to go through all the trouble since I wasn't very impressed w/the Nexus-8. Maybe that just means I wasn't impressed w/the Bianchi? The shifting sounded garbled and wasn't very smooth.

I really like the internal hub in theory - especially for a commuter - but I had my reservations after testing it out. (FWIW, I felt the same garbled shifting, skippy feeling on the Nexus 3-speed Townie, too.)

Glad to see that people out there are using it and loving it though, it makes me wonder if I had somewhat of an ironically coincidental bad experience.

10ch

What about changing flat tires? Is it appreciably more difficult than a derailleur bike?

I have 2 older suntour 3 speed hubs that are fitted with the somewhat rare threaded drivers, (instead of the circlip single driver). This combination gives me 9 or 12 speeds depending on if I use an old cyclo 3 speed cog or a standard 5 speed, with the smallest gear removed. Reason I can't run more than a 4 gear cog is that the 3 speed axle is only so long. These are on old schwinn cruisers, so the derailer hanger needs to be filed down to give the axle bolt enough bite. They work well to bost the top end.

10ch, my wife has a 7-speed nexus hub on her cruiser, it does have one single adjustment you are supposed to make to the cable, you flip it over and adjust the cable until two marks on the hub line up when it is in a particular gear (forget which one). That is supposed to make it shift correctly (I guess it's not 100% engaged in a particular gear if the cable is misadjusted). It's possible the guys at your LBS didn't have the cables adjusted right.

[QUOTE=dbg]Then you should know I plan to expand the range of that bike for next year's trip
(https://dbg.home.att.net/featurebike1.htm)
by giving it two front rings. This will require a rear derailer to take up the extra chain and a front to switch rings.
QUOTE]

You can do without the front derailleur and manually shift the front rings if you want to save some complexity. you could also use a chain tensioner instead of a rear derailleur if the chain rings aren't too radically different in size.

On my bike friday, I have a sram 3x7 rear hub that I love (21 gears), but I also run two rings up front - a 39 for loaded touring and a 52 when I use the bike as a roadie. to switch the rings, I just do it manually, otherwise, I'd have three shifters, which just seems excessive.

it's not any more difficult, it just requires more time and a wrench. the hubs are bolted on, so you can't use a quick release (thus the wrench) and then you need to disconnect the shifter cable, but it's no big deal. If you were racing, I could see a concern, but for general purposes, it's no sweat. just be sure you have a wrench that fits the hub bolt.

My "hurricane" bike has a four speed Nexus hub. It works very well here in Houston, where hills are both rare and small. Trek equipped my bike with a smaller than typical chainring, which makes all four gears very useful.

A "storm" bike needs more than a Nexus hub. I've ridden mine through a foot of water, and over potholes filled with water, mud, and debris. So, wide, wrap-around fenders, wide rims, and big beefy tires are also key features. The old-fashioned coaster brake works well when the rims are wet, and continue to work even when the water was almost up to the hub.

Although, with racks, bags, locks, front and rear lighting, my Trek weighs about forty pounds, my total time on a typical twenty mile ride are not that different than my times on a light weight road bike. Of course, I might get different results if I lived in San Francisco or somewhere that has significant hills.

You can still change the gearing on a Nexus,just swap the chainrings.

And which part of DC do you live in? Obviously not NW. Plenty of hills around Cathedral. The two routes I commute into work are almost all hills;maybe 10% of each is flat ground.

There are "hills" like you can find in DC and many other cities, and then there are the walls that they call hills like some roads in cities like SanFran and Pittsburgh. A 300% range is sufficient for normal hills but may still leave you over geared for the walls.
Cleveland only has a few hills in and out of the river valley so a normal hub gear would work great and I can manage a fixed gear. But if I rode the walls in Pittsburgh I would definately want a Schlumpf with hub gear for some serious gear ranges.
Craig

Curious - how do you find out the grade of a hill?