Wow, a double century on a Schwinn Racer …. Cool. And people think I’m nuts when I talk about being interested in doing a 50 miler on a 3-speed. Did you stick to the standard 46 / 18 gearing? I’m curious to hear what others do as I keep reading that the standard gearing is too high for most. I find it ok on fairly level rides but I’m thinking that a bigger rear sprocket would be good for the steep stuff (I live in the Adirondacks).

I’m also curious about the “lugged-steel Schwinn Racer”. It was my impression that the Racer model came with an “electro-forged” (welded) frame but I'm still learning.

Regards,
Alan

I had a Schwinn Racer fixed speed as a kid. Blue. Loved it. What a great bike.:D

This thread is a real rager. Over the past couple of days I was able to talk to my daughter who is in her last year of school for marketing. Her thesis is on the aging demographics of America and how marketing is going to try to exploit all that money. Since Dad has taken to the streets on a bike, her target research is how the record numbers of early retirees will spend their spare change - if they have any.

This is what she thinks on bikes, with my editing, as she is far more refined than I:
1) Madison Avenue rules - always has, always will. Your LBS stands for Lotsa Bull S#!+

2) Current marketing trends indicate that more than two people agree on what constitutes riding comfort. There are probably over a billion 3-speed bikes out there giving yeomanlike service over all types of terrain.

3) Present bike sales show the future trend as going strongly towards the continued resurgence of the 'comfort' type of commuter/all around utility bike. These bikes have far more in common with the old, trusty 3-speeds than any other type. Good design has a way of coming 'round again - just like the 'new' Craftsman Style houses being built everywhere. Aging demographics is already proving this out.

4) Despite the immense popularity of the present historic Lance phenomenon, it will crescendo, then fall back somewhat. Sir Armstrong has given cycling a huge shot in the arm. However, the basis for the future market in cycle sales will be a growing niche - not a niche - but a chasm, of more practically minded people who want to just ride a simple bike.

5) There will likely be a continued trend towards higher gas prices in the US as China and India enter the Second Wave of re-industrialization. It can be seen in the papers alot already. China is in Africa looking to secure historically huge deals on oil futures to fuel an emerging middle class that will be larger than our entire population. A portion of our bike sales will reflect that fact that gas may go to $5 or higher per gallon - and stay there. Urban and even suburban planners are looking to Europe to design 'villages' that will facilitate living in a tight fuel environment. Ergo: more practical bikes.

Now, to me, bikes like the Breezer, Gazelle (Dutch), Biria (German), Pashley (British), old vintage 3-speeds, older mtb's like mine, are all qualifiers. You can modify the bars, change saddles and tires, choose the gearing or type of drive and generally morph the thing into a real tool. It's all good.

I did on that ride, and it was too high (I spent nearly the entire ride in 2nd gear). When I got back I increased the rear sprocket to 21 teeth and that seems to work much better.

People thought I was nuts for doing the Milwaukee ride on the racer. A few told me they didn't think I'd make it all the way. Really, lightness and all that does not matter as much as people think it does. I'd do 50 miles without even thinking about it first.

That's right. Lug welded. The lugs go inside the tubes when they're welded for reinforcement. It results in an incredibly strong join. The other way to "weld" a steel bike together is called "brazing." You make a "socket" (called fillet, I believe) in the one tube that fits the end of the other tube very closely, then melt copper into it. If the joint is made right, the copper seeps into the crack between them and dries to form a strong bond.

Schwinn only brazed their high end models because it took too much precision (although it did end up in a lighter bike). Low end mass-production bikes like the Racer were all lug welded.

Reading this thread is like walking in on a Ford Pinto Enthusiasts convention.

Pinto???

Nope. The equivalent would be the Ford Fairlane or Chevy Malibu or Nova with a straight six. The Pinto had an impractical back seat!

Are you sure you weren't looking for the Road Cycling or Touring Forums?

Nope, but I keep having to check the header to make sure I'm not in the "vintage" forum. ;)

Well, if jcm is right, we are the future after, probably even bigger than singlespeeds. Most singlespeeders are enthusiasts, not your layman and thier effect on the industry is nil. They are a specialty, a true niche(do you guys count the singlespeed beach cruisers?) compared to the general paradigm shift that was the racing bicycle and the mtb, respectively. Also, note that most major manufacturers has categories for Comfort or equivalent types of bicycles and only a handful even manufactuers singlespeed as it is(unless they are beach cruisers). Raleigh has thier Gruvs and Sports Comfort, Bianchi thier Bergamo and Avenue, Specialized thier Sedonas and Giant thier Suedes.

I would like to add that there have been reports that alot of babyboomers and my generation(millenials) are looking into living in dense areas where arts and culture can be found(notre that i didnt say that the suburbs will stop growing). Couple that with the inevitable rise in fule prices and no viable alternative anytime soon, and we should at least see the resurgence of practical utility bikes from its current levels.

No, no. It is more like and Edsel convention. Great car, design marvel and like Dutch Bikes in current America a total flop. But the world will come around and the Like-Lance-a-lots will go away and when more people turn to using bikes for real transporation the commuter will rule the path again.

I was set on buying a Specialized Globe when I started commuting again, and distraught to find that they quit selling them in the US. I had to resort to getting all the stuff added on to my Crossroads which cost me way more (thereby justifying the Madison Avenue decision):rolleyes:

Has anyone ridden an Electa Townie? I love the look. Maybe they can be the new "Dutch American" Bikes.:D

I occasionally get snickered at by spandex fitness boys. They walk off and leave me because I'm geared like a rickshaw, but I have over a thousand miles on my big fat upright this year.
--A

What is the obsession some people in this thread have with spandex? You sound like a bunch of anti-bike yokels with that talk. Yeesh.

