Brooks Saddle
09-20-11 | 01:38 PM
#26
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 389
Likes: 0
From: Boston, MA
Bikes: Masi Speciale Randonneur, Fuji del Ray, Co-Motion Speedster
https://store.velo-orange.com/index.p...3-touring.html
https://store.velo-orange.com/index.p...e-model-8.html
The biggest problem I have had with the Model 3 is that the frame broke. The failure occurred at the point where the rail attaches to the rear support. This is a simple butt weld on the Model 3. On a Brooks B17 this joint is a mechanical connection, not a weld. While I was successful in getting the failed weld re-welded I regard the design as deficient. I might add that I am not very large at about 160 lbs.
Neither the Model 3 nor the Model 8 is particularly comfortable. I have ridden the Model 3 many miles and it is not much better now than a new B17 right out of the box. I surmise that the reason for this is the layer of material that is bonded to the underside of the leather. I'm not sure the purpose of this material. Perhaps it is there to help maintain shape. In any case a B17 is, for me, more comfortable.
The VO saddles also have a surface texture that the Brooks B17 does not have. I prefer the smooth slick B17.
https://store.velo-orange.com/index.p...e-model-8.html
The biggest problem I have had with the Model 3 is that the frame broke. The failure occurred at the point where the rail attaches to the rear support. This is a simple butt weld on the Model 3. On a Brooks B17 this joint is a mechanical connection, not a weld. While I was successful in getting the failed weld re-welded I regard the design as deficient. I might add that I am not very large at about 160 lbs.
Neither the Model 3 nor the Model 8 is particularly comfortable. I have ridden the Model 3 many miles and it is not much better now than a new B17 right out of the box. I surmise that the reason for this is the layer of material that is bonded to the underside of the leather. I'm not sure the purpose of this material. Perhaps it is there to help maintain shape. In any case a B17 is, for me, more comfortable.
The VO saddles also have a surface texture that the Brooks B17 does not have. I prefer the smooth slick B17.
So they definitely had a manufacturing or design defect but they corrected the problem pretty quickly.
Regarding the Brooks B17 in particular, I find that they are generally comfortable right out of the box and then improve with time and miles. For my first one I used mineral oil to help break in but the other three I have done nothing. I find them to be fine without any treatment. I should say it doesn't rain much here in Texas, especially lately.
Right now I have a B17 on my commuter, a VO Model 1 on my road bike (similar to a Brooks Pro), and and a Brooks Pro on my tandem. I previously had a VO Model 3 as well.
The B17 was comfortable when brand new, but after a year or so
it's sagging, crooked, and uncomfortable. I recently laced it which helps but isn't perfect.
The VO model 3 I had was a little too stiff at first. I removed the lacing and it was pretty good -- I think once it broke in it would have been really nice, but I never got to find out since the frame broke. The top of the saddle is nice and flat, which I find more comfortable than the hammock shape of a B17.
My VO Model 1 was ridiculously hard when new. It took a couple applications of neatsfoot oil and a season of riding to get it broken in, but it's pretty comfortable now -- probably better than the Brooks Pro (which I bought well-used and already broken in, so I don't know how the break-in process compares).
VO saddles also have a few nice touches -- longer rails, an allen bolt to adjust the tension, and saddlebag loops on all their models.
The comfort issue is obviously a matter of personal preference, but the VO saddles are definitely worth looking into for those who prefer a firmer saddle.
09-26-11 | 01:04 AM
#27
Senior Member
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 237
Likes: 10
From: Idaho
Bikes: 2002 Novara Ponderosa HT MTB 2011, Brompton M6L
I paid $85 earlier this year for a replacement B-17 through Amazon and just bought another for $91 and had a $3 shipping charge tacked onto that.
If you're lucky like me, a B-17 fits me right out of the box. I don't find the initial firmness uncomfortable at all. They do mold to you in time but if you're agonizing from the get go you most likely need to make some fine adjustments or you bought the wrong version for your butt.
I live in the high desert and rain is not much of an issue but if you choose to ride a leather saddle where you're likely in the rain then take all necessary measures to protect your saddle and not ride it when soaked.
If you're lucky like me, a B-17 fits me right out of the box. I don't find the initial firmness uncomfortable at all. They do mold to you in time but if you're agonizing from the get go you most likely need to make some fine adjustments or you bought the wrong version for your butt.
I live in the high desert and rain is not much of an issue but if you choose to ride a leather saddle where you're likely in the rain then take all necessary measures to protect your saddle and not ride it when soaked.
