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Originally Posted by recumelectric
(Post 7644339)
What happened to the word "no" anyway?
The other situation is where saying "No" to sexual advances carries implied or stated negative ramifications in other areas, i.e. I didn't sleep w/ the Director so I didn't get the lead role, I turned down the boss for a date and got a terrible job performance review the next week. That's the other pattern that companies try to avoid by banning boss-subordinate relationships, etc. How any of that is unfair to men is beyond me. Unless it's a man who thinks it's his right to exploit women or ignore them when they say no.:notamused: |
Originally Posted by DataJunkie
(Post 7638276)
Watch out or I may just email you a 1024x768 picture of my arse.
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not blonde but brown... and braided.
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Originally Posted by DataJunkie
(Post 7646384)
not blonde but brown... and braided.
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Originally Posted by recumelectric
(Post 7637747)
I believe that's the first time I've seen a camel toe on a man.
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Originally Posted by recumelectric
(Post 6998609)
Ok, guys! First, I don't have the camera and scanner to do this. If I did, I'd ask e v e r y o n e to post their legs. Second, I'm pretty sure that quite a few of you sculpted gods and goddesses would be diss'ing me. I'm just happy that someone was visually stimulated.
I have a picture of my knee in my avatar, does that count? :) |
Originally Posted by brokenknee
(Post 7647183)
I have a picture of my knee in my avatar, does that count? :)
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Originally Posted by bizzz111
(Post 7638967)
reminder, it's only sexual harassment if the dude is ugly:
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Originally Posted by nashcommguy
(Post 7648640)
Said it myself for years, but Chris Rock's got the quote: "If Clarence Thomas had looked like Denzel Washington, Anita Hill wouldn't been talkin' sexual harrassment, she'd been talkin' sexual fulfilment..."
I wouldn't take that crap off Denzel, either. Hopefully, he'll be a bit more suave when he hits on me. :D |
Obviously, some of you guys don't get it, so here's some instructions regarding Creepy vs. Not Creepy. It's all based on real-life scenarios.
1) * Average looking guy in college asking if I'd like to go out sometime and then taking me to a decent restaurant and having a nice talk.--Not Creepy. (Wins more dates.) * College football star taking me to a movie, where I couldn't even focus on the film for having to pull his octopus-like arms and hands off my body every 30 seconds.--Creepy :p 2) * Average looking guy at work asking me if I'd like to go out sometime.--Not Creepy (He ended up getting a few years of my time.) * Married supervisor with 2 kids asking the above average looking guy about the size of my nipples in comparison to various U.S. coin denominations--Creepy :p 3) * Average looking guy who hung out with me, talked and listened to the "real" stuff.--Gay :cry:, but not creepy. * Physically attractive guy in college bragging about how all the girls love to suck his d--- (while most of us believed he was a closet case). Definitely creepy. :p 4) * Co-worker casually telling me that I looked "cute" when dressing up to go out after work.--Not creepy. (I'd have been willing to explore options with that one, but he was just getting off a bad relationship.) * Co-worker asking me and every other single woman in my workplace out.--Creepy :p 5) * Co-worker (at least 20 years older than me) asking me to turn around so he can see my calves, then commenting that I'm a biker, and then going back to his other joking around--Not creepy. (I might have considered that one, if I were single. He seemed like fun.) *Co-worker (my age) staring at my b00bs the entire time I approach and at my @$$ until I turn the corner--Creepy. :p ...Hopefully, this is enough to give the moral of the story: It ain't about the looks. Be respectful and you won't get grief. You might even get some. ;) |
Originally Posted by recumelectric
(Post 7648606)
:innocent: :love: Battle scars are sexy. :D Did you do that on your bike?
No I wish I could say I did it on my bike, but I fell off a ladder and pulled some 2X8s down on top of me. One landed just right and took out my knee (lower tibia plateau). Have been out of work since July 5th. Just got the OK to go back on the 1st of November. The doctor just let me start walking on it a little over two weeks ago. First day off the crutches got on the bike. It was a rather short/slow ride but it felt good. :) |
Originally Posted by lil brown bat
(Post 7638341)
That is correct. However, as in a workplace, it's prudent to also think about folks who overhear you and not just those that you're addressing directly. If another person comes into my cube and holds a detailed conversation with my cubemate about how they're going to swap bodily fluids, how I feel about the conversation is somewhat at issue -- it affects my workplace even though I'm not being addressed directly.
