slowandsteady

Wow...so not an attack. And I am quite aware of logical fallacies and did not attempt to use any of them on you. And you conveniently did not answer any of my questions.

Of course the 7 year old was at fault. Of course the entire group was at fault for taking the whole lane. That has been established. No one is denying that. No one is saying that you are 100% at fault. But you are responsible for your behavior and your behavior alone.

Since you cannot change what others on a MUP will do. And since it is almost a given that others on a MUP will at times not follow the rules, or swerve in front of you, or be walking slowly on a blind curve, what can YOU do to avoid a similar accident in the future?


There is a stretch of road that I frequently travel in my car. At dusk there is about a 5- 10% chance that I will encounter a deer crossing the road. It is pretty heavily wooded on each side and a deer darting out will happen with virtually no time to react. Therefore, despite the fact that it is legal to drive 50 mph on this road, I slow to 30-35 mph when traveling at dusk. I put my high beams on and scan the sides of the road carefully. It doesn't matter who is at fault. Blame isn't the issue. It is about altering your behavior to mitigate risks as you are aware of them so that you avoid accident and injury either to yourself or others.

I also carry pepper spray to deal with chasing dogs. Just because it is 100% the owner's fault if their dog chases me down and bites me, doesn't mean there aren't things I can do to help avoid this fate.

The issue is that you keep harping on who is to blame not on what you can do to minimize the risks.

tjspiel

He already feels bad. What are you trying to accomplish?

If there had been a crashed rider sprawled across the MUP and he had posted here about this incident, no doubt someone would be berating him for whatever he did to contribute to his crashing.

lshaped

i don't think anyone is trying to intentionally make him feel bad- it just sounds like the OP sees nothing
crazy about riding 20mph on an MUP and it doesn't appear he's learned anything from his mishap

cycle_maven

There usually are two people doing things that are wrong when a collision happens. So, the fault isn't entirely the OP's, but saying that the accident would be avoidable if the other guy was better at defensive walking/riding/driving is specious. A person should always ride/drive as if there is an unknown object directly in his path that he can't yet see; i.e. don't overrun your sight path, it's too fast. Whose fault would it be if there were a tree down across the MUP at the same location, the tree's?

Jtgyk

Actually, this works.
"I was riding fast and hit someone," (who was where she was not supposed to be)
"therefore I hit someone because I was riding fast" (and didn't have adequate reaction time, braking power, and stopping distance)
Yep works for me in this instance.
Not all the blame is yours, and I do feel you have been raked over the coals enough...truly, I do.
I would be slowing down for blind curves from now on, though.
Never drive/ride faster than you can see.

oban_kobi

I nearly plowed into a kid once a path, and since then I keep my speed around 12-14, slower on turns. You should be able to come to a stop within the distance that you can see down the path. 20mph belongs on the road.

JeremyLC

Nice strawman. Again, I admitted my fault here. I didn't post to place blame, just to vent frustration. I didn't post to get beat up either. You're the, what, sixth or seventh? person to pile-on here. Kindly either say something productive, or just don't say anything.

JeremyLC

Certainly not on a MUP filled with people going 20mph, no there isn't anything wrong here. You seem to be making unfounded assumptions as to the make-up of the traffic on this particular trail.

electrik

Well, like you said... the path has a marked centre divider on it.

If the group had been following the rules then no big deal, everybody walks/rides away fine. Unfortunately people on the MUP just don't follow the very simple rules. Should you slow to a crawl on blind corners? No... obviously that is not practical nor required by the MUP rules, but the reason you feel guilty is probably because you feel you could have been more cautious. Because people do stupid things like take up the whole pathway on a blind corner. Objectively it is not your fault, this sort of circumstance happens a lot, but next time i'd slow down for that same corner because getting into a crash is a gamble.

I hope you stood up for yourself, don't let the parents heft their guilt onto you - because they were the ones breaking the rules.

Jtgyk

Well Said

JeremyLC

So, logical fallacy it is, AND a strawman (I NEVER ONCE blamed the child). I don't understand why you're so adamant about beating me up over this.

