So generic hubs are better than XT, Tiagra is better than XT? I think all of the pricing is pretty close, with the variation from higher or lower component specifications. No one is giving away a free lunch.

Aww, forget it.. (deleted)

Somewhere on the Surly site (maybe the blog) they explain that they went to the "cheaper" stuff because people were denting the Surlys that had been made with the "good" stuff.

I got a Surly before I knew why I wanted one. I was a newbie commuting on a used hybrid that was so heavy it had moons orbiting around it. One LBS guy said, you probably don't know what you want yet, but if you get a Cross-Check it won't ask much of you and it'll have a decent shot at morphing into anything you decide. The more I ride it the more I realize how right that is. The top tube got a nasty dent in a fall and the LBS guys were like, it's fine, looks cool, don't fix it. There are a few other nicks and the decals are starting to chip and while that would look like hell on lots of bikes it's just natural on the Surly. Winter struck and I threw on some big fat studded tires - I slog through just about anything, hang the bike up to drip the slush off, give it a wipe and it's happy. Some people say, oh, Surly is just about marketing. But the marketing plays into the actual toughness and practicality of the bike. Other bikes are tough and versatile but I'm guessing that on average their owners aren't as fine with a war wound in the top tube. It's not a bike, it's a lifestyle.

Something inside me wants to have more bikes but every time I ride something else I'm glad to get back on the good ol' X-C. I love the thing like a brother. Here he is in all his lack of glory.

http://img359.imageshack.us/img359/3...lyfrontll3.jpg

I don't think Surlys are anything special. It's a descent product for descent price. If I was to do more research, I would have bought a Soma frameset. I don't have much to complain about my X-check, but it just weighs a ton.

"...so heavy that it had moons orbiting around it". Damn, that`s good.:lol:

Love the corn cob grips. I have those too.

Well, like was said earlier the design counts for a lot. It's really easy to make a crap frame out of 953. You can't tell everything about a bike from a spec sheet. Plus 520 isn't exactly top-of-the-line.......631's a big upgrade so if they downgraded from 631 they may well be in the neighborhood of 520. For that matter as long as you want to be a spec-sheet checker, a lot of folks will tell you that 4130 is the same as 520. It's not - the alloy is the same but the design is not (well, might not be anyhow....).

Like I said about 8 pages ago, you can debate that all day long and not get anywhere. If the spec sheet is what counts to you, by all means it's hard to beat a BikesDirect on a specs-vs-price basis. I don't think even Nashbar and Performance can beat them with their house brands. Me? I'm spending more than a complete CrossCheck costs on a custom frame built of Reynolds 725. The frame alone will cost nearly 3x what that complete BD "Mercier" costs. Design matters.

Man there is a lot of energy here going after Surly. Why? Why bother? I don't see many Surly owners posting threads like "what's so special about "brand x" bikes" in order to justify their choice. If you don't like them, or don't get it, just don't buy one. No one is twisting your arm, knock yourself out go, buy a cheaper bike online.

How many people here really regret their purchase of a Surly? That would be a better thread and you might get some actual user advice about the con's, and every bike has them.

Personally,if I wanted to ride anything wider than 32mm,I'd go 26" instead of 700cc. I had a 29er. Came stock with 1.9",swapped them for some 38mm,then swapped those for some lightweight 42mm. Still took more oomph to spin up from a stop than the 26x2" tires on my Safari. Don't get me wrong,it was fun to bomb around some of the crap streets we have around here,but when I commuted on it the fun wore off. No way would I want to do distance on a loaded bike with them.

I suppose with their substantial weight, Surlys might be more suited to descents, but from what I've heard they're decent climbers as well.

The Sherpa is built from 853 Reynolds. You won't find that on any Surly.....

I find 35s to be no problem. Years ago, and for years, I rode the skinniest tires I could on my touring bike--1" or 23s, I guess. On my new bike, I ride 35 Marathons, and they don't ride any harder than my skinnies did. I'm much older now, and not in as good of shape, and I was really nervous riding fat tires, but I don't dare go skinny with my weight. So, I was surprised at the lack of difference. In any case, I wouldn't dare run anything less than my 35s, so lots of bikes are "out" for me. And that's one plus for the Surly LHT. :-)

-Jon

But its sloping top tube looks gross...

