Why?

I keep spare spokes taped inside my seat post.

My special Surly LHT came with special spokes in a special spoke holder. Ain't that special?

Not really.
My 84' Velo Sport Everest has the same thing.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b4...0/DSC01973.jpg

Fuji Touring has that
Windsor Tourist has that
First time I ever saw it on a bike was about 1979; but I am sure it was around before that

The Surly Cross-Check is not excellent at anything, but it's good at pretty much everything. It's not as fast as a road bike or even other cyclocross bikes, but you can put fat tires, fenders, and a rack on it. I love the cantilever breaks. Unlike a MTB, you have drop handlebars for when you want to cruise downhill or plow into a headwind. It has near-MTB toughness and near-road bike speed.

I take that first phrase back. The Cross Check is excellent at something. Commuting. That's why commuters love them, and people who want a real road bike or a real MTB aren't as crazy about them.

Finally, the Surly company has something other lesser-known bike companies don't--the savvy to get their bikes in bike shops. I didn't know what I wanted when I starting shopping for a commuter. I tried a whole bunch of bikes, but when I got on the Surly, I knew I found what I needed. It's a lot easier to sell a quality bike when you can get potential buyers in the saddle.

Well, something doesn't have to be 100% unique to be unique. 99.something of all bikes on the road don't have that feature. Stuff like that used to be a lot more common as well.

Savvy? I think it might have something to do with being owned by the biggest bike distributor in the US....and really, while I like them for their smart design they're pretty well middle-of-the-road for quality. They're expensive for the commuter forum (where "why the heck would anyone pay for a bike when they can fish one out of a dumpster" is a common refrain), they're cheap for the road, MTB, Cyclocross or touring forums.

OTOH, there's something to say for being a small-production manufacturer. They might not be Trek or Giant but at ~10k units per year, they ain't small either.

I thought about a surley, but when It came down to it I wanted more raw speed. I got a steel jamis satellite instead with Reynolds 520 which is essentially the same as the 4130 steel which surly uses. The only real differences are that mine has less clearances and a carbon fork. I am very happy with it and It feels much more sprightly than the cross check or LHT.

And in which trash bin do I find a frame with braze-ons for a rack, enough clearance for fat tires and fenders, cantilever brakes, etc., etc., etc? The Surly is especially good for commuters who don't have the time or knowledge to scour trash bins and Craigslist for the perfect bike that everyone else has overlooked.

Basically, Surly is out of the box versatility and function. If you can find that in a trash bin, more power to you.

It sounds like you made the right decision for your needs. But for me, the extra speed won't do me any good if I can't fit my winter tires and fenders on.

Surly's Big Dummy is special, at least to me it is. I can haul at least 120 pounds of stuff, more than I weigh, and have fun doing it. Couldn't do that with my trailer and jekle. Want a LHT now.

Sorry - I was being sarcastic but I guess you missed it. I agree with you. But the only section on Bikeforums that has more cheapskates than commuting is the "classic and vintage" section - where you buy a beautiful, rare old bike for $200 on ebay and they'll tell you you got ripped off and should have bought it at a thrift shop for $20. I've scoured the thriftshops AND ebay and haven't found the bike I want (well, found one on ebay and got outbid at the last second). So I'm ordering a custom Mercian and will be done with it.

A lot of mid '80s and earlier bikes will do it (well, except for the cantilevers - I want long-reach side-pulls anyhow) but they are TOUGH to find. But once upon a time things like rack and fender braze-ons, good clearance, etc. were just part of a standard bike. You had to spend a lot of money to NOT get that stuff.

In part I was playing off the fact that this whole thread started as basically "why should spend $$$$$$$$$$ on a Surly when I can get the cheapest bargain-basement bike out there?". Next time I'll put in a winky smiley.

I found a 1988 Trek 400 in my apartment dumpster yesterday morning.

4130 CroMo lugged frame/fork
fender brazes
clearance for 28mm tires and full fenders

Not canti brakes, and I certainly can't fit my 35mm studs on there for the winter. But it's been a long time coming... I've scoured trash bins and CL for a long time to find a 64cm old steel frame bike.

(I'll still ride the heck out of my Surly!)

He's right. I use a cross check as a commuter as well. It makes pretty tight turns yet it's fairly stable. The geometry isn't very aggressive but it's comfortable.

It comes with bar end shifters which have two advantages over STI:
* They're more comfortable.
* You can operate them with mittens.

It's steel, like all Surly's, which is simply more comfortable (a good thing for a commuter).

It's not a particularly light bike as Surly ships it. You could make it quite a bit lighter if you wanted. The frame is about 4.5lbs. But for a commuter this isn't terribly important. By the time I throw my 4lb lock on the bike I don't care if everything else weighs over 20lbs.

It seems to take the weight on the rack, even when I carry the bike up stairs with weight on the rack.

