best weapons for commuting ?
10-17-07 | 03:09 PM
#201
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 779
Likes: 1
From: Portland, Maine USA
Bikes: Trek 850 Antelope
Some of the items that I presently carry which cannot be bought in a store.
1. common sense.
2. strong legs.
3. knowlege of the area I'm riding in.
Here are the items that I might carry if necessary that can be bought with little or no difficulty. All of these are leagal, easy to obtain, easy to carry, and can be reached when needed;
1. a cell phone to report incidents of altercations, license numbers of cagers, request
assistance, and so on.
2. mace to fend off attackers at short range (animal or human).
3. a whistle or high pitched air horn. These will scare off animals such as dogs.
1. common sense.
2. strong legs.
3. knowlege of the area I'm riding in.
Here are the items that I might carry if necessary that can be bought with little or no difficulty. All of these are leagal, easy to obtain, easy to carry, and can be reached when needed;
1. a cell phone to report incidents of altercations, license numbers of cagers, request
assistance, and so on.
2. mace to fend off attackers at short range (animal or human).
3. a whistle or high pitched air horn. These will scare off animals such as dogs.
Last edited by powerhouse; 10-18-07 at 01:22 PM.
10-17-07 | 10:50 PM
#202
Mirror slap survivor
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,297
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From: Sunny Florida
Bikes: Gunnar Sport, Surly Pacer, Access MTB, Ibex Corrida, one day a Simple City
Why do you assume that those who choose not to sling a gun are willing to "sit back and let violence happen to them"? A gun is not the only weapon for self defense, and certainly not even always the best. By your own admission above, even you admit that "at least I have a chance...". Sometimes gun slingers even get shot with their own guns. Of course the thought of that happening to you probably never enters your mind.
The chances of someone taking a firearm away from someone who is willing to use it are extremely small. As a matter of fact, the chances of somebody doing ANYTHING except running away in fear once a firearm is pointed at them are extremely small. You watch too much TV if you think people actually rush TOWARD someone with a gun.
10-17-07 | 10:52 PM
#203
Mirror slap survivor
Joined: Apr 2005
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From: Sunny Florida
Bikes: Gunnar Sport, Surly Pacer, Access MTB, Ibex Corrida, one day a Simple City
You live in BATON ROUGE. Not exactly a low crime area. If you lived in Ville Platte your point would work. But BR isn't a safe city.
10-17-07 | 10:58 PM
#204
Mirror slap survivor
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,297
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From: Sunny Florida
Bikes: Gunnar Sport, Surly Pacer, Access MTB, Ibex Corrida, one day a Simple City
well...I'll add this. kids don't find guns in the houses of families that choose not to own them.
My guns (4 rifles and a handgun) are all locked away, far out of reach...impracticably so if there was ever someone in the house. Then again, I have no problem with that bc a criminal in the house is far less likely than a kid finding a gun. As I recall there are far fewer uses of guns in justifiable self defense in the home than there are kids who shoot themselves accidentally, and those that get used in domestic violence, etc.
Gun ownership requires rationalizations based on statistical likelihoods that are often ridiculous. Myself included.
The best weapon for commuting is the grey matter between the ears and the ability to sprint.
My guns (4 rifles and a handgun) are all locked away, far out of reach...impracticably so if there was ever someone in the house. Then again, I have no problem with that bc a criminal in the house is far less likely than a kid finding a gun. As I recall there are far fewer uses of guns in justifiable self defense in the home than there are kids who shoot themselves accidentally, and those that get used in domestic violence, etc.
Gun ownership requires rationalizations based on statistical likelihoods that are often ridiculous. Myself included.
The best weapon for commuting is the grey matter between the ears and the ability to sprint.
I think you're confusing your statistics. The statistics for "kids killed with firearms" include people up to age 19---including gang members and criminals killed in street crime.
Your child has a greater chance of dying in your swimming pool than of "accidentally shooting himself". I grew up in a law enforcement household. Dad kept his rifles in a glass-fronted gun cabinet, to which I knew the key. He had a loaded pistol in his nightstand, and his duty weapon in his gunbelt hung on a hook in his closet. I never shot myself or anyone else. Why? Because he educated me about firearms and TOOK THE MYSTERY AWAY. They were "just guns". I knew he would take me shooting anytime I wanted, and I felt no great lust for them. The kids whose parents hide guns from them and treat them as some taboo objects are the ones whose kids play with them and get in trouble, IMHO. If a kid is totally ignorant about firearms and firearms safety, he's more likely to do something stupid when he finds a firearm, simply because he doesn't know right from wrong.