Don't even go to the Rivendell site. :innocent: :D

That's what I did. I bought LHT and for my size, it's 26". :love: I was one who wasn't impressed when the LHT was only available as a frame + fork. It was (and still) ugly and unless you have parts, building a bike isn't cheap. The complete bike hits the sweet spot though. The right components at the right place and it rides even better than I expected.

Yes, and you didn't get it built from generic low-end chromo, so apparently material matters too.

Bring that custom frame back without a brand on headtube and I'll be impressed, and more convinced that "design" was all that mattered in your willingness to spend that kind of money.

F That! I didn't spend 1000s of hours as a child staring at the Mercian's at the Boulder Spoke for it not to say "The World Over" on the headtube! But they certainly could make a crap frame out of 725. They just don't. I could opt for a cheaper material (631 or 631) but once you factor in the custom build costs, paint, etc. it only costs a few bob to upgrade. What that has to do with some POS BD bike, I have no idea.......

am i the only one who doesn't like the dude in the half-shirt on the surly site? i'm trying like hell to get the decals off my surly. i bought a bike, not a life-style.

I don't like the half-shirt guy, but I like the decals. What is everyone's beef with the Cross-Check logos?

They look like skateboard stickers from 1987, which isn't everyone's cup of tea. I like them OK, but preferred having no logoes on my bike, so I heat gun/credit carded them off.

Dude, if you keep it stock, 20 years from now an original will likely be in great demand....

you all keep mentioning "It's steel" but it doesn't end there. Surly bikes are all 4130 CroMo, certainly a bomb-proof steel, but one that's old, heavy, and cheap.

Surly frames are made in asia just like the rest of them folks! Have you ever wondered why a discount outfit like BD.com sells Surly? They're probably made in the same factory.

For my money, Jamis offers fine Reynolds 531/631/831 steel bikes with more advanced steel frames, name brand components, and great quality.

I don't think Surly offers any competitive value, but they certainly know their target audience, don't they? I will give them big props for their cargo bike, however.

Surlys are over-rated! If you're a sheep, then join the herd.

same here the 'misfits' like logos were the 1st thing to go
the bike looks so much cleaner without them

Not long ago someone posted (with photos to demonstrate) that the Surly decals are easily removable if you paste duct tape over them and then rip the duct tape off. I don't mind the decals so mine are still on, though they are disappearing little by little in the winter riding.

Surly used to make the Cross Check with Reynolds 631, but (the going story I've heard; can anyone confirm this?) switched to 4130 when people complained that the thin walled 631 frames dented too easily.

With "the rest of them", you're including Jamis, right? Jamis bikes are made in Asia and probably come from the same factory as the rest of them, too.

Look at similarly priced bikes between Jamis and Surly, for instance, the Aurora and the LHT.

Reynolds 520 vs. Surly's enigmatic 4130 'natch tubing. While 4130 is just a steel designation, 520 is a specific tubing... made of? Double-butted 4130 Cro-Mo. Probably from the same Taiwan factory where Surly gets theirs, but rebadged with a Reynolds sticker. (If somone has information proving otherwise, please post it. I've searched high and low for spec sheets on "Reynolds 520" and can't find squat about it.)
As for name brand components between the Aurora and LHT, it's a wash. Deore/Tiagra mix on the Jamis while the Surly has a mix of Tiagra and XT. The biggest difference is STI levers vs. barcons, which is really a matter of personal preference. They both have mid-grade cranks (FSA vs. Andel) and modest Alex rims.

:lol:

If they were expensive, I'd say you might be right! But until they jack up their prices and stories start appearing about Surly frames falling apart, I'll stay in the Surly Cult, singin' their praises and drinkin' the Surly Kool-Aid.

i also drive a toyota, one of the most common cars on the road.

i think in some cases there's a reason certain cars or bikes are popular. reliable, no nonsense, reasonably priced.

if that makes me a sheep, then so be it.... baaaa.... :rolleyes:

Flock. A group of sheep is a flock, not a herd. :thumb: