Raiyn

He asked
Only when in a static state. A rough rim surface will exacerbate brake block wear removing whatever imprint it would create due to the sliding friction you so aptly described. Loose material is a poor friction agent.
Bear in mind I'm not talking about a mirror finish, the smoothly machined finish on aluminum rims is more than adequate. Conversly manufaturers discovered that steel rims do require a texture to have any chance at effective braking
Not hardly by your own statement you're comparing apples to crankshafts
However the pavement makes an impression on the tire
Water displaced by pressure on asphalt (petroleum based) since water can't be compressed this will cause a temporary beading creating the ghost tracks.

michaelnel

This thread is about tread, not thread. ;-)

CBBaron

Agreed that loose material makes for a poor friction agent but especially in the dynamic state a rough rim is making impressions on the brake pad. However I perfer to have my brake pads last a day or two.
Agreed, I think we actually agree on the base subject
Which is why slicks are better. So it looks like we are both on the same side.
And you can't effectively use that water to push against like you can soft soil or mud on a off road trail.

The real problem for a commuter is you need a tire with good wet weather protection that also wears well and has good puncture protection. Long wear and good puncture protection are best suited by hard rubber compounds where as wet road traction is best suited with a soft rubber. Luckily a larger tire at lower pressure does help with both, specially with the wet traction.
Now if I could just get a bike that would fit a Schwalbe Big Apple.
Craig

budster

Thanks for the tip. I wiped out recently with nearly new Conti Town & Countrys. Then again, maybe I shouldn't have been doing little cirlcles in a wet, mossy brick courtyard. (Note to self: get a brain).

I hope the healing goes well.

danielhaden

EDIT: After purchasing a few sets of tires, I found out some surprising things.

In my opinion. . .

There's no hydroplaning with slicks. However, tread gets hooked on road projections when stopping, and slicks slide like crazy. We used to throw bald tires away for this reason, didn't we?
Tread works.

Panaracer T-Serv 700c x 28mm (actual 25mm) has far faster speed, far more powerful grip, and a far more cushioned ride than Specialized Armadillo. Coming to a screeching stop on a wet manhole lid is a cool trick, but that, plus a huge boost in speed and comfort, is most amazing
Silica rubber works.


Some surprises weren't so good:

Tom Ritchey and Tioga slicks have amost no traction whatsoever on wet pavement or even a wet leaf.
Re-discovering that bald tires don't work well seems to be a popular entertainment.

Wide size silica rubber tires are very slow on dry pavement, yet they work great on gravel. Treaded versions are faster by reducing the amount of sticky rubber that touches the road. Yet, it is still "too much glue" slower than the narrow tires.
Re-installing the wide dry-rubber rollers (Schwable Big Apple, Schwinn Typhoon) made the speed come back.
Finding speedy, yet safe, MTB tires is frustrating, even though it is not impossible.

banerjek

+1 for Schwalbe -- I ride the Marathon Plus now.

I rode Armadillos for years. The wet grip on those is absolutely terrible, and I've fallen several times. Last winter, I switched to the Marathon Plus, not because I was looking for more grip, but because I get too many flats riding in the dark when it's wet with the Armadillos.

The wet grip on the Schwalbe's is much better. Flat resistance is superior too and the ride is smoother. Having said that, it’s a slow tire, and they’re downright treacherous on frozen fog. However, I like them enough that I’ll ride them from now on.

I’m not sure I buy the idea that tread is just for visual appeal. If the roads are clean, slicks deliver good grip. However, if there’s a thin layer of dirt or there’s debris, a light tread can give a bit of grip. You may not need tread for water, but a film of mud won't flow away quickly like water when you ride on it. The value of tread probably varies with the surface, but on my roads, it seems like the tread interlocks with the surface of the pavement and small debris.

It’s a bad idea to compare racing tires used on the TDF with commuting tires. The Vittoria Open Corsa EVO CX’s on my racer have fabulous wet grip. However, they also have a very soft sticky compound on them. Although there is no tread, the compound does have some texture, so they’re not as “slick” as a set of Armadillos (especially with a few thousand miles on them).

michaelnel

I really like my Schwalbe Marathon Plus 700x28s in all weather. They're great in rain too. Heavy as hell, but very low chance of having to fix a flat in the rain, and that's important to me.

grolby

I've been very satisfied with my Panaracer Paselas in both dry and wet conditions. I have never once had a wet-pavement wipe-out with them. They are semi-slicks with an inverted tread, but I am extremely skeptical of the efficacy of this tread, for all the reasons cited by Raiyn and others. I'd like to try the Avocet Carbon 12 FasGrip slicks, but alas, I do not have a bike that can roll them right now. I am hoping to get a new bike this summer, though, which will give me the opportunity to try out a slick tire. It's too bad that they're so hard to find, as I really don't think that tread makes any difference on the kinds of surfaces that I usually ride on.

jcm

Obviously, there is no one-size-fits-all-rain-specific tire. These anecdotal testimonies are all true enough, but they are only what happened under those particular circumstances. Whether you slip on an oil slick or on a drain cover or slide out on a turn has more to do with happenstance than anything else, IM not so humble O.

Conditions are rarely ideal. and in the real world, you're gonna slip occasionally - tread design notwithstanding. Rain exascerbates those conditions. Remember that you don't have 1-1/2 tons of metal around you. When it's wet, slow down.

Enough of this.

michaelnel

Yep. I try to stay as vertical as possible on wet surfaces, and try not to brake or accelerate over slippery ones like storm drain covers and painted lines. Heck, I'm commuting, not racing. I need to get there, but I don't need to get there FAST.

ken cummings

So smooth tires and avoid smoother hard surfaces. Sounds about right. Has anyone suggested/tried metal studded tires for traction on wet manhole covers or paint stripes? They should give traction even on wet metal or ice. But possibly not worth the trouble for ordinary commuting. I use 700x38 nimbus armadillo tires and have "chirped" them on wet paint stripes. If I was having traction problems consistantly I would look for a different route. No?

nayr497

Old thread, but I'm looking for a new set of tires. I have some 700x30 Kendas that are awful. I've hated them from the day I got them as they give you and up-down bobble ride. (Not the wheelset, as it disappears with other tires). I was crossing a newly tar-sealed lot last week in wet weather and slipped and feel. I didn't know the lot had recently been sealed and realized this useful information a moment too late.

So...I'm after something in the 700x28-32 size. This is my commuter bike (of course) and it will be ridden in rain and light snow.

People seem to like a few - Continental Town & Country, Conti Top Touring, Schwalbe Marathon Plus, Paselas. I'm thinking some tread would be good for snow/ice riding (live in NE U.S.) and am looking to keep it at around $30 a tire.

Any new insights, or should I just choose one of those I've listed?

dynaryder

Specialized has some nice offerings in the 32 range. Infinity,Nimbus,Hemisphere.

nowheels

Been riding the conti gatorskins most of this year after getting rid of my Armadillos. Must say that I am generally pleased with their preformance in the city in most conditions and have had not flats yet. The Armadillos were not really that good in the winter time, lost of rear wheel slip and going over storm drains was always an aventure.