It has one big disadvantage: No mount for a front rack.


Surly seems to do so well because of their marketing. People "buy into" Surly as a cultural icon. Other low cost steel frame makers like Salsa and Soma don't get nearly the attention around here. Although, if I buy a steel road bike for group rides I'm likely to go with a Soma Speedster (lugs are pretty).

Anyway I have 1300 miles on my Cross Check and I love it.

I have been thinking about this a lot. I am thinking about building up a Cross Check and one of the options I have considered is using a LHT fork. It doesn't have quite as much tire clearance as the Cross Check, but it would have enough for me.

Well the quick and easy to the answer of "Why are Surly's so special?" is that they produce a lot of models that are unique, versatile and functional. What other manufacturer supplies a snow bike or fat bike, a cargo hauler xtracycle, functional commuters, real touring bike, and fat tire fixies? The only niche I wish they would get into yet is 650B bikes, but the Rawland is a nice choice there, but Surly might be able to do it cheaper.

I do not have one yet but like the versatility in the design of Surly frames. Several are designed so that they can easily be built up as SS/FG, geared hub or derailleur drivetrain bikes due to the horizontal or semi-horizontal dropouts. The Cross Check is, for instance, one of the few frames currently available with classic Campy style semi horizontal front opening dropouts. The Karate Monkey has rear opening dropouts and a derailleur hanger, again max versatility. The Big Dummy and Pugsley are both close to unique in the American market.

Surly engineers are willing to think out of the usual box when it comes to frame designs. That in itself makes them unusual in this day and age.

As a gear hub drivetrain fan Surly offers me wider choices than other frame makers unless I go custom.

BTW I do have a Civia Hyland Rohloff. This is another QBP owned product and is, so far as I know, the only complete production bike available here with the Rohloff hub.

You know, I'm not at all interested in brands. "Surly" as a brand name means nothing to me. However, I am looking for a frame with very relaxed touring geometry, all the braze-ons I can imagine, capable of large tires, and steel. So far, from what I've seen, only the LHT does this. Do Jamis or Soma offer a frame-only just like the LHT, but for $400 or less? If so, I will sincerely consider them, but I don't know of any other bike frame I can buy...

-Jon

There is nothing special about Surly, which is sort of why they are so special. They've filled in the everyman, everyday use, versatile, steel-frame market nicely.

It doesn't hurt that they are available EVERYWHERE that's anywhere, due to QBP's distribution. No "I'll make some calls and try to get you one" crap.

So what's that thing under the seat stay bridge?

My 80s D-Back MTB had "special" spoke holders, but didn't have one of those.

That is a dynamo. I had one of those on my old Raliegh. I loved it. I felt it created less friction than a sidewall dynamo. (I love my hub dynamo even more, and would never go back to either now.)

I think my biggest problem with it was slippage when wet, oh, and mud.

-Jon

I guess my sarcasm meter wasn't working. My apologies.

I'm thinking about getting an LHT for one of my bikes, it just has so many mounts and isn't too pricey. Will probably wait until lait spring for that one though. IMO surly just fill a nice niche in the market, and do it well.

On the whole alluminium craking topic, I do have to say I don't know much about it so this is a bit of logic, but all the alluminium you see flexing without craking is surely because it's designed to flex. Alot of bike frames are built to be super stiff so therefore when they do flex, they crack. Just a thought, possibly not the actual material but more how it is treated.

"Why are Surly's so special?"

It's not the bikes, it's the riders!

Always make sure it has fresh batteries, or you could get in some serious trouble.... :lol:
Believe me.... I know..

http://doesitallmatter.files.wordpre...casmmeter2.gif

“Why are Surlys so special?”

Because Surly makes the best cargo bike for my needs, the Big Dummy.

Also the Travelers Check Frameset with S&S Couplers is of good value.

Ciao,
o-^o

I have several Surlys (or is it "Surli"?) and they aren't special at all. Aside from the Big Dummy and the Pugsly, which are both crazy exceptional, they are the most "medium" frames you can get

But all of them are capable of anything-- which is really amazing when you think about it. I've seen 1x1s with 29er tires, Sheldon's freak Karate Monkey (with two sets of handlebars and two sets of brakes), fixed gear Long Haul Truckers.

Another thing I like about them is I don't feel like I should baby them. Its as if they don't mind abuse.

I want to see Surly make a 20" wheel folding frame.

+1 I was out riding my Cross Check this weekend and had a single pannier on the bike as I was going to do some grocery shopping on the way home after cruising around town. I found a cool spot with some stairs so I started curb hopping, jumping off and riding down the stairs. Other than the lopsided pannier making the landings a bit sketchy the rest of the bike seemed to say.. bring it on. :)

Hitler rode a Madone. D'uh

Jesus would have ridden a Surly