09-26-11 | 07:35 AM
#28
Motorcycle RoadRacer
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,826
Likes: 4
I got two genuine Brooks 17s on my two 79 Raleigh Competiton GSs. However, on my 85 Raleigh Prestige, I got a Chiniese Copy of a Brooks, which I paid $70 shipped to my door. I am happy with all 3.
The Chinese Brooks Copy:
$70 including shipping.
https://www.cehoward.net/white1.jpg
The Chinese Brooks Copy:
$70 including shipping.
https://www.cehoward.net/white1.jpg
09-29-12 | 03:18 PM
#29
Senior Member
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
From: Mansfield, Texas
Bikes: Soma Stanya Build, Trek build, Miyata 312, Miyata 710, Nashbar Toure MT, Giant hybrid
I do have experience with VO saddles and, while I am a big fan of VO in general and have bought many of their products, I would not recommend buying one of their saddles. I have a Model 3 (similar to a B17) and a sprung Model 8. Since buying these two saddles I have purchased four Brooks B17's. Needless to say I prefer the Brooks.
https://store.velo-orange.com/index.p...3-touring.html
https://store.velo-orange.com/index.p...e-model-8.html
The biggest problem I have had with the Model 3 is that the frame broke. The failure occurred at the point where the rail attaches to the rear support. This is a simple butt weld on the Model 3. On a Brooks B17 this joint is a mechanical connection, not a weld. While I was successful in getting the failed weld re-welded I regard the design as deficient. I might add that I am not very large at about 160 lbs.
Neither the Model 3 nor the Model 8 is particularly comfortable. I have ridden the Model 3 many miles and it is not much better now than a new B17 right out of the box. I surmise that the reason for this is the layer of material that is bonded to the underside of the leather. I'm not sure the purpose of this material. Perhaps it is there to help maintain shape. In any case a B17 is, for me, more comfortable.
The VO saddles also have a surface texture that the Brooks B17 does not have. I prefer the smooth slick B17.
I'm not saying that the VO saddles are really bad. I just would not buy one to save a few bucks or for style.
Regarding the Brooks B17 in particular, I find that they are generally comfortable right out of the box and then improve with time and miles. For my first one I used mineral oil to help break in but the other three I have done nothing. I find them to be fine without any treatment. I should say it doesn't rain much here in Texas, especially lately.
I buy my B17's from Amazon.com, $90 with free shipping.
One other aside, the VO Model 3 seems to be the same as the Cardiff Cornwall. At least they are very similar.
https://www.cardiffltd.com/cornwall.html
https://store.velo-orange.com/index.p...3-touring.html
https://store.velo-orange.com/index.p...e-model-8.html
The biggest problem I have had with the Model 3 is that the frame broke. The failure occurred at the point where the rail attaches to the rear support. This is a simple butt weld on the Model 3. On a Brooks B17 this joint is a mechanical connection, not a weld. While I was successful in getting the failed weld re-welded I regard the design as deficient. I might add that I am not very large at about 160 lbs.
Neither the Model 3 nor the Model 8 is particularly comfortable. I have ridden the Model 3 many miles and it is not much better now than a new B17 right out of the box. I surmise that the reason for this is the layer of material that is bonded to the underside of the leather. I'm not sure the purpose of this material. Perhaps it is there to help maintain shape. In any case a B17 is, for me, more comfortable.
The VO saddles also have a surface texture that the Brooks B17 does not have. I prefer the smooth slick B17.
I'm not saying that the VO saddles are really bad. I just would not buy one to save a few bucks or for style.
Regarding the Brooks B17 in particular, I find that they are generally comfortable right out of the box and then improve with time and miles. For my first one I used mineral oil to help break in but the other three I have done nothing. I find them to be fine without any treatment. I should say it doesn't rain much here in Texas, especially lately.
I buy my B17's from Amazon.com, $90 with free shipping.
One other aside, the VO Model 3 seems to be the same as the Cardiff Cornwall. At least they are very similar.
https://www.cardiffltd.com/cornwall.html
Wow! I'm impressed!!
I just received the replacement Model 3 Touring saddle that you sent because the aft rail weld had broken on my old one.
1. You did a warranty replacement even though your web site says your warranty is for one year on defective parts. My saddle was bought in 2009.
2. You sent the new saddle by priority mail so it got here quick.
3. The new saddle has a new design for the weld joint that combines a mechanical connection with a weld similar to how Brooks does their B17. Your design now looks even more robust than the Brooks.
4. The new saddle came in a nice drawstring bag. This is a little "over the top" perhaps but impressive nonetheless. My only regret is that the bag did not also contain a small bottle of Scotch.
Thank you for your excellent service. I plan to remain a faithful VO customer.
