Why do you assume those are mutually exclusive? I pack a firearm AND I relax and enjoy life. My Ruger is fine with that. And if someone comes and tries to take my relaxing life away from me and mine, I at least have a chance to blow some holes in the SOB. I've never understood how sitting back and letting violence happen to you is morally superior to stopping it. The fact that "we're all going to die" really has no bearing on whether some a-hole should be able to kill you or worse without any fear of danger to himself.

It probably won't, but then again maybe it will. And then it will be the last thing that does.

Why do you assume that those who choose not to sling a gun are willing to "sit back and let violence happen to them"? A gun is not the only weapon for self defense, and certainly not even always the best. By your own admission above, even you admit that "at least I have a chance...". Sometimes gun slingers even get shot with their own guns. Of course the thought of that happening to you probably never enters your mind.

Your problem is that you think your education will get you out of any situation, and you also think that putting people down will win you an argument, Im sure you get off on it, as I can tell your a freak like that, tell you what, come on down to North Philly and try this BS of yours with anyone of your choice, Id love to see the out come you can also feel free to try to put me down as often as youd like as its all been tried before, all inner city kids get this type of treatment, from school teachers to job interviews and right on up to the leaders of the city and the nation, this is the reply I always give to people like you,"what doesnt kill me makes me stronger" Thanks for taking the time out today and making me so much stronger Please keep this in mind, during the great depresion you didnt see to many poor people commiting suicide, mainly the middle and upper class "know it alls" that lost all thier money as they cant seem to survive without it while "po lil unejabacated folk" like myself just saw it as another day making due with what we had and also dont forget who fights the wars in this country, thats right! The poor folk! We figure what the hell! we've been fighting to survive all our lives! why not get paid for it?! So once again, Thanks for making me/us stronger by training us to fight and showing us how to survive =) someday it will serve us well and thank you for showing us how much better you are with your "fancy" reading and writing skills you just to dambded ejabacated for a po ignant man like myself to keep up wit ya!

"As far as i remember from history, the 'fighting against tyrants' bit was started by the french (they had this little revolution thing which spread across the atlantic), and you lot copied it. 'Course, we were standing up to nazi germany while your current president's grandpappy was selling them weapons, but that doesn't count does it?"

Haha...ummm...you don't remember much from history class then do you? The French Revolution started in 1789. Anyways...I agree about Prescott Bush, he's a giant arse. And most sensible people here (though there is a frighteningly small number of them) don't like that celebrity family crap.

I have always relied on being faster than anything that wanted to catch me and barring that, have some mad skills that have served me well when running wasn't an option.. . and let's not forget that if you are aware of your surrounding and have your wits at hand you can get out of many bad situations.

On my ride home the other night I came across a woman being accosted by some street person / thug... despite being warned to back off he opted to try and go through me... he never knew what hit him.

I was walking to the store one night and was stopped by two youths and one demanded I give them a smoke or they'd kick my ass...

My reply: "Do you know what will kill you faster than smoking ?"

They wisely backed off and left me alone.

I'm not afraid of guns and am actually quite handy with them but even if it was legal here, would not carry one on my ride for any reason.

You are quite wrong. I don't think that those who choose to carry weapons "get their panties in a bunch" because some don't. I've yet to see the post where someone says---"Everybody needs to carry a gun or they're crazy nuts" or something. But the people who have a problem with carrying firearms LOVE to pass judgement on those who do.

Ahh, disregard that. It's way too early here for reading comprehension. Duh.

I can't believe I just waded through 7 pages of this.

I've never been uneasy enough while riding to warrant carrying a weapon of any kind. However, if I lived in Philly things would be different.

I'd carry a gun just in case I needed to defend myself from ilikebikes!

I'm sure you're quite a bit faster.

And in still *other* parts of the world, you wouldn't think of leaving the house without a weapon of some kind. It's a cultural thing--get over it.

I respect the rights of them what want to carry guns, but don't personally carry or own a firearm. There's a New Age thought that if you prepare for the worst, the worst will happen to you--own a gun and you are sending out a message to the universe to f**k with you. Not that I believe that any more than "better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it."

I do carry a small knife, a neat little Kershaw with one-handed, spring-assist opening, that works great for cutting packing tape and prying out staples, but I doubt I would ever use it as a weapon.

In a firearm store the other day I saw this neat little job called a "Carriage Gun" or what anyone in their right mind would call a sawed-off shotgun. Might fit just right where a frame pump would on a bike, with just a little mod or two...

I usually ride with my 3' On Guard chain wrapped around my handlebars. Never thought of it before, but could be a reason I haven't been too severely messed with at all. Not that I could get it unwrapped in time to do much of anything in an emergency situation, but now I'm wondering if just having it in a conspicuous place that looks like it's easy to access is some kind of deterrent.

Ill bet if you came to Philly we would have a great time cruising around and seeing the sites! just dont threaten my life cause Id shoot you in a minute!

If this is your way of trying to make a snide remark about me please continue If not my apologies to you please disregard this reply

well...I'll add this. kids don't find guns in the houses of families that choose not to own them.
My guns (4 rifles and a handgun) are all locked away, far out of reach...impracticably so if there was ever someone in the house. Then again, I have no problem with that bc a criminal in the house is far less likely than a kid finding a gun. As I recall there are far fewer uses of guns in justifiable self defense in the home than there are kids who shoot themselves accidentally, and those that get used in domestic violence, etc.

Gun ownership requires rationalizations based on statistical likelihoods that are often ridiculous. Myself included.


The best weapon for commuting is the grey matter between the ears and the ability to sprint.

