So how much is "enough" for brighter and brighter lights? Are we all going to have to run a billion lumens out there just to counteract what's hitting us from everyone else?

Oh, gosh, I'm 3000 miles away from Cliffy. So what? It's not like he has anything unique -- there are riders around here who are trying to replicate sunlight, too. I'm not at all ignorant of what's going on.

I dim my light -- I even mount it so I can tip it downwards (golly gee, is that POSSIBLE?!??!?!). I've had no complaints -- but I've had people say, "Thanks," as I pass by.

Gee. Maybe I'm doing something right.

"Enough" is relative to the conditions. 40mph, bombing down a 15 mile long, winding mountain road at 3am after already spending 20 hours in the saddle: Yeah, I want might lights to look like I stole them from Safeco Field. Zipping along the dead flat MUP on my morning commute: I'm fine with a single E3 (soon to be replaced by a single SON Edelux with the E3 as my descender/back-up lamp.)

If you think I'm trying to "replicate sunlight" with a single first gen. E3 lamp (280 lumens and 60 lux) then you've far surpassed ignorant and gone straight for delusional.

Since you're not familiar with the base model E3 lamp, allow me to explain why that's not possible: It's a hard-mount lamp. No nifty little plastic doo-dad with a swivel mechanism; just a 6mm hole through a 4mm fin for mounting the lamp with an M5 bolt to a rack or fork eyelet. Without an allen wrench, that lamp head isn't moving.
As for mounting it within reach, all that's going to do is reduce my visibility. The reason I have it low-mounted in the first place is to increase the shadow throw on road obstacles. The lower you can mount a lamp, the longer shadows it will throw and you can more easily avoid potholes and debris. Moving the lamp up higher makes for a flatter light, and that reduced contrast is part of the reason why people keep buying stronger and stronger lights.

^^^^ Your words. Not mine.

People don't complain about mine, but they have about yours. Hell, you started a thread because of a complaint.

And, speaking as someone who's been on the receiving end of a really bright light, I'll say that it was justified.

Your insistence that it wasn't justified is how you've shown your ignorance.

Now STFU and fix your damned light.

fify

Clif is about as reasonable and as nice a guy I have never met and having met randy I can say he is a pretty decent fellow... one guy is complaining about Clif's lighting and it does seem Clif has been very considerate and put a lot of thought into his set up.

"This "your light is too bright!" problem is becoming a recurrent theme here, and we should be looking for solutions, rather than just ignoring it."


I think we are starting to see more discussions on this (have started one myself) because lighting technology is advancing so quickly and every day there seems to be a better and brighter light on the market. I have started to run into more people who are running much brighter lights and when poorly aimed these are quite blinding.

And then there are those people who are trying to replicate a sunny day on their night rides or running off road lights that are not suitable for multi use trails or bike paths.

Better lights have a cutoff to prevent them from blinding oncoming cyclists and a 3 watt light has sufficient power to do this... my 10 watt Nighthawk turns night into day but it is also a flood and is only good for off road or when I am a solo act on the MUT.

"Mooooom, some people on the internet don't agree with me on how to do things! Duh Mom, I already tried getting really upset and threatening physical violence over it!!! Now what?"

And my personal favorite:

gawd... you 'are' entertaining, I'll give ya that. To be able to foam at the mouth with the fervor of political ideology all because some dude once pissed you off with his bright bicycle light.
I'm sorry life has treated you so poorly.
Please... talk to use some more like we're third graders.

The insane lighting suggestion some of the guys at the LBS had was to keep my E3 symmetrical as my main light, and throw an E3-Triple opposite it for my descent lamp.
Sure, it would be nice and bright... but that sucker could blind not only oncoming cyclists, but also drivers and low-flying pilots. Definitely didn't want an off-roading light for road use.

After having put an IQ Cyo-N Plus on my singlespeed, I was convinced to switch the primary lighting on my main commuter rig to a focused beam lamp. Less out of any concern that I've been blinding people, and more because the beam is so much brighter due to the optics. The Edelux is supposed to be 25 lux stronger than the IQ Cyo, and I believe it. I rode a 400k over the summer with a friend who has an Edelux, and the thing is just awesome.
I recently emailed back and forth with an engineer at Schmidt Maschinebau regarding some lighting questions, and they did some in-house testing for me. If the Edelux is used as a system standard of 100%, then the E3 is 70% of that brightness due to the symmetrical beam spread. Running the math based on their respectve lux and lumen ratings, the E3 beam is around 2 m^2 larger at the measured target, which is pretty significant for only 30'.

My point is that you are threatening physical harm and overreacting due to a slight safety \ inconvenience issue. As a result your opinion is irrelevant.

Clif - You must bear in mind that that when they see a Sasquatch riding a bike they may stifle the urge to complain about anything.

Oh well. Whatever happens out there, happens. I'll accept as little responsibility for my limbs as they take for their stupidly obnoxious light setups.

It's not like anyone forced them to buy hundreds of lumens with such crappy optics, right? Whose ******** idea was it to stick an HID bulb in a housing designed for maximum dispersion and forget to, at least, repeatedly tell users to ONLY use them in unpopulated areas?

(Sigh)
Is it time to lock this train wreck yet?

Not over non-specific threats of violence. C'mon! You can't get this kind of entertainment anywhere else, even if you pay for it.
I say leave it open.

Let him dig his hole deeper and deeper.

typed out threats of bodily harm
could possibly have litigious value

i.e. users IP address, and general locale

i'd be cautious if i saw a guy walking down a bike path with elbow pads...

I promise I'll come back here and post the first time someone complains about my lights.

Sweet.

Yeah, enjoy the wait, it'll be a while.

Like I said, I've had no complaints yet, while more than a few have said "Thanks" for my dipped-down light.

I'd wager that they were getting sick and tired of blazing-bright lights coming at them.

explains sunglasses at night
tinted windows
ad nauseam
Klaatu barada nikto

I guess the question is how many people are annoyed by a light when only one ass mentions it?

Be nice if you fellas would stop everyone on the MUP and ask them and come back and give us some statistics.

Damn

Hey guys. I was riding home tonight and a car drove past me. His lights were so bright!!!!! I freakin threw a huge rock at the dude's face and then I broke his headlights, all while doing an elephant trunk skid and chugging whiskey. Then I peeled out and punched an old woman who was crosschaining her Walmart bike!! People gotta learn!

Yeah this is a huge problem. The extra chain noise can disturb joe public no end. I hope you told her to get a fixie as she is too dumb to ride gears.