You are absolutely correct that anyone can get any type of bike they want and clothing from almost any manufacturer to fit their needs.

What you have to understand is that The Rake is a coffee shop paper which is light on facts but high on controversy. There are a few main local bike chains (by chains I mean in the Twin Cities area) which sell what would be considered roadie gear. That isn't to say they don't carry commuter gear, actually they often do, but the high priced items are on show.

We have two bike co-ops here. One is very utilitarian and nice, but the other is rather...um...harsh. The latter will tell you what you want to ride and will tell you to enjoy it. The Rake is supports the later. That bike shop was founded on great ideals, but they just aren't nice people.

They told me I didn't need to use my old rear panniers, but just need a larger messenger bag...even though I already own some nice pannier and a comfy messenger bag. They told my girlfriend they wouldn't warranty any bike she rode (she is over 300 lbs) but the Clyesdale/Athena forum has countered their sillyness.

Just an all around poor LBS.

If you are going to support a shop like that then you need to make everything else look bad. That is the sort of thing The Rake does.

Hey roadies are responsible for all the evils in the world. Didn't you know that? Like you know this one time I was riding my 50 lbs bike in every day clothes, god forbid I look slightly out of ordinary! Anyway this roadie in those tight fitting spandex, looking very gay, on that fancy shmancy bike passed me! How dare he! He didn't even way to me or said on the left. Must be a snob. I mean I wave to every stranger because I am just jolly kind of guy. Why can't that snob do it? It's like he is on some kind of training ride or something. So anyway I jumped on his wheel and hanged on for two blocks, I sure showed him! Next time I see him I'll put a pump in to his spokes because he is a snob who didn't wave, and I am a friendly commuter. Why can't they be like me, and don't give us real cyclists a bad name by riding in those clothes and helmets that cost more then my bike! How dare they! They must be gay, and snobs.
Hmm think that pretty much summarizes most of the posts here, did I miss anything?

DUH!!! DUUDE!! Only the most important part!

The ASS-SLAPPIN'!!!!!!

I'm basically just reporting what most non-cyclists tell me. I agree with you that people are free to wear whatever they want when on a bike (I try to get that point across to friends, relatives and coworkers), but for various reasons explained earlier people seem to associate cycling with spandex and Alien-shaped helmets and want no part of it (I acknowledge that simple laziness is likely the most common reason though). Maybe it is wrong to scapegoat roadies, but it seems to happen a lot; I think mountain biking has done a lot more to promote cycling among the general public.

As for what kind of bikes and clothing, as I said earlier I don't really know. The basic diamond frame bike will always be around, but I think there is a lot of potential for other designs like recumbents (especially the Bacchetta and Volae type bikes) to attract people who don't want to wear padded shorts but still want to go fast and long distance. In this area I believe roadie culture has ******** advancement by dictating what is acceptable, even though other designs have huge advantages in certain areas. In 1930 I would imagine people would have expected human powered vehicles to have more advances (and be in general use) in 2007 than currently are. For clothing, I don't have the slightest clue. Wicking material makes sense for a lot of people, and I personally don't have a problem with it. Mountain bikes made a huge impact on the industry, but maybe it's time for something else to come along and give it a kick in the pants.

"Move over"

Thanks for the name calling.
Check out the date on that post being that I was burned out on life at that time. Fortunately that has reversed itself. Even though I'm hanging on for dear life when it comes to commuting.

Anyhow, I was actually having a reasonable discussion into you popped in. I may disagree with chtorr but it is\was a civil discussion.

+1 This cycling elitism issue has come up before and I think it is so much BS. Absolutely no substance to it other than a reason to complain. According to this logic we should ban NASCAR from TV because it will intimidate people from driving and maybe Tiger Woods too because he keeps people from enjoying golf. WAA ... WAA .... WAAA!!!

Here's another, subtler example of it in practice:

I went to a shop and asked about a road bike. The salesperson was young enough to have been my son. My underfed son. Anyway, as soon as I asked about a road bike the kid put me on a racing-styled bike with an extremely aggressive riding position. I was advised the pain would go away and I would adapt to the position. As soon as I expressed an interest in riding something OTHER than a racing-type bike, HIS interested diminished. So did mine; I bought my bike - a flat bar road bike that doesn't have my head down near my knees - elsewhere.

Get stuffed.

Who the hell are you? Who knows you? Who do you ride with? Who are your friends?

What is your major malfunction?

Yes...you were...and isn't this thread just supposed to be sort of funny and tongue-in-cheek anyway? Even "roadies" were posting on it earlier.

Or have I been reading the SoCal forums too much?

Can't we all just get along, boo hoo...