I taught my kids from the moment they could understand that guns are dangerous, I also taught them how to safely handle, clean, load, shoot, and respect a weapon, Ive had guns in my home for 24 years and my children that are now grown never touched them, only when it was time to go to the range, my oldest will be graduating college soon and will be a registered Nurse, she owns an AR 15, a Glock, Remington 12 gauge, and a dragunov just like mine, my youngest attends the Barbara Sandanoto School of Ballet and she also buys and sells Japanese dolls, although she enjoys shooting she shows no interest in owning a gun see, its a personal choice to be made by the person, not any of us OR the US government, its all up to the person

My GF smiles and waves

I just came from a ride and must say that I showed absolutely no reactions to the a hole cagers that tried to ruin my ride today and I found that they either get angrier or just forget about you! some other drivers, thats right! DRIVERS! even shouted at the a hole cagers in my defense! someone hold me up.....I think Im going to.....fai.... (THUNK)

The fact that you equate using your brain with merely talking yourself out of a situation just shows that you are indeed an unarmed man.

Semper Fi

That is the smartest thing I have read on this thread. I just might make it my new signature.

I'll weigh in here...personally, I like guns....a lot. I like their feel and weight in my hands. I love hunting rifles with their smooth wooden stocks and incredible accuracy. I like the folding tough guy guns with bannana clips that all the firefighter, cops, and paramilitary type guys seem to always have in their collections. I like the hand guns that I can't hit a thing with. My favorite gun is the 50 cal I fired in the military. The awesome and dreadful power of that weapon was thrilling. The men in my family enjoy shooting when we get together and it is a bonding and fun experience. I even used to love to use guns to blow living animals away. Over my short 35 years, however, I have become a kinder, gentler person and no longer find that fun in any way. I have owned a couple of guns but do not own one right now (largely because it would probably cause a divorce due to having small children in the home).

l think the notion that everyone should carry a gun to thwart crime is just dead wrong. Rather, I believe that more crime would occur. There is currently an middle school teacher arguing that she should be allowed to carry a weapon to school to protect herself and her students. Having worked with hot-headed adolescents for years, I think this argument is erroneous. It is based on the assumption that she will be able to maintain possession of that weapon at all times. Kids are quick to anger, quick to move, and most of them are stronger than your average middle age woman. They don't think things through (for that matter, neither do many hot headed commuters). I could easily envision a situation where a kid got angry at someone, knew there was a gun available, took possession of it, and took his short term anger out their target; thereby creating a long term problem. There is a reason that most on-floor jailers and prison gaurds do not carry; they are not fooling themselves about their ability to maintain possession of their weapon on the floor.

On the other hand, I think that those who argue against private gun ownership are fooling themselves about the ease with which those who have criminal tendencies can operate outside of the law to obtain anything they want and behave any way they choose. I don't think a truer statement has ever been uttered than "when guns are outlawed, only the outlaws will have guns". I believe that people need to be free to choose to protect themselves with deadly force if they want to.

I think there is great wisdom in those who keep guns within the reach of little children making sure that those kids are socialized with guns (as ILIKEBIKES has claimed he has done), know how to use them, know how to respect them, and are allowed to use them often enough that they are not driven toward them in curiousity. For most kids, this means a LOT of time with guns, not having been taken to the range one day a year to watch dad shoot so they could see the power of the weapon. Rather, those kids need to be shooting so much that they are almost satiated with the experience and do not seek it on their own.

So, for me....I am a supporter of private gun ownership but I don't think every hot-headed, tough-guy, reserve-deputy-sherriff-wantabe should be carrying at all times.

Can you be more specific about other countries (war zones excluded) where it's a cultural necessity to carry a weapon (not that carrying a weapon in the US is a cultural necessity)?

There's a big difference between a lack of education due to economic disparity, and taking pride in a lack of education. Being educated and being strong (mentally and physically adept, esp. when considered in a physical confrontation) are not mutually exlusive concepts. That being the case, why is there such hostility in your argument? This is a serious question, not me taking some kind of dig. You've stated that you don't live where you do out of economic necessity, but instead because you see the promise in a developing area. If everyone there harbours the same attitude that you do, will the area ever improve? If it does, will it most likely be through gentrification, at which point it will only reinforce the idea that "rich, educated people only exist to keep the lower class down"?

I have as well (only to stay away from them at this point due to their ages), as my father did with me but I also remember how curious I was as a kid. I can't be sure that on a play date, some kid my kids are friends with has been "trained" or that his parents don't realize his big brother has a gun, or the wife thinks the husband has the weapon secured and locked when in fact it's within a 6yo's reach.

The choices you refer to, while true, result in kids getting killed for no other reason than the parent needing something to feel secure and negate a threat that is less likely than a kid finding and discharging the weapon. They also result in dead spouses when emotions run high and logic is suppressed.

I would like to see some data on this but I would have to guess that you are probably right.

Here's an image that a cop acquaintance gave me.
Kids do not have very strong hands. To pull a trigger requires strength. So most kids who find a gun solve this problem by using their thumbs: two together, the barrel pointing back at them.

I currently use common sense, patience, and failing that, a FOX 40 whistle.

There are days though that I would not mind some sort of non-lethal hand-grenade-type device, maybe something like pepper spray that I could drop in the path (or through the sunroof) of a threat, to give me some time to get away.

I've also thought about obtaining a collapsing / telescopic billy club (3 ft length perfect for indicating the appropriate passing distance for automobiles) that could be stored in a jersey pocket, or pump holder, but never went the distance. Another option would have been a piece of broom handle cut and painted to mimic a Silca frame pump.