wahoonc

Never had to do that on my Raleigh 3 speed and it was ridden year round. Chain only got replaced when it was stretched and that was only every 10,000-12,000 miles or so. I did clean it periodically, more often in the winter season.

Aaron

BarracksSi

That's how I downshift while coming to a stop, too. Plus, my preference for downshifting under braking is why I'll never use twist shifters or brifters (I'm such a noob; I just learned that term!) on a city bike.

Being able to choose a gear while waiting at a light would be that extra selling point to me. Sometimes I wonder if I could get a wide-range internal hub retrofitted to my Bad Boy (they sell Rohloff-equipped versions overseas... ).

thdave

Wow--I loved reading that analysis on gear efficiencies. I agree--I have a 7 speed internal hub and I can notice it when I coast or lolly gag around, I feel some drag. But, when I get some rpm's going, it's not nearly as prevalent. The same trend is quite obvious when I use my generator lights--that's got some drag at low rpm but it's much reduced at the higher rpm's. (Of course, the generator has quite a bit more drag than my hub does.)

I wonder how the new red-line Nexus 8-speed would come out in that work--they advertise it as being more efficient than the previous version.

One other thing with the internal gear hub that no one's mentioned--your chain never falls off. And you never need to look when you change gears--there's nothing to look at.

Obviously, both transmissions have their place. But I think the simplicity of operating an internal gear hub offers some potential for the typical cyclist that's not presently realized.

rhm

One more thing....
I commute on a folding bike with 16" wheels. I realize that's not for everyone -- most commuters use wheels in the 26-27 inch range as have been common since the 1890's. But if you want to use 16" wheels, a derailleur is not a good idea. It hangs way too close to the ground, and you need an unusually large chainring to get up to a "normal" speed. The gear range of the Sturmey-Archer 8-speed hub is perfectly suited to 16" wheels.

robmcl

And I could not disagree more. It took like 8 years and God knows how many miles before I finally wore out a chain ring and a cassette with not so high up STX components. It was adjusted once. I think deraileurs work pretty good. People seem to like to point to the cheapest systems on Wally World bikes and then make sweeping generalizations about the design. Like everything else there is a time and a place for internal hubs but they are not all things to all people as some would like us to believe.

climbhoser

No doubt...I wouldn't believe a well tuned Campy Record or Dura-Ace or Ultegra system would have many problems. Where it gets me is when you ride it really hard every day, it gets grimy and the cable stretches and it starts missing shifts, grinding when you shift, slipping when you crank...etc...

So, then you have to clean the heck out of it, scrubbing it with degreaser then re-lubing and re-tuning. For a heavy commuter this can take place anywhere from once a week to once every six months depending on conditions and use.

Then, you're riding and you shift and your chain falls off. And you spend oh, maybe thirty seconds getting it back on...no biggie.

But, an IGH will never need that level of maintenance to keep it running primo and the chainline is perfect!

Now, would I recommend it to everyone? Nope. No self respecting roadie should be on one, because they're just soooo heavy. But, if you commute year round, rain or shine and don't have time to spend keeping your system primo it's really nice to have a hassle free IGH. Folks in the desert southwest will probably never need such a thing, but folks in Chicago or the NW or even Colorado come across some seriously sloppy conditions and it's REALLY nice to have sealed gears and a trouble free system.

The last argument for IGHs is in rolling terrain mountain biking where your derailleur is exposed and chainslap is a real PITA. It's nice to have a taut chainline and gears that won't get ripped off, and yes it's worth it.

Anyways, derailleurs have a place and they will for a long while yet. Same with IGHs.

1ply

As someone who commutes by dogsled in the wacky north, I will try the derailer route this winter and report how it goes.

Us Canucks sometimes live further south than some of you folks in washington, Montane Minnesota and New York but for some reason, we're the dogsledding northern freaks

climbhoser

Lived in da UP of Michigan for a few moons (east of Sault St. Marie on the southern shore of L. Superior) and while it's far snowier than most folks will ever experience it definitely led me down the IGH only route.

thdave

Great post. That's the issue I had with my derailler bike--I had to scrub the chain monthly and adjust my shifter. The front derailer is the problem child as it causes the chain to fall off. I just ride too often in the wet weather for it. Also, the MUP I'm on has more dirt and debris than the road. My bikes get dirty and lots of it gets on my exposed chain. External derailers don't work well for this.

On my IGH bike, my chain has a chainguard and I doesn't get nearly as dirty. Also, even if it does, it doesn't come off. Shifting is care free.

