Well, there are a few people who actually believe in doing their civic duty....

Hey, this is the OP. Thanks for the feedback & supportive suggestions. I think this comment summed it nicely, especially #1: "
As far as a point by point...
1) She admits she saw him, but thought he'd apparently stop to accomodate her
2) If he braked harder, he'd have only done an endo into the car, which may have happened anyway. Bikes stop faster than other vehicular traffic anyway.
3) Don't know the speed limit, but most are over 25, and most cyclists spend most of their time under that."

#1 gets it. Her comments to me included "Why didn't you slow down?" & "Please, be more careful in the future!"
She rationalized to herself that I was being reckless.

Now, try as I might, all I can recall is that the car in front of me slowed & made a left. As I approached this road, I saw movement to the right at the stop sign. She must have been in motion at her stop sign, preparing to cross (nothing coming from her right & just a bicycle coming from her left = opening). From what I recall, I chose not to check my speed, I was in traffic. (I WAS traffic.) I think that I increased my speed since its a very slight drop in grade. That acceleration could have took her by surprise, but my speed still could not have gone above 18mph (its a 25mph zone & rush hour). That would explain her attitude that I was riding recklessly. Eureeka!

I don't think it much matters, there's a physical limitation to how well brakes can function. Given the speed of a car even when pulling out, for the cyclist to hit her she'd have had to pull out just before he hit her.

I mean, unless she pulled out, stopped, and 5 seconds later he hits her. But I don't think that happened here.

The reality is that sometimes, even if you win, you lose.

While I think she should pay 100%, there is some value in just putting this behind you. If you think the trouble you are going to need to go through to get full value back will be worth it, by all means go for it. Otherwise, chalk one up to bad luck.

It's more important to figure out what's best to do given your situation than it is to worry about who's right and who's wrong.

If the OP hit her car, then he may have entered the intersection without waiting for it to be clear. If you arrive at an intersection, and there is slow moving traffic crossing the intersection, you have to wait for the intersection to clear before proceeding. If the car hit the OP, then it's another thing.

I just reread my post. Let me clarify: I have been racking my brain to figure out what had happened that she is so convinced that she is not entirely at fault (tho she admitted that "technically", "legally" she's at fault, in fact she showed her intention & therefore I should have checked my speed.) It occurs to me that the acceleration may be the key. My bike struck her front wheel b/c she was surprised & slammed her brakes stopping halfway in my lane. BUT...I think I still could/would have hit her if I hadn't accelerated.
And no, again, I didn't have a stopsign.

Another clarification: guys, it wasn't an intersection w/ lights. I was riding a road w/ cross streets that had stopsigns. I had right-of-way. And the left-turning car in front of me was 1.5 carlengths ahead, I was 1 carlength away from this cross street where she was trying to cross my path.

Yer overthinking this. The reason she is so convinced she is not entirely at fault is because you are a bicycle. Many people believe bikes to be small, slow, and insignificant so they don't feel obligated to adjust to them.

The woman's assertion that you should have seen she intended to jump out in front of you and adjusted accordingly is strong evidence this is how she thinks. Had you been a car moving exactly the same speed, I doubt her logic would be the same.

Having said all that, I think you should be on the lookout for people doing what she did. Stupid stuff like what you're reporting isn't rare at all, though the right hook is more common.

maybe you missed this:
The bikeshop owner, the police officer & the eyewitness all told her its her fault.

the key being the police officer's report and the eyewitnesses....

Seriously man, you *really* need to stop talking to her. She's going to give you excuse after excuse, then she's going to refuse to pay. By then, good luck dealing with her insurance company.

I just came out of a 14 month *hell* with a insurance company. Trust me. It's *not* worth dealing with her. Talk to her insurance company, and if they jerk you around one bit, talk to a lawyer. I really wish I would have done that last year..

I think there is something to this. I believe many states have laws that will assign some fault if one of the vehicles had the opportunity to avoid the accident and didn't for whatever reason, even if the other vehicle's operator is the one who broke the driving law. I would say that if your conscience is clear and you were paying attention and there was really no way you could've avoided her, then you should pursue 100%. Otherwise, take the 2/3 and move on with your life. If you remain bitter about the whole thing, it's only hurting you.

Well, she's meeting me at the bike shop tomorrow to pay for 2/3rds costs ($300 bill accdg to LBS). That was the verbal agreement btwn us and she's going to keep it or I call her insurance company. She knows that much. But I hear you bdinger & others who said just hand it to the insurance company. My buddy, a lawyer, read me the riot act when I told him about the 2/3rds thing. I am not proud of how I caved but I feel I cannot change the arrangement. But if she balks, forget it. If she gives me more of the "be careful" jazz, I am going to lose it.

Well, she's meeting me at the bike shop tomorrow to pay for 2/3rds costs ($300 bill accdg to LBS). That was the verbal agreement btwn us and she's going to keep it or I call her insurance company. She knows that much. But I hear you bdinger & others who said just hand it to the insurance company. My buddy, a lawyer, read me the riot act when I told him about the 2/3rds thing. I am not proud of how I caved but I feel I cannot change the arrangement. But if she balks, forget it. If she gives me more of the "be careful" jazz, I am going to lose it.