Now, of course BF isn't a workplace, and people are here voluntarily, so there are some differences. However, remember too that sexual harassment didn't start out as, and isn't exclusively, a legal definition. An unwelcome advance to a co-worker was sexual harassment before there was a law making it illegal in the workplace; likewise, in an internet forum such as BikeForums, there's still such a thing as sexual harassment, despite the fact that it's rarely (if ever) legally actionable. Another downside of the exclusive focus on legal definitions is the fact that people are less able (willing?) to recognize plain old-fashioned objectionable behavior for what it is, simply because the behavior is within the bounds of what's legally allowed. It isn't illegal in the United States to walk down the street and refer to some random stranger using a derogatory racial or sexual epithet. It is crude, crass, antisocial and objectionable, but if anyone says so, immediately half a dozen people bellow about the crude, crass, antisocial, objectionable person's legal rights to free speech. It erodes civility. When we care only about what's legal and have no concern for what is right, that's what creates a society where you need to have things like sexual harassment laws, rather than being able to count on people to behave in a civilized manner. |
Originally Posted by pacificaslim
(Post 7642389)
And this is exactly why "sexual harassment" is so unfair to men. Studies have shown that women base their definition of it based on how they feel about the attractiveness of the man than the actual behavior itself. Getting a compliment from an attractive guy is something they like. But the same exact words from a "creepy" guy will get that guy in big trouble.
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Originally Posted by recumelectric
(Post 7644191)
It is unfair if the guy or gal is blamed for an unanticipated negative response. I think it is fair if the "harassed" individual has already made it clear that the advances are unwanted and those advances continue. In other words, it should be OK to try, but not OK to continue if the other person says to stop it.
Oh, here's another strange workplace scenario I was in. I was actually dating my supervisor when it happened. (Obviously, I had no complaint with his advances.) We went to a party with his supervisor. drinking was involved, and I popped off some smarty-pants flirtatious comments to supervisor's supervisor who had already started it. I figured it didn't mean anything since the guy was married and I was there with my boyfriend. ...Next thing, the guy was propositioning me to go to bed with him and his wife! :eek: I told him no, and that I thought we were just kidding around, etc.. There was no further pursuit. Aside from me having to calm down a drunk boyfriend who wanted to physically kick his @$$, end of story, right? Wrong. First, the guy, who normally had nothing to do directly with my worksite, showed up to make a big deal about how we were good buddies and wanted to be sure I wasn't "intimidated" by him. I told him that I wasn't his buddy, I wasn't intimidated, but I really needed to be working instead of re-hashing events with him. Story continued even after I left the company for a better job. I got a call from the security director a couple of months later to make sure I hadn't quit because of this incident. :wtf: Apparently, some other employee who was PO'd at the supervisor, went off verbally, and dragged my story into his rant. I was asked all kinds of detailed questions about something that I figured was over a long time ago. My statement to the security director was pretty much, "Everyone, including me, showed poor judgement on that night. It didn't happen at work. I wasn't harmed or traumatized. And it's over. If I had serious issues, I would have brought it up myself." Then I was assured that I could have a job with the company at any time, etc.. ...Amazing. :rolleyes: I am pretty hardcore about women's rights and "No means no." But when one stupid night makes for ongoing drama and legal butt-covering, we have gone too far. You're quite right, we've gone too far. And I'll wager we'll never go back to common sense, either. Your story is one of the more bizarre instances I've ever heard, but it's not unique. |
Originally Posted by recumelectric
(Post 7644339)
I'm not going to argue the men-women point. I think it's unfair to anyone who might try to make a date with someone else in the workplace. And honestly, a lot of folks meet people they would like to date in the workplace.
There's nothing wrong with not wanting to have a flirtatious or amorous relationship with a co-worker or supervisior. However, it is wrong to assume that others can read your mind and should be penalized for not knowing in advance that you aren't interested. Seriously, I felt way more violated by all the legal @$$-covering maneuvers than the original proposition for a threesome that I described above. What happened to the word "no" anyway? |
Originally Posted by Fremdchen
(Post 7644708)
When a person says "No" but it's interpreted as "Maybe, if you press the issue. I'm just being coy." and further advances continue, it's sexual harassment.