That said, I can't wait for the day I buy a new roadie with a good quality derailer for weekend fair weather rides (or for perhaps a roadie with a Nexus 8 redline).

joelpalmer

I love my internal 3 speed. Weight isn't really an issue (what's the weight of a hub against the weight of my gut?) Not having anything sticking out is nice - with all of the junk in the roads here I'd be willing to bet I'd have broken a deraileur by now. Shifting down at lights is great because I always get caught at the same light, halfway up an short but steep climb on my way home that if I didn't get caught by the light I could make in normal gear. Mostly though, I like the small gear number because I've never really used more than a couple of gears commuting, here or in CA, and while I'm not ready to go SS yet the internal gets me close to the zen place of biking where there is no shifting to think about.

fender1

I ride both an interal hub road bike (1973 Schwinn World Voyageur w/Shimano Nexus 8) and a 1972 Paramount Touring bike with a Triple (15 Speeds total). The hub bike is set up for the winter when there is a lot of salt,slush and cr*p on the roads so it requires a little less attention than a geared bike. Both bikes are alot of fun and neither is "better" than the other. The Paramount is fun to ride in the Summer & Fall and not have to worry about the elements. It is a bit lighter because it does not have the internal hub and front generator hub. I really don't see that much of a difference between the bikes. You still have to pedal and shift to get where you are going. One is a bit heavier than the other but not so much that is is an issue.

I think the internal hub fans exaggerate the "maintinence" issue while deraileur fans exaggerate the "weight" issue. The thing that I notice that is an issue on the winter bike is the studded Nokian tires! Now that difference I feel when I put them on. After awhile I forget about it but when I put the regular tire on in the spring, I feel alot faster. People like what they like and will defend thier choice as the "right" one. Ride what you like but I say get one of each so you can do your own comparison!

robmcl

I should say that I have. My commuting has taken place in Chicago and Minneapolis but I don't ride in the snow, which in this current climate is like two months a year now. As I said the internal hub has it's time and place and as a hard core winter beater would be one of them, which I would classify as extreme commuting. But for the rest of the year the derailleur system works fine. The Campy Record and Dura-Ace example is ridiculous. My most recent bike was a 90's MTB with medium low STX components. Currently, I use the chain cleaner gizmo and lube once every two months, which takes a whopping 15 minutes to complete. After the initial break in period of a new bike the derailleur hardly ever needs to be adjusted. I just think people are exaggerating the maintenance woos of derailleurs to prove their point.

Industrial

I agree. I have Tiagra on my cross bike which I ride daily and after the initial adjustment it works great. I know that 105 and ultegra work just as good as dura-ace as well. It's just in the feel and weight. My chain maintenance takes around 10 minutes. Having an internal gear setup would mean I wouldn't have to brush off the gears which take all of 2 minutes.

squeakywheel

Seems to me a wheel built around an internal gear hub wouldn't need to be dished. Or at least the dish would be minimal. So, the wheel would be stronger than a similar wheel built for a deraileur.

I think if you are doing the work yourself, an internal gear hub is simpler to adjust and get working than a deraileur.

climbhoser

Dishing on an IGH wheel is nil...so true, stronger, but is it relevant?

As for you guys who have never had a problem with Tiagra well, good on you! 105 has treated me reasonably well, but Tiagra has been persnickity as all get out!

Similarly on the MTB side, STX is crap IMHO. I wouldn't ride anything better than LX on the rear anymore (because they keep getting bashed), but XTR is a huge difference in terms of efficiency and crispness.

STX is like the redheaded stepchild...both Tiagra and STX I usually end up having to OVERSHIFT the rapid fire to get it to shift...meaning I have to go half over the click to get it to go. Pain in the ass!!!!

Maybe I've just been riding longer and had more experiences, but I would never go back to a cheap derailleur system. I would race XC with XTR, maybe as low as LX in back, and I would ride roadie as low as 105 (do, in fact), but I will never settle for Tiagra or STX crappola again...it's just asking for problems.

As for the IGH, take it from a guy who's been racing MTBs for over 15 years and has seen how bad things can get...if you commute year round the Nexus 8 will pay for itself in droves!

robmcl

I guess the STX worked for me as long as it did was because I did not race with it or beat the living H out of it off road. I agree though, if that is what you want to do than the higher up lines are more appropriate.

Speaking of which, that Rohloff hub seems well suited for off road MTBers that beat the H out of everything else.

jpmartineau

I have not tried any, but I suspect that they might be better adapted to winter cycling or cycling in hostile conditions, freezing rain, sand, etc.