10-17-07 | 11:03 PM
#205
Mirror slap survivor
Joined: Apr 2005
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From: Sunny Florida
Bikes: Gunnar Sport, Surly Pacer, Access MTB, Ibex Corrida, one day a Simple City
That is the smartest thing I have read on this thread. I just might make it my new signature.
I'll weigh in here...personally, I like guns....a lot. I like their feel and weight in my hands. I love hunting rifles with their smooth wooden stocks and incredible accuracy. I like the folding tough guy guns with bannana clips that all the firefighter, cops, and paramilitary type guys seem to always have in their collections. I like the hand guns that I can't hit a thing with. My favorite gun is the 50 cal I fired in the military. The awesome and dreadful power of that weapon was thrilling. The men in my family enjoy shooting when we get together and it is a bonding and fun experience. I even used to love to use guns to blow living animals away. Over my short 35 years, however, I have become a kinder, gentler person and no longer find that fun in any way. I have owned a couple of guns but do not own one right now (largely because it would probably cause a divorce due to having small children in the home).
l think the notion that everyone should carry a gun to thwart crime is just dead wrong. Rather, I believe that more crime would occur. There is currently an middle school teacher arguing that she should be allowed to carry a weapon to school to protect herself and her students. Having worked with hot-headed adolescents for years, I think this argument is erroneous. It is based on the assumption that she will be able to maintain possession of that weapon at all times. Kids are quick to anger, quick to move, and most of them are stronger than your average middle age woman. They don't think things through (for that matter, neither do many hot headed commuters). I could easily envision a situation where a kid got angry at someone, knew there was a gun available, took possession of it, and took his short term anger out their target; thereby creating a long term problem. There is a reason that most on-floor jailers and prison gaurds do not carry; they are not fooling themselves about their ability to maintain possession of their weapon on the floor.
On the other hand, I think that those who argue against private gun ownership are fooling themselves about the ease with which those who have criminal tendencies can operate outside of the law to obtain anything they want and behave any way they choose. I don't think a truer statement has ever been uttered than "when guns are outlawed, only the outlaws will have guns". I believe that people need to be free to choose to protect themselves with deadly force if they want to.
I think there is great wisdom in those who keep guns within the reach of little children making sure that those kids are socialized with guns (as ILIKEBIKES has claimed he has done), know how to use them, know how to respect them, and are allowed to use them often enough that they are not driven toward them in curiousity. For most kids, this means a LOT of time with guns, not having been taken to the range one day a year to watch dad shoot so they could see the power of the weapon. Rather, those kids need to be shooting so much that they are almost satiated with the experience and do not seek it on their own.
So, for me....I am a supporter of private gun ownership but I don't think every hot-headed, tough-guy, reserve-deputy-sherriff-wantabe should be carrying at all times.
I'll weigh in here...personally, I like guns....a lot. I like their feel and weight in my hands. I love hunting rifles with their smooth wooden stocks and incredible accuracy. I like the folding tough guy guns with bannana clips that all the firefighter, cops, and paramilitary type guys seem to always have in their collections. I like the hand guns that I can't hit a thing with. My favorite gun is the 50 cal I fired in the military. The awesome and dreadful power of that weapon was thrilling. The men in my family enjoy shooting when we get together and it is a bonding and fun experience. I even used to love to use guns to blow living animals away. Over my short 35 years, however, I have become a kinder, gentler person and no longer find that fun in any way. I have owned a couple of guns but do not own one right now (largely because it would probably cause a divorce due to having small children in the home).
l think the notion that everyone should carry a gun to thwart crime is just dead wrong. Rather, I believe that more crime would occur. There is currently an middle school teacher arguing that she should be allowed to carry a weapon to school to protect herself and her students. Having worked with hot-headed adolescents for years, I think this argument is erroneous. It is based on the assumption that she will be able to maintain possession of that weapon at all times. Kids are quick to anger, quick to move, and most of them are stronger than your average middle age woman. They don't think things through (for that matter, neither do many hot headed commuters). I could easily envision a situation where a kid got angry at someone, knew there was a gun available, took possession of it, and took his short term anger out their target; thereby creating a long term problem. There is a reason that most on-floor jailers and prison gaurds do not carry; they are not fooling themselves about their ability to maintain possession of their weapon on the floor.
On the other hand, I think that those who argue against private gun ownership are fooling themselves about the ease with which those who have criminal tendencies can operate outside of the law to obtain anything they want and behave any way they choose. I don't think a truer statement has ever been uttered than "when guns are outlawed, only the outlaws will have guns". I believe that people need to be free to choose to protect themselves with deadly force if they want to.
