bmclaughlin807

Meh. I don't have anyone to call that can do anything to help, so a cell phone is useless for anything other than telling my loved ones that I'll be late getting home.

khutch

And your point is? You deny that something has value when it is used daily to help people. And you seem to be trying to use the fact that it does help people to "prove" that it is useless.

The cell phone connects that brain to almost anyone, anywhere, anywhen in the world. You can call up wisdom from the dawn of writing on your phone and download the latest news. If your brain cannot see the value in that you undercut your own premise.

There is no accounting for taste. If the movie thrills you and the other books in the series bore you then as I said you don't know Dune. The movie is abominable but that is par for the course in SF movies made from books. Find heart plugs in the book for me, tell me what useful purpose this dimwitted Hollywood intrusion served. I don't believe Dune is terribly specific about the Baron's sexual practices. The author's son was in his expansion of the series and his portrayal of the Baron is far more inventive and terrifying than the movie's heart plugs. Heart plugs have nothing to do with the Litany Against Fear.

You show no real understanding of whatever knowledge you have.

Technology has no means whatsoever to use me. I use it, it is incapable of using me. It is pretty hard to do anything without using human technology and it has been for 250,000 years.

My dogs cannot compose poetry. Human language is a technology they do not possess (although they understand a fair number of words). Poetry is a technology they do not possess, since they have no language. Human writing is a technology they cannot use or have any use for. The implements by which human language is recorded are another collection of human technologies they cannot use, except as chew toys. If you don't understand this, and I can't see why you would have tried to use this as an example if you did, then you are hardly qualified to comment on technology. Technology is so pervasive and so ancient among us that we use a thousand technological innovations every hour without even realizing it. Technology does not use us, it is us, the most profound expression of the human experience possible.

My female dog will slip you the tongue without warning. Is the experience better? Define better.... Dogs are very adept at expressing emotions including affection. Put a naked human being and a dog both in the deep northern woods in the depth of winter and which is most likely to be alive a month later? The dog. The dog has no technology, it can only use non-technological survival skills and adaptations and it has them in abundance. You can't even survive a night without clothes or at least a fire, and both are human technology. Your only hope is to somehow recreate stone age technology from the ice ages over a period of hours and days. Of course you increase your chances of survival a lot if you befriend the dog but animal husbandry is another ancient technology.

That is what "living without technology" would really be like. I'll take my life with a double dose of technology. If we stripped all the technology out of your bike you would be left with a small pile of worthless looking rocks and organic materials. It took a quarter million years of technological development to turn that into a human powered vehicle. It should not take that long to convince you of the value of a cell phone, all the hard work has been done. All you have to do is open your mind and that is not technology, that is intelligence, the wellspring of technology.

Ken

Standalone 

I can, for instance, call collect and fatten the wallet of an entirely different company.

Standalone 

Where does "value" equate with "absolute necessity?"Coming to rely on data in the cloud atrophies the brain. I'm smarter than Google.If you truly believed that, you'd have dropped the issue there. Kubrick's 2001 was also better than Clarke's novella.

edit: just read that Clarke's was more like a Novelisation of the screenplay based on another short story. Cool. I didn't even need the internet to know by reading it that it sucked. Guess I have good taste.Do you really talk like this in the real world? Or has the technology of the internet reduced your ability to be civil? Just sayin'... I don't think I've insulted you anywhere, just debated you. That's been my intent.I don't like cell phones very much. Or TV at all. I like matches. I like computers. I like first, second, and third class levers. I like gears. I like bikes. I like typewriters. I like buttons and zippers too. I like woven cloth. I like books. I like...I totally owned you with the dog comment earlier. You can't even say "touche," can you, Laertes? 0_o I must really be a dummy who lacks intelligence, because you disagree with me, right? Remember, I'm smarter than Google. And Ken, so are you.

Standalone 

I think it's fun to talk about. Turns out that people have strong opinions about it that connect to more than its use as a commuter's aid. That's quite interesting, actually. The vehemence of some folks (perhaps including me) is likewise interesting. I like my little thread...