The other situation is where saying "No" to sexual advances carries implied or stated negative ramifications in other areas, i.e. I didn't sleep w/ the Director so I didn't get the lead role, I turned down the boss for a date and got a terrible job performance review the next week. That's the other pattern that companies try to avoid by banning boss-subordinate relationships, etc. How any of that is unfair to men is beyond me. Unless it's a man who thinks it's his right to exploit women or ignore them when they say no.:notamused: May I add that the poster who said she complied with her supervisor's request to turn and pose so he could admire her legs is making it worse for everyone else in the office. Worse for the female employees who now may correctly conclude that either a) they don't measure up in the leg department, or b) they can expect to be asked to pose as well, and c) the male employees have been signalled that this behavior is permissable and encouraged in the workplace, and d) perhaps some different but equivalent behaviors are permissable as well? This is why corporations like to say they have a "zero tolerance" policy on sexual harassment in the workplace; it's much simpler to administer if every complaint is accepted on its face as equally valid, and there's no room for bargaining. So why is it unfair to men? Men do not take offense at compliments or flirting so much. But women often do, and the presence of a system that allows complaints to be filed anonymously with no chance of reprisal, and no need to say "no" or to confront the man, well... it's too easy to take advantage of the system to file complaints about harassment, real or imagined. |
My calfs was groped once from a CCC, cool cycling chick. I guess she couldn't help herself. :-)
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Originally Posted by recumelectric
(Post 6998455)
I would'a been sexual harassment, but I liked it. A supervisor at my temp job asked me today to turn around and stand on tip-toes. I had no clue why he was asking that, but I still did it because he can be kind of funny and I wondered what was coming next.
When I did it, he said, "Oh yeah. Look at those calves! She's a biker." I said, "That ain't nothin'! I'm not even in good shape right now." So, basically, my supervisor got by with staring at and complimenting my legs, and I liked it. |
Originally Posted by recumelectric
(Post 7648790)
Obviously, some of you guys don't get it, so here's some instructions regarding Creepy vs. Not Creepy. It's all based on real-life scenarios.
1) * Average looking guy in college asking if I'd like to go out sometime and then taking me to a decent restaurant and having a nice talk.--Not Creepy. (Wins more dates.) * College football star taking me to a movie, where I couldn't even focus on the film for having to pull his octopus-like arms and hands off my body every 30 seconds.--Creepy :p 2) * Average looking guy at work asking me if I'd like to go out sometime.--Not Creepy (He ended up getting a few years of my time.) * Married supervisor with 2 kids asking the above average looking guy about the size of my nipples in comparison to various U.S. coin denominations--Creepy :p 3) * Average looking guy who hung out with me, talked and listened to the "real" stuff.--Gay :cry:, but not creepy. * Physically attractive guy in college bragging about how all the girls love to suck his d--- (while most of us believed he was a closet case). Definitely creepy. :p 4) * Co-worker casually telling me that I looked "cute" when dressing up to go out after work.--Not creepy. (I'd have been willing to explore options with that one, but he was just getting off a bad relationship.) * Co-worker asking me and every other single woman in my workplace out.--Creepy :p 5) * Co-worker (at least 20 years older than me) asking me to turn around so he can see my calves, then commenting that I'm a biker, and then going back to his other joking around--Not creepy. (I might have considered that one, if I were single. He seemed like fun.) *Co-worker (my age) staring at my b00bs the entire time I approach and at my @$$ until I turn the corner--Creepy. :p ...Hopefully, this is enough to give the moral of the story: It ain't about the looks. Be respectful and you won't get grief. You might even get some. ;) |
I used to work in an office where more than 90 percent of the staff were female and there were more than a few that said things "I wish I had your legs" or "how do you get legs like THAT ?" and even a few of the guys asked me how one gets such ripped calves.
(I was on track to be riding nearly 10,000 miles that year). Now I work as a bike messenger and if I thought my legs were in good shape then... I was in the elevator the other day with a guy and a nice looking woman (a little older than me) and the guy said "man...you must be cold" and I jokingly said that if I was showing some leg it couldn't be that cold... He defensively said "I don't notice such things" and as he and the lady stepped out of the elevator the woman smiles and says... "I did". :o This happened again the other day when I was making some small talk with some ladies I had never seen on my morning runs... I said that since this was the first time we had met they could not possibly know how I liked my coffee but that I'd be here everyday at about 10:45... :D One of them smiled and said... I hope this isn't the last time we meet. I am sure I am nearly old enough to have been this young ladies father ! But I wasn't offended. :D |
Originally Posted by Fremdchen
(Post 7644708)
When a person says "No" but it's interpreted as "Maybe, if you press the issue. I'm just being coy." and further advances continue, it's sexual harassment.