I re-reread my post - again - and I think I am confusing people. I had no stop sign, there was no time to react, her car was poised to cross but no eye contact was made, she assumes that I should have read her intent. Obivously I would have braked sooner if I thought she was going to jet across as I approached her. I thought, instead, that she was going to wait like she's supposed to. The question isn't legal, my conscience is waaaaaay clear on that. No, its a "wtf are you (the driver) thinking" ie how does your mistake become our mistake? Anyway, this horse is beaten to death.
Thanks for all the feedback. I am grateful for your thoughts on this strange situation.

+100

Did the police officer know about the 2/3 thing?

I'd go to her insurance anyway, and go for everything. If her insurance won't cave, take them to small claims court.

Alternately, have your bike shop give an estimate that is high - so high, in fact, that her "2/3" is what the normal estimate would be. And then, have them "mysteriously" give you your share in store credit.

Don't do that, it is called fraud and is illegal.

If she keeps her word, then just remember that your word is worth more than the 1/3. Brush it off and move on.
If she breaks her word, slam her with an insurance claim for full cost of everything.

Not true, a cyclist can brake (even with disk brakes) to the max without doing an endo; you just have to do it properly.
Modern cars can stop faster than a cyclist from the same speed.

Going after her insurance is also a gamble. They'll probably give you crap that you went ahead with repairs without giving them having a chance to have an adjuster do an estimate. They may even pull the bullcrap where they'll only pay up to the amount of the fair market value of the bike in it's condition just prior to the accident. So say that their market research shows your bike worth $200 and the bill comes to $300, they'll screw you over $100 measely dollars. They do not care about the value of the bike to you. Only how much they can get with not paying. It doesn't matter if it's a $1000 or $10. Insurance is the biggest racket there is. Since you've already come to an agreement with party at fault, your best bet is to go see the doctor about the chronic pain in your neck.

I just got off the phone w/ the lady. She's meeting me at the store Thursday morning to settle the bill. I believe that she's going to stick to our 2/3rds deal. We both agreed that we just want to get it over with. Also I spoke w/ the witness & he was amused at the arrangement, told me that her car just jumped out into the road, that it surprised him too. Well, all that made me feel better (at least less paranoid).
Now I have to get the bike back in time to shake it down for a 100mile MS 150 ride Sat & Sun.
Thanks again guys.

I think you let her off too easy and she should have paid the whole bill, however I would not break my word over a small repair bill. If you ended up with $1000s of medical bills that you might not have expected then I think that would be an excuse to invalidate the agreement.

How is anyone here thinking the cyclist is partly to blame? When a vehicle runs a red light and causes an accident then the driver of that vehicle is at fault. The only partial fault might be if the vehicle with the ROW could have avoided the accident with reasonable care. Doesn't sound like the case here.

For most bicycles braking is limited by the endo factor. If you brake harder your rear wheel comes up and you crash. Cars are limited by tire adhesion, therefore cars can stop more rapidly. The only reason bikes appear to stop faster is they are usually traveling slower. However I did used to ride a bike that was not limited by an endo and had plenty of braking power, allowing me to stop as fast as nearly any other vehicle. The bike was an Optima Baron lowracer recumbent with disc brakes.



Craig

I'm glad all this is working out, and even if the OP is out 1/3, if he walks away with a clear conscience and no misgivings, they it is money well spent.

Isn't there laws out there about riding within parameters necessary to avoid collision? Like when you are in a line of traffic, stopped at a light, someone hits a car four back from you, but the result of you stopping too close to the car in front of you and the car behind you doing the same means you are pushed into the car in front of you. You are legally responsible for that because you hit that car, not the person at the end of the line who actually caused the accident. Could be some culpability there? Not talking logic here, but law.

If you want to pursue this further, check to see if your bike is covered on your homeowner's or renter's insurance and sick your ins co on their ins co.

IMHO, the reason she says "technically" at fault and "legally" at fault is that, like most other drivers, she doesn't think that traffic law is really binding and that it doesn't really apply to her, just to everyone else.

I picked up the bike last night from the shop. The lady is meeting me at the shop this morning to pay up.
The shop owner was going over the repairs he & his guys did when he noticed something odd about the handlebars - they're bent. *Sigh* Well, he's ordering a salsa h-bar for me that he'll install next week, I'll ride the MS 150 on the bars as they are - not so unsound as to be dangerous (fingers crossed). So that gets the bill to $370 (salsa bars, surly fork, new ultegra shifter, bar tape, etc). We'll see how it goes this morning. A friend of mine, whose husband is a really cool french dude, told my GF that the french are not to be trusted in these things b/c in France they show no respect for driving laws or etiquette. Sounds like a stereotype but if it has any truth, that would explain her attitude. Oh well, like I said, stereotypes.