Spandex gives the perception that bicycling is a specialized and niched sport.

The bigger question is, why are you so obsessed with what we think? You know we like the old school style practical bike. You don't see us running around the spandex threads telling them to stop wearing them, do you(that I know of anyway)?

AllenG, is that a Giant Lafree?

:beer: Great Commuter :beer:

bkrowned your bicycle is almost identical to my 2002 Cannondale Bad Boy ( i don't have disc brakes, I do have deore XT). A simple commuter which has required very little maintenance in 4 years.

That's actually not mine, but when I saw it in REI I knew instantly that it was the commuter bike I had dreamed of for a few years, and suddenly I had Bike Passion again for the first time in a long while. I ended up getting this Absolute instead, but I still remember that Buzz...

To answerer my original question, I think the appeal for the Dutch bikes is based on nostalgia and the fact that some people like the anesthetic style of these bikes, which is fine and acceptable. What I take exception to is that some are attempting to rationalize these bikes not only for their utility/practicality but on the complete ASENCE of utility and practicality in all other CURRENT bikes. I think this is absurd and so is the idea that you have to abandon every element of performance to achieve utility. I also think there has been an attempt to stereo cast anyone under 50 as a spandex wearing, carbon frame toting club racer, which I think is a bit off.

The current functional equivalent of these bikes is the rigid tail MTB on slicks. These bikes have been around for awhile in various forms under the alias of hybrid, comfort, or urban bike as other posters have pointed out, or you could just put slicks on a rigid tail MTB. Many people on this forum, as pictures suggest and including my self, run these bikes as commuters. These bikes are fast and lightweight, sturdy, perform well under a variety of conditions, are utilitarian as heck, and work well for lots of people. With the addition of inexpensive bar ends or trekking bars one can adds extra hand positions. One difference from the Dutch bikes is that these bikes don’t come prepackaged with a variety of utilitarian accessories like fenders, racks, and lights that are otherwise readily available. I think people have made more of this aspect than what it is worth.

The big difference and most interesting feature is that the Dutch bikes are fixed gear or internal hub three speeds. I think fixed gear bikes have their place but also have their pros and cons. You obviously gain simplicity and durability but at the expense of peddling efficiency. This can make sense in some situations, most notably bike messengers and all season all weather commuters. Having said that, I also think problems with derailers have been exaggerated, and for what is worth I have never had a problem with shifting with my 11 year old MTB. If derailer systems were as god awful as some are trying to make them out, I would have switched to a fixed gear system along time ago.

Yes, based on your skill level I suppose it does seem that way. However, the core thought for this
thread is aimed at the millions of "joe average's" that will ride the bikes of the not to distant future.

In other words......older more mature people. ;) ;)

I NEVER saw a fixed gear bike in The Netherlands, but then I never went to the track. I assume you mean single speed either with a coaster or some type of freewheel singlespeed with other rear braking mechanism. Fixed gear for commuting is NOT a Dutch bike thing.

Also I assume the opposite of "all season all weather commuters" are fair weather riders for whom "peddling efficiency" (whatever that is) is a prime concern and more important than reliability, comfort, cost, etc.

Interesting how you respond when the tables are turned! In your first post, you were quite happy to completely dismiss a whole category of bicycles and to “stereo cast” the people who ride them.

I would be curious to know how much of your opinion regarding “old steel bikes” or “Dutch’ commuters is based on having ridden significant miles on them. I rode a “rigid tail MTB on slicks” for a number of years when it was the only bike I had and would be hard pressed to characterize it as fast or light.

Personally, I don’t really care whether people choose to commute on a Mountain Bike, an old 3-speed, a “Dutch” commuter or a carbon fiber racing bike. It would be more pleasant if people would focus on the attributes of their preferred mount rather than dumping all over the bikes that they don’t like. On the other hand, those who “live by the sword, die by the sword”.

As for the future of “Dutch” style commuter bikes in America, I think it will be a while. Bicycles seem to follow similar trends to other “things with wheels”. Soon after the Toyota Prius and their competitors’ hybrids outnumber SUVs on American roads we will see Dutch style commuter bikes overtake Mountain Bikes in sales. Probably not before then.


Regards,
Alan

Well kids, I'm spending the day hiking and biking, so play nice while I'm gone. I'll be biking through the forest on my 1994-2004 COMMUTER. Most Americans would never buy bikes that aren't FUN to ride and play on, IMO. This bike is FUN on the road AND off. Don't forget that.

Ok, but don't you agree that the goal is to get MORE people on bicycles and out of cars ??

How that is accomplished is of no matter. We all can agree that ANY bike can be used in a "Dutch" like
manner but when bike are 'for' that use they will be much more readily accepted and put to that use.

For me it's a function of weight. There is no way I could ride a 50 plus bike around SF at the same rate I can ride my cross bike. Needless to say the hills would also seem larger.

At the same time, putting north road bars, fenders, and an internally-geared hub on your cross bike wouldn't slow you down too much.

I don't think people are saying that everything is worthless for commuting except for Dutch style bikes, what they are pointing out is that they are built for this purpose and very well suited to it. They are efficient, low maintenance and comfortable.

You can convert anything into a commuter. As you mention, you can take a MTB, change the bars, change the tires, out on fenders, put on a rack, put on lights and you have a commuter. But with a Dutch bike or an old three speed, all these things came with the bike.