Standalone 

/thread

Cyclist0383

Maybe it's your holier-than-thou attitude regarding the fact that you don't have a use for a mobile that makes people express strong opinions. The world isn't going to change to be like you. Learn to deal with it.

Timber_8

The time for honoring yourself will soon be at and end

Standalone 

Post reported. Good grief.

Cyclist0383

Oh no, someone challenged your arrogant posts! Quick, cry to the authorities! So much for 'standing alone'.

tjspiel

I think the thread is really, really interesting. I never realized that there were such strong feelings (pro and con) regarding cell phones and how they should be used. I was surprised to find that there are people out there who dislike folks for choosing not to carry a cell phone or carrying one but some times leaving it off.

Though I'm not surprised by it, it's interesting to me that an employer feels that for the low price of $40 a month, they have the right to call an employee any time, any where and expect them to answer. Traditionally being "on call" was limited to certain evenings or times and often associated with some extra pay, though you were tied to being around your phone.

I'm also surprised that some people have such a dislike for them though realistically choosing not to have one does marginalize oneself to a larger degree as time goes on.

chevy42083

I'd be inclined to say yes.

Obviously I am a certain age/ gender/ rural/ etc

Many of you say no.

So I guess it is for some people. Yeah, I could walk home if needed. Or i could ride 20miles out of my way. I could ride in a monsoon. But I'd rather just have my phone.

chipcom 

I have a cell phone, have since the early 90s. I went through my "connected" phase long ago and got over it...no more smart phones, dingleberries and such, I am back to just a basic phone. Of course it goes with me when I commute or ride or go just about anywhere, but I don't think I have ever had to actually use it during a commute...other than to make a call saying I might be late for work/home.

So while a cell phone is certainly nice to have, it is hardly 'essential' for commuting...unless of course you are helpless as a babe in the woods, in which case you prolly should never leave your protective bubble anyway.

PaulRivers

I've really found that the "anti cell phone" thing is largely a generational thing. (cue someone pointing out someone they know who's younger and doesn't like them either, but I think it's true overall.)

When older people grew up, there was no caller id, and the only chance of someone getting ahold of you was when they called you at home. When the phone rang - you answered it. It was like a Pavlovian response - ring == answer. Even with answering machines, if you didn't answer it and someone didn't leave a message, there was no way to know who called. Not answering your phone was sometimes like not answering your front door - people just didn't do it, it was considered very rude.

In the generation that grew up with cell phones, the "you constantly have the phone one you" has led to different etiquette. When you simply cannot answer your phone the instant it rings, it's led to a whole different thing. Super needy girlfriends and overactive parents aside, for the most part the younger generation is used to getting a phone call and not answering it. I'm right in the middle in age myself, but especially my friends younger than me have a tendency towards the opposite problem then always answering the phone...they have no problem not answering it. Like, ever.

I'll take a second to point out that I'm talking in generalities here, and certain there are many, many exceptions. But I think the hostility towards cell phones that you see more of in the older generation is that they think of a cell phone as "a way for people to call me that always has to be answered". To them (and not all of them, but a certain segment), it's a leash that keeps them from relaxing. And it's not just that one person's fault either - once other people with a similar attitude find out they have a cell phone, those people start expecting that person to be constantly available. And get upset when they don't answer their phone - their wife gets angry she couldn't reach her husband at the supermarket, she gets upset he didn't answer his phone while biking, etc.

I have the darnest time getting my dad to use his cell phone in...well, what I would consider an "appropriate" manner when we're on vacation. To me, it's a "mobile communications device" that can act as a whatever category I choose for it without any guilt about it whatsoever. To him, it's always a phone that's supposed to be answered when it's on. It's like, we go on vacation, and I'm like "great, we have cell phones, I can relax and not worry about getting separated, or I can go and do my own thing without worrying about meeting up later to much". For him, it's like "time to turn the phone off". I always give him crap like "wouldn't it be great if, like, someone invented a device that allowed us to, like, "call" each other, or something, if we got separated?"