I think there is great wisdom in those who keep guns within the reach of little children making sure that those kids are socialized with guns (as ILIKEBIKES has claimed he has done), know how to use them, know how to respect them, and are allowed to use them often enough that they are not driven toward them in curiousity. For most kids, this means a LOT of time with guns, not having been taken to the range one day a year to watch dad shoot so they could see the power of the weapon. Rather, those kids need to be shooting so much that they are almost satiated with the experience and do not seek it on their own.
So, for me....I am a supporter of private gun ownership but I don't think every hot-headed, tough-guy, reserve-deputy-sherriff-wantabe should be carrying at all times.
10-17-07 | 11:08 PM
#206
Mirror slap survivor
Joined: Apr 2005
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From: Sunny Florida
Bikes: Gunnar Sport, Surly Pacer, Access MTB, Ibex Corrida, one day a Simple City
I have as well (only to stay away from them at this point due to their ages), as my father did with me but I also remember how curious I was as a kid. I can't be sure that on a play date, some kid my kids are friends with has been "trained" or that his parents don't realize his big brother has a gun, or the wife thinks the husband has the weapon secured and locked when in fact it's within a 6yo's reach.
The choices you refer to, while true, result in kids getting killed for no other reason than the parent needing something to feel secure and negate a threat that is less likely than a kid finding and discharging the weapon. They also result in dead spouses when emotions run high and logic is suppressed.
The choices you refer to, while true, result in kids getting killed for no other reason than the parent needing something to feel secure and negate a threat that is less likely than a kid finding and discharging the weapon. They also result in dead spouses when emotions run high and logic is suppressed.
Kids are far more likely to die in swimming pools. Do you worry that your kid will drown at a friends' house?
10-18-07 | 07:08 AM
#208
Senior Member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,508
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Um, wasn't Nicole Brown Simpson STABBED TO DEATH? Look, I understand your feelings on firearms. They make you uncomfortable. That's OK. But you keep making up statistics to back your case, and what you claim just isn't true, or is so rare as to not be of any importance. The vast majority of shootings in the US are committed by criminals---against other criminals. Are spouses shot during domestics? Sure. But they are also choked, stabbed, run over with cars(see the crazed dentist in Texas), lit on fire, and beaten to death.
Kids are far more likely to die in swimming pools. Do you worry that your kid will drown at a friends' house?
Kids are far more likely to die in swimming pools. Do you worry that your kid will drown at a friends' house?
I'm not making up stats; I didn't mention any. I believe I stated I was surmising the numbers or something to that effect. It's been quite a while since I took crim stats, but I still recall that the number of times a firearm was used in justifiable self defense was minuscule as compared to the number of firearms in production and in households and also eclipised by the numbers of times they end up being used in domestic violence. The fact that a knife could have been used or choking...those are strawman arguments. The point is that a gun gets used because it's handy and in the household. If you're worried about home intrusion, a home alarm is likely to solve the problem all together.
The pool argument is pretty weak and it's completely unrelated. I know whose houses have pools and my kids learned to swim at the age of 3. I don't know who has an unsecured firearm. We're talking about the most likely use of a firearm statistically in a home.
I'd love to see some stats on it from some one other than an nra funded lobbying firm or ultra liberal anti-gun camp. I could certainly be wrong.
10-18-07 | 07:43 AM
#210
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,760
Likes: 0
From: San Francisco
Bikes: Steelman eurocross, Surly CrossCheck, IRO Rob Roy...
Some of the items that I presently carry cannot be bought in a store.
1. common sense.
2. strong legs.
3. knowlege of the area I'm riding in.
Here are the items that I might carry if necessary that can be bought with little or no difficulty. All of these are leagal, easy to obtain, easy to carry, and can be reached when needed;
1. a cell phone to report incidents of altercations, license numbers of cagers, request
assistance, and so on.
2. mace to fend off attackers at short range (animal or human).
3. a whistle or high pitched horn. These will scare off animals such as dogs.
1. common sense.
2. strong legs.
3. knowlege of the area I'm riding in.
Here are the items that I might carry if necessary that can be bought with little or no difficulty. All of these are leagal, easy to obtain, easy to carry, and can be reached when needed;
1. a cell phone to report incidents of altercations, license numbers of cagers, request
assistance, and so on.
2. mace to fend off attackers at short range (animal or human).
3. a whistle or high pitched horn. These will scare off animals such as dogs.
A very smart rider who will live a very long time.
10-18-07 | 07:56 AM
#211
Super Moderator
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,805
Likes: 868
From: Greenwood Indiana
Bikes: Surly Crosscheck
The thing I dont get, with the anti gun people it is more than a phobia, it is kinda like a phobia with a cult following. I am not a real activist, I dont belong to the IRA. Guns are tools.