You finally admit that is NOT entirely my fault, but only in passing. I didn't post here to be beaten up and made to feel even MORE guilty. So, either say something constructive, or say nothing.

lshaped

you really see nothing wrong with riding at 20mph on a crowded MUP? tell me you're kidding.

slowandsteady

I bolded the constructive parts.

JeremyLC

This is an interesting bit I left out. The father didn't do much more than give me a dirty look until he said it was okay for me to go. The other on-lookers asked ME first if I was okay. (I landed splayed-out on the concrete, and pretty hard too) MY first response was directed to the girl to make sure SHE was alright. Nobody there in person beat me up over it, I had to come to BF to get that kind of treatment.

alan s 

You would be wise to heed your own advice. Everyone here sympathizes with you to a degree . . . it wasn't 100% your fault. OK?

myrridin

People are beating you up (to use your term) because you don't seem to see a problem with doing 20mph around a blind corner. You wanted constructive advice, you've been given it, ride slow enough to be able to stop should something unexpected occur. Yet, you continue to act as if such advice is an attack. Even on a MUP, doing 20mph is fine provided you have enough sight distance to anticipate obstacles. Slowing when near unpredictable pedestrians, is one of those MUP rules you keep referring to. Also, going slower around a blind corner is for your benefit, not the pedestrians, because as I have said before you could just as easily have collided with a fallen tree branch.

Jtgyk

Never DID say it was ALL your fault. Read my posts again.
I've commiserated with you and agreed with you that you were partially at fault, pointing out that, with all factors put together, the only thing you had control of was speed.
I've tanked at 15mph on a blind corner (read about it here) , fared less well than you, and took almost a year to completely recover.

JeremyLC

No, YOU keep harping on who is to blame, namely you want to blame me. You're not offering anything constructive, you're telling it's my fault.

tjspiel

I think it's more about people not wanting to lose a debate, and I don't think the OP posted this wanting a debate.

Jtgyk

Wasn't crowded. Just in that one spot.
If everyone had been where they were suppose to be, there wouldn't have been a problem. It's a big wide path.

myrridin

Maybe not, but the OP has repeatedly said that he sees nothing wrong with doing 20mph around a blind corner on a MUP. That is what I (and I believe most here) are having an issue with.

myrridin

That the collision occured with pedestrians is irrelevant. His speed was inappropriate going around a blind spot--his description. He could just as easily have run into a tree limb or a pot hole or other debris.

JeremyLC

It's not a blind corner, it is a curve. And, since I've ridden through there at speed quite a few times without incident, I generally do assume it is safe to do so.


This is constructive advice, yes.

An attack is an attack. Advice is not, I am not "acting" like advice is an attack. Words like "ridiculous" and "insane" are not attached to meaningful advice.

I just want you to admit that standing across the path at the end of a "blind corner" (it's not one, but you keep calling it that) is also dangerous behaviour. You have thus far only admitted in vague terms that they may also be responsible, but you keep harping on my speed as being the primary, if not the only, cause.

I do feel it is irrational to expect me to slow down (by as much as half my speed) for EVERY curve in the path, the would make the entire exercise of riding there utterly pointless. (it is a path in a park. It was built EXPLICITLY to be used in this manner)

benda18

You posted this on BF, what did you expect? Personally I'm surprised there aren't 100 people calling you out for breaking the 5th commandment

slowandsteady

That may be what you are hearing because things can get clouded when you hear things through your own guilt. I get it. But no where did I blame you. I specifically stated that blame isn't the issue. See below.

Read my section on the dog bites. Sure I could choose to not carry pepper spray. Sure I could choose to ride on road with known loose dogs. It is my 100% legal right to do this. If a dog attacks me it would be 100% not my fault. Been there done that. Have the rabies vaccination and scar to prove it. Being blameless doesn't make the needle sting any less.

But choosing to not alter my behavior in a relatively minor way to significantly minimize my risk of injury or death solely because I am not legally obligated to do so...is in my opinion....silly.