And I can see why he wants to turn it off. When a friend of his calls him in the middle of the hike he takes the call - something I would *never* do. Ok, ok, if my caller id said "Scarlett Johansson" I'd probably take it, but *otherwise* I'd *never* take it. It just doesn't make sense to me to answer my phone in the middle of a hike. I mean it's a cell phone - that's why it has caller id, voicemail, and text messaging. It's so I can *choose* whether it's important to answer the phone right now.

To the older generation (or perhaps someone in a very needy relationship), the cell phone is a phone that has to be answered if at all possible when it rings, like the phone in their parents house did, so it feels like a leash. To most of the people who grew up with cell phones, it's a mobile communications device that may or may not be answered depending on the situation, which lets you have a far greater deal of freedom when you have it on you as it lets you have the choice of calling people, having it in an emergency, etc but you don't have to. It's really freeing - if I get lost and separated on a group ride I can use the gps to tell me which general direction my car is in. If I want to see if someone wants to have supper at the end of the ride I can give them a call at the end of the ride - and I don't have to rush through the ride because I made plans with them at a certain time. And obviously if I have a serious mechanical breakdown (my bike frame broke once), it's available if I want to call for help. I find it very freeing.

tjspiel

^

I agree that different generations are very likely to have different viewpoints when it comes to cell phones and their use. I think it goes further than that though. I think as a society when haven't yet come to a consensus on what is considered appropriate use.

As I've said before, I resisted getting a cell phone for a long time and the very people that told me "you can always turn it off" complain when I do just that. My wife agrees that using a cell phone while driving is an unsafe practice but is offended if I don't want to talk to her while I'm driving. Now she wants to get me a blue tooth headset. Great. Another thing I need to remember to keep charged and take with me.

My wife is a heavy phone user and worrying over "minutes" is an every other month thing. She considers a cell phone to be very freeing too but she doesn't see how much that little gadget owns her. Much the same way people don't recognize how addicted to their cars they've become.

tligman

I don't know about essential for commuting, but I feel naked without my "always on always connected portable communications device", making it essential for everywhere, which includes commuting

PaulRivers

hahaha, yeah...as I mentioned in my post, part of the problem is that if you're part of the "must always answer" group and you get a cell phone, even if you change your attitude towards it other people still have the old attitude, which is truly difficult to do anything about (and for some people certainly not worth the effort).

But, just like with cars, we may be addicted but we're addicted because they're useful. Before cars people had horses...can you imagine having to feed your car a bail of hay each day whether you drove it or not? lol

tjspiel

Well, not everyone kept a horse. People often just walked. Eventually communities and neighborhoods were designed around the idea that most people had cars. Retail is often kept separate from residential so that walking is impractical. So it's not just that cars are so useful, we've built our infrastructure in such a way that they're often required where they weren't before.

There are certain relatives who live outside the city that think I'm kind of a freak for riding my bike to work. We're getting to the point that it's kind of weird not to have a cellphone. The disappearance of pay phones is one consequence. And don't forget. All these little things need to be charged which only adds to our appetite for electricity. A standard telephone handset only requires power when it's actually in use.

Standalone 

Well summed up. I do think it is interesting to see the reactions. My career allows me the luxury of not having one. But it seems like any professional without a collective bargaining agreement is expected to have one.

Much of this is new to me, having not been a part of it at all. I don't feel marginalized since I'm married and busy with a career, a band, two boys ages 3 and 5, church and choir, hobbies, projects, et cetera. I'm booked and double booked all the time, and get by in my busy life w/o one.

Few have veered towards comparing the pro phone crowd in this thread to the anti-cycling sentiments from co-workers and motorists on the road. I want to point it out, but don't want to attack them... "you're just like those car people..." lol

PaulRivers, I'll take your cue-- I'm 32, which is on the younger side of things as far as computers and cell phones, I think. I think there is also a little bit of luddite backlash among young people going around. I'm not as sure that it's a generational thing, though that would of course make sense.

Timber_8

I don't believe that is what I said. I don't have people on call and I don't call people 24/7, I was being rather vague. You have no idea the kind of work I do or the demands of my employees. I do however need to reach them constantly while they are on the clock. Since most of my employees spend there day out on the road it is vital that we have communication. If you think that there is a better way I would be very interested to entertain your suggestions. Your assumption of my attitude to the rights of my employees and the expectations I have of them is not very accurate.

asok

Ambulances can be quite helpful.