10-18-07 | 08:19 AM
#212
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2006
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From: Columbus, OH
Bikes: '08 Surly Cross-Check, 2011 Redline Conquest Pro, 2012 Spesh FSR Comp EVO, 2015 Trek Domane 6.2 disc
Could be a typo, could be what you actually meant... I'm not for certain. The IRA is the Irish Republican Army, and it would follow that if you're not an activist (for their cause) you wouldn't belong to the IRA. They're known for their marksmanship (consider the South Armagh Brigade) so they fit in with the whole firearm argument. Then again, you're in Indiana so you might have meant the NRA.
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10-18-07 | 08:20 AM
#213
Pedaled too far.
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 12,851
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From: La Petite Roche
As a former TOW missile system tech, I always wondered about having a TOW missile on my bike to dispatch bothersome vehicles. In real life, the Zefal HPX pump will have to do.
10-18-07 | 10:37 AM
#215
K2ProFlex baby!
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: My response would have been something along the lines of: "Does your bike have computer controlled suspension? Then shut your piehole, this baby is from the future!"
Bikes: to many to list
There's a big difference between a lack of education due to economic disparity, and taking pride in a lack of education. Being educated and being strong (mentally and physically adept, esp. when considered in a physical confrontation) are not mutually exlusive concepts. That being the case, why is there such hostility in your argument? This is a serious question, not me taking some kind of dig. You've stated that you don't live where you do out of economic necessity, but instead because you see the promise in a developing area. If everyone there harbours the same attitude that you do, will the area ever improve? If it does, will it most likely be through gentrification, at which point it will only reinforce the idea that "rich, educated people only exist to keep the lower class down"?
I was pretty much a hostile kid due to growing up in a hositle area, I reacted to violence with violence, if any of you out there in this forum grew up in a bad area of your city you know that trying to talk your way out of things or running away gets you hurt or dead in the long run, I tried talking and running and "the mind game" and it didnt get me anywhere or anything but another a55 kicking, I guess in your mind this would make me uneducated? now Im not being a wise a55, Im just asking if this would be what you think?
when I fought back is when I was left alone, thats where the "hostility in my argument" comes from 
my attitude is a result of it too, although it only seems to come out when Im replying to a post I feel is trying to put someone down as I feel you did when you started correcting my spelling 
"If everyone there harbours the same attitude that you do, will the area ever improve?" what? people with money are immune to attitudes? what kind of a question is that!? tells me a little about your line of thinking! 80% of the people in my area are cant afford living here, sad to say but it doesnt make it any less true, and 80% of my neighbors are good people that happen to be poor, they are currently being pushed/tricked into moving to the "new ghettos" where theyll be pinned down yet again 
Ill be one of the few that will stay and enjoy the new area because it will be my new OLD neighborhood, as I stated above my "attitude" only comes out when I need it to (maybe Ill be the only guy in the area with a controlable attitude?!) and yes the rich do exist to keep the poor poor, thats what gentrification is all about, moving the poor to make the rich just a bit more comfortable, and I will enjoy my new area well, what I will not do is forget who I am and where I come from and who my REAL friends are If everyone was rich, who would they have to look down on? 
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You see, their morals, their code...it's a bad joke, dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be. I'll show you. When the chips are down, these...These "civilized" people...they'll eat each other. See, I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve
You see, their morals, their code...it's a bad joke, dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be. I'll show you. When the chips are down, these...These "civilized" people...they'll eat each other. See, I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve
10-18-07 | 10:39 AM
#216
K2ProFlex baby!
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,134
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From: My response would have been something along the lines of: "Does your bike have computer controlled suspension? Then shut your piehole, this baby is from the future!"
Bikes: to many to list
Yeah, Ive noticed a few grammer nazis in the house
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You see, their morals, their code...it's a bad joke, dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be. I'll show you. When the chips are down, these...These "civilized" people...they'll eat each other. See, I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve
You see, their morals, their code...it's a bad joke, dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be. I'll show you. When the chips are down, these...These "civilized" people...they'll eat each other. See, I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve
10-18-07 | 10:59 AM
#217
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,401
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Yeah, Ive noticed a few grammer nazis in the house
If you look, sound, or act uneducated while representing your cause -- especially one where the ignorant redneck steretype is already in force -- you are likely to be ridiculed by opponents of the cause and yelled at by supporters of it. And it's not about the occasional typo or misplaced apostrophe, nor whether you actually are uneducated or stupid. It's merely about how you present your argument to the world. If it looks like a text message from a 7th grader's cell phone, it only provides fuel for your "enemies" and disgust from your supporters.