Off course the sales person is going to try and sell you the most expensive product first. How is this different from buying a car,TV, appliance, or anything other major purchase. That is why savy consumers do their research first.

The racing type bike was less money than the touring bike I asked about. To continue the car analogy, he tried to sell me a sports car when I wanted a station wagon.

C'MON! Time to cowboy-up commuters.

Get passed by a roadie? Pass him right back.

You are the warriors of the streets, you ride every day all year round. You are not "out for a ride", you ARE RIDING, simply riding to get to/from work. You may wear spandex, or not, it doesn't matter. You don't ride in a peleton, you ride with a backpack. Don't plod back and forth on your commute, eat up the competition.

Drop the friggen hammer on everyone you see on the road, e v e r y o n e !

Old ladies?
Smoke 'em

College dork on a hybrid?
Leave him in the dust

Roadie up ahead?
Reel him in

Roadie group passing you?
Jump in the paceline, draft them, pass them.

Then slap yer ass!

Touring bikes are kind of hard to come by at LBSs. Did they have any touring bikes in stock? Maybe in his mind he was just trying to substitute out what he thought was one road bike for another one that was in stock. I don't think a lot of people know about all the nuances that define touring bikes such as long chainstays, etc.

They had a Sequoia in stock. Why he thought the Allez was best for me I don't know. But I can hazard a guess.

Wah-Hooo!!!!

But life wouldn't be fun without a few arguments.

Well carry on then...

Just don't let it get too out of hand. A thread with such a good title should be protected from ending up in the "deleted' pile...

Don't think of SOB as name calling so much as just a figure of speech, but sorry if I offended you. And, yes, my comments have been mostly tongue-in-cheek, but with a point to make and to have a little fun for myself. For instance, I realize that not all roadies are gay -- some of them are just normal people who want to dress up in skin-tight little pink outfits and go out in public to show people their marble bags -- all perfectly normal behavior.

I agree that a little debate is a healthy thing, and the fact that this thread has been read and posted as much as it has, with differing points of view having been expressed, would indicate that there is value to the discussion itself.

No worries. I was feeling a bit pissy that morning.

Can't we all just agree to hate dog walkers instead of other bikers?

I've seen it too. I think it's a function of a bike shop hiring racers rather than salespeople, if that makes any sense.
The racer (roadie or MTB) sees the world defined in terms of the bikes (s)he knows intimately. Other bikes are known to exist, much in the same way we know about life in a place we've never visited. He's met a couple of people from there, maybe seen pictures, but can't really fathom what it's about. There are even a couple around here that commute. Mostly it's on fast, fenderless, rackless, shiny bikes in perfect weather. (those whom I count as friends, I enjoy calling "soft" :-).

A decent sales person, OTOH, exists to move product. Repeat sales move more product, so a really good sales rep actually listens to you. They don't, however, project their own fantasies of glory onto every Bob or Fred that walks or rides through the door.

Good description of the problem. Thanks. It reminds me of another description I read recently.

Roy Wallack, in his book Bike For Life, on page 311 and 312 discusses his experience editing a bike magazine in the early 1990s. One day he rode his Trek 1200 to work, and the staff (roadies) gawked at the fenders, three water bottle cages, lights, food pouch, etc, that had been added to the bike. Wallack mentioned this was the bike he had ridden in Paris-Brest-Paris. A few weeks later he was approached by the publisher. It seems several people on staff had asked that he be fired because they didn't want a "sissy" serving as the voice of the magazine. None of them knew what Paris-Brest-Paris was, or why someone might need lights, fenders, or panniers on a bike. When Wallack later rode with them, it turned out most of these staffers thought bicycles started and ended with a 37 mile fast paced club ride they did every Saturday. The bike shop salesman I described would have fit in with that crowd.

Dog walkers don't wear lycra and gaily colored billboards in public!

Nothing about that is particulary unique to bicycling. People are narrow minded, self absorbed twits pretty much in general, and it doesn't much matter what dimension of human existence you measure, you end up with the same stratification into layers and separtion into snobbish us against them clicques and other cultish behavior.

Politics? Urban vs suburban? Motorcycles? Snowsports? Car hobby?

Ditto. Ditto. Ditto. Ditto. Ditto.

Even with something so seemingly universal as gardening you have the "ultra organic compost my own sh**" crowd diametrically opposed the "nuke everything so I can plant what I want" crowd, and a half dozen other cults like hydroponics, raised beds, square foot methods, drip irrigation fanatics, and on and on and on. To a non gardener, it seems crazy. How hard can it be to stick seed in the ground and let it grow? To the non bicyclists, it seems crazy. How hard can it be to get on a bike and ride? Do you really need all that stuff and all those rules?

Short answer: Only if you care.