AlmostTrick

This is what I see way too often. People who are basically slaves to their phone. They can't go anywhere without out them, and can't seem to quit fiddling with them. Walking in the mall or walking the dog. Driving cars or riding bikes. I watch coworkers driving in the parking lot at work on their cell phones, when they are (or were) just two minutes away from their desk phone. Why is this so necessary?

I know plenty of people who text / read emails / answer calls while in the middle of a face to face conversation with others. My wife does too. She often gets snubbed for a phone call while talking in person to a guy in the cube right next to her. Sometimes just she gives up, goes back to her desk and calls him! It's just crazy I tell you.

I'm holding out on getting a cell phone for as long as possible, which may be forever. Honestly, I can't even recall an instance where I really wished I had one. If that ever changes, then I'll reconsider. Yeah, interesting thread for sure.

PaulRivers

Sometimes this is true, but this is hardly the kind of thing that's limited to cell phones. Some people just won't stop talking and feel uncomfortable if there's silence for more than a couple of seconds. My dads girlfriend can be like that. Some people have nervous habits. If it's not a cell phone it's something else.

The real question is - why *shouldn't* they be one their cell phone while doing these things? Now sometimes there's a huge obvious reason, like biking while talking on their phone. But is walking your dog with one other person also "inappropriate"? How would that be different than talking to someone on your phone while walking your dog?

You're way off base here. There are several reasons why this is very considerate and necessary.

1. Because your coworkers have work to do, and you don't need to be distracting them with a 20 minute conversation about your kids ballgame, the groceries you need to get, and how Timmy is sleeping over at Susie's house.

Or how you got drunk this weekend and the party was totally awesome.

Or how proud you are of your son who just took his first poopy in the toilet.

Or how your date went this weekend...

Or calming down a crying, emotionally distraught family member. Is crying at your desk about your dad that died last week while on the phone to your sister really appropriate?

But these are things you have every reason to talk about with your friend, spouse, etc.

2. Because, though your employer might not like it, you can't talk to a recruiter about finding a new job from your desk.

3. And obviously some topics cross the line from "rude" to "possibly illegal, and could get you fired". Talking about how naughty your dirty little girlfriend is and how hot she makes you...probably not a good idea to do at your desk.

Having these discussions away from your desk is common courtesy towards your coworkers.

4. And for some people, you don't want to look like you're having a personal conversation and "goofing off" at your desk.

That is crazy, but hardly the fault of cell phones. My dad talked about plenty of times he would go into see a client, have a scheduled meeting in their office, and their phone would ring they would pick it up and talk on it for 10 minutes. He was like "wtf? I drove all the way over here to see you in person - the least you could do is be a tiny bit considerate of my time, not leave me sitting here for 10 minutes while you chat about your golf game". Of course he couldn't say that, but the point is cell phones haven't changed that at all.

As I said, I find it far more freeing than it is restricting. I remember the days when if a girl said she was going to call I would have to sit at home and wait by the phone - being that girls haven't changed about that kind of thing, that totally sucked. Or when I'd try to meet someone at a restaurant neither of us had been to before - what a disaster. Or when I'd go to the Renaissance Festival - you couldn't just relax and enjoy yourself because if you got separated from the other people you were with, you were *screwed*, lol. You'd *never* find them again. With a cell it's far more relaxing - if I lose track of them and really want to find them, I call them. Someone calls me who's not in the group? I ignore it, I'll call them back after I leave. Is it a genuine emergency? They can text me, or call me 3 times in a row. Am I meeting someone somewhere and my car breaks down? I can call them and tell them - they don't need to wait for an hour wondering if I'm going to show up. And don't even get me started on how awesome gps is...

travelmama

Paul- You like, are killing me.

devianb

I have a basic cell phone and rarely use it. Definitely not essential. However if I could afford the monthly charges for a smartphone I would use it quite often when not at home.