10-18-07 | 11:33 AM
#218
Haunted
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 218
Likes: 2
From: Elsewhere
Bikes: brandomly generic 29er
Originally Posted by Six jours
A few years back some reporters showed up at the annual NRA convention. In a crowd full of suits, the reporters headed straight toward the mouth-breathing moron in the full camo get-up, who was only too happy to drool on cue.
You're talking about Ted Nugent, right?
Seriously; somebody should give that guy a bike.
10-18-07 | 04:49 PM
#219
All Bikes All The Time
Joined: Feb 2005
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From: Boise, ID
Bikes: Giant TCR 0, Lemond Zurich, Giant NRS 1, Jamis Explorer Beater/Commuter, Peugeot converted single speed
Maybe, but there is something sexy about a smoking hot wife who is a great hunter. Maybe its just the smoking hot part
10-18-07 | 06:27 PM
#220
K2ProFlex baby!
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 6,134
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From: My response would have been something along the lines of: "Does your bike have computer controlled suspension? Then shut your piehole, this baby is from the future!"
Bikes: to many to list
A few years back some reporters showed up at the annual NRA convention. In a crowd full of suits, the reporters headed straight toward the mouth-breathing moron in the full camo get-up, who was only too happy to drool on cue. The result, of course, being exactly what the left-leaning network execs were hoping for: the unspoken message that gun owners are uneducated hicks who can't string together a coherent sentence, let alone make rational arguments for constitutional rights.
If you look, sound, or act uneducated while representing your cause -- especially one where the ignorant redneck steretype is already in force -- you are likely to be ridiculed by opponents of the cause and yelled at by supporters of it. And it's not about the occasional typo or misplaced apostrophe, nor whether you actually are uneducated or stupid. It's merely about how you present your argument to the world. If it looks like a text message from a 7th grader's cell phone, it only provides fuel for your "enemies" and disgust from your supporters.
If you look, sound, or act uneducated while representing your cause -- especially one where the ignorant redneck steretype is already in force -- you are likely to be ridiculed by opponents of the cause and yelled at by supporters of it. And it's not about the occasional typo or misplaced apostrophe, nor whether you actually are uneducated or stupid. It's merely about how you present your argument to the world. If it looks like a text message from a 7th grader's cell phone, it only provides fuel for your "enemies" and disgust from your supporters.
I seem to do a whole lot better when Im on my own anyways
__________________
You see, their morals, their code...it's a bad joke, dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be. I'll show you. When the chips are down, these...These "civilized" people...they'll eat each other. See, I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve
You see, their morals, their code...it's a bad joke, dropped at the first sign of trouble. They're only as good as the world allows them to be. I'll show you. When the chips are down, these...These "civilized" people...they'll eat each other. See, I'm not a monster. I'm just ahead of the curve
10-18-07 | 07:46 PM
#222
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 6,401
Likes: 19
Well, I'm not much of a Nugent fan myself. Too much "God, guts, and guns" for my taste. I think the best argument against excessive gun control is quietly put forth by the millions of regular folks who live regular lives and happen to own guns. I'm personally turned off by loud, in-your-face proponents of pretty much any agenda. Rosie O'Donell and Ted Nugent are two sides of the same obnoxious coin, IMO.
10-19-07 | 08:39 AM
#223
Senior Member
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 155
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Getting back to tools of the trade ... besides mace, a club is a very deadly weapon and much better than a knife in a altercation. Your full length tire pump could be used to 'Kick Butt" if need be.
Those Oak "Tire Checkers" sold in big road side truck stops are the best, and there are ways to have one on you, or in your panniers if you so desire :-)
You need them to check your tires don't you (you must check for dead spots)?
wll
Those Oak "Tire Checkers" sold in big road side truck stops are the best, and there are ways to have one on you, or in your panniers if you so desire :-)
You need them to check your tires don't you (you must check for dead spots)?
wll
10-19-07 | 08:57 AM
#224
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2007
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Traditional Scottish attire includes a short knife.
A friend of mine brought me a spear from Tanzania--he spent two years there with his wife in the Peace Corps. I asked if it was some kind of touristy thing, and he said no, all the males in the village he was staying in carried them. I asked why and he said "Thieves and hyenas." He also reported that them what could afford guns, carried them fairly casually, but that it seemed as much of a status symbol as for any useful purpose for all the (non)use they got.
I'm sure there are more, but these are a few I know of right off the bat. I'm really glad to live in a part of the world, in a time when I don't feel it necessary to carry a weapon. Having said that, I am also glad I live in a "must issue" concealed-carry permit state which specifically has wording in the constitution saying no laws shall be passed which might infringe on my right to own firearms.