The other situation is where saying "No" to sexual advances carries implied or stated negative ramifications in other areas, i.e. I didn't sleep w/ the Director so I didn't get the lead role, I turned down the boss for a date and got a terrible job performance review the next week. That's the other pattern that companies try to avoid by banning boss-subordinate relationships, etc. How any of that is unfair to men is beyond me. Unless it's a man who thinks it's his right to exploit women or ignore them when they say no.:notamused: There is truly creepy behavior like a boss expecting sexual favors in exchange for better pay or career opportunities. The problem is that "unwanted sexual advancement" is very much open to interpretation and could include something as simple as asking somebody out. Guys can be really clumsy about this and genuinely not know ahead of time whether it's going to be welcome or not. So not only are they risking rejection, but also the prospect of a visit from a supervisor telling them to leave so and so alone. Kinda sucks. In practice I doubt this happens very much as long as there is some common sense applied by both management and employees. Unfortunately there are people who are sticklers for the letter of the law rather than the spirit. The feeling of unfairness most likely comes from the perception (valid or not) that relatively innocuous behavior is selectively reported and punished along with the truly creepy behavior. Also the perception of unfairness comes from the feeling that men are more likely to be punished for borderline creepy behavior than women. About 15 years ago I was working at a large company that had just gone through the process of educating all its employees on its workplace harassment policies the year before. I'm sitting in my female supervisor's office when she literally shakes her boobs at me. I am not kidding. I don't even remember what brought it about. It's not like we had a history of that kind of bawdy behavior with each other. She only did it to get a reaction out of me. Was it harassment? I don't think so, but it was definitely inappropriate and awkward. I was surprised and a bit embarrassed. She did this type of thing from time to time. That kind of behavior wouldn't be tolerated from a male for very long, -my breasts must remain unshaken ;) |
Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver
(Post 7691651)
I used to work in an office where more than 90 percent of the staff were female and there were more than a few that said things "I wish I had your legs" or "how do you get legs like THAT ?" and even a few of the guys asked me how one gets such ripped calves.
(I was on track to be riding nearly 10,000 miles that year). Now I work as a bike messenger and if I thought my legs were in good shape then... I was in the elevator the other day with a guy and a nice looking woman (a little older than me) and the guy said "man...you must be cold" and I jokingly said that if I was showing some leg it couldn't be that cold... He defensively said "I don't notice such things" and as he and the lady stepped out of the elevator the woman smiles and says... "I did". :o This happened again the other day when I was making some small talk with some ladies I had never seen on my morning runs... I said that since this was the first time we had met they could not possibly know how I liked my coffee but that I'd be here everyday at about 10:45... :D One of them smiled and said... I hope this isn't the last time we meet. I am sure I am nearly old enough to have been this young ladies father ! But I wasn't offended. :D |
Originally Posted by recumelectric
(Post 7648731)
That's 'cause Clarence Thomas is creepy. Remarks about a pubic hair on a cola can are creepy. References to movies showing group sex, **** and beastiality are creepy. ...Especially coming from some old dude who claims to be conservative and Catholic. Major closet perv. Major creepy.
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Do you guys think this jump suit makes me look fat?
aaaaaaaaaaaaaagggggggggggggggggggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh sick-o |
Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver
(Post 7691651)
I used to work in an office where more than 90 percent of the staff were female and there were more than a few that said things "I wish I had your legs" or "how do you get legs like THAT ?" and even a few of the guys asked me how one gets such ripped calves.
(I was on track to be riding nearly 10,000 miles that year). Now I work as a bike messenger and if I thought my legs were in good shape then... I was in the elevator the other day with a guy and a nice looking woman (a little older than me) and the guy said "man...you must be cold" and I jokingly said that if I was showing some leg it couldn't be that cold... He defensively said "I don't notice such things" and as he and the lady stepped out of the elevator the woman smiles and says... "I did". :o This happened again the other day when I was making some small talk with some ladies I had never seen on my morning runs... I said that since this was the first time we had met they could not possibly know how I liked my coffee but that I'd be here everyday at about 10:45... :D One of them smiled and said... I hope this isn't the last time we meet. I am sure I am nearly old enough to have been this young ladies father ! But I wasn't offended. :D |
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