09-29-12 | 07:24 PM
#30
Senior Member
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 771
Likes: 2
Brooks B17 Standard - black 89.99 US dollars:
https://www.modernbike.com/itemgroup.asp?IGPK=2126176127
https://www.modernbike.com/itemgroup.asp?IGPK=2126176127
09-29-12 | 08:50 PM
#31
Yup
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,083
Likes: 6
From: where the sunbeams end and the starlight begins
Bikes: Kona Unit, planet X cx bike, khs fixed gear
Retrogression has team pros for $89.
__________________
When sadness fills my days
It's time to turn away
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When sadness fills my days
It's time to turn away
And then tomorrow's dreams
Become reality to me
09-30-12 | 06:19 AM
#32
Mirror slap survivor
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,297
Likes: 0
From: Sunny Florida
Bikes: Gunnar Sport, Surly Pacer, Access MTB, Ibex Corrida, one day a Simple City
A friend of mine had the VO saddle and was unable to get comfortable on it. He's a lightweight and the saddle was too hard for him. I believe VO's choice to bond the leather to a fiber material prevents a proper break-in. Now, I have three B17s, and all were comfortable out of the box. I weigh 175 pounds so I may be just heavy enough to get the leather to flex.
I have five thousand miles or more on each saddle, and I've yet to touch the adjustment screw on any of them. When I received my saddles, I coated them with a light amount of Proofide then left the saddles in my hot car on a summer afternoon. No neat's foot oil, no motor oil, just Proofide. The leather is soft enough, IMHO, and adding anything to make it softer only hastens the stretching.
The VO saddles are fine, and VO is a great company with which to do business, but Brooks has the leather saddle perfected. Much like Carradice, if you're going to buy that sort of product, you're best served to buy the original.
I have five thousand miles or more on each saddle, and I've yet to touch the adjustment screw on any of them. When I received my saddles, I coated them with a light amount of Proofide then left the saddles in my hot car on a summer afternoon. No neat's foot oil, no motor oil, just Proofide. The leather is soft enough, IMHO, and adding anything to make it softer only hastens the stretching.
The VO saddles are fine, and VO is a great company with which to do business, but Brooks has the leather saddle perfected. Much like Carradice, if you're going to buy that sort of product, you're best served to buy the original.
10-03-12 | 06:35 AM
#34
Senior Member
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,647
Likes: 6
From: Sudbury, ON, CA
Bikes: 2012 Kona Sutra, 2002 Look AL 384, 2018 Moose Fat bike
I was in the UK 15yrs ago and almost walked by a yardsale but glad I stopped. Picked up a brand new Brooks saddle (unknown model) for 5 pounds (can't find the pound symbol on my keyboard). Unfortunately, I lost it a few years ago.
10-03-12 | 11:56 AM
#35
Senior Member
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 489
Likes: 1
From: Cincinnati, Ohio
Bikes: '74 Schwinn Le Tour (x2), '83 Bianchi, '96 Trek 820, '96 Trek 470, '99 Xmart Squishy Bike, '03 Giant Cypress
VO, Gyes, and Cardiff saddles are all made by the same manufacturer. I believe that manufactorer also does other brands, such as Dia Compe branded saddles, and one or two others, I think.
I have a VO model 1 and a VO model 6 (which is the same as the Dia Compe saddles). I think they are fantastic, and I got both of them on sale for about $110 total, plus shipping. They were both treated with neatsfoot oil fairly often at the beginning, now just once in a while wipe-downs. I am a clyde at 225 lbs, so maybe that negated the extra stiffness from that mesh on the underside that some people worry with. Also, I am very tall/ long-legged, so I appreciate the longer rails on the VO saddles.
I am currently trying to decide between the Cardiff Cornwall (B17 clone) or maybe the Gyes version of the Brooks Flyer, for my next purchase. It'll go on my city-fied Trek 820.
I have a VO model 1 and a VO model 6 (which is the same as the Dia Compe saddles). I think they are fantastic, and I got both of them on sale for about $110 total, plus shipping. They were both treated with neatsfoot oil fairly often at the beginning, now just once in a while wipe-downs. I am a clyde at 225 lbs, so maybe that negated the extra stiffness from that mesh on the underside that some people worry with. Also, I am very tall/ long-legged, so I appreciate the longer rails on the VO saddles.
I am currently trying to decide between the Cardiff Cornwall (B17 clone) or maybe the Gyes version of the Brooks Flyer, for my next purchase. It'll go on my city-fied Trek 820.
10-03-12 | 01:43 PM
#36
One Man Fast Brick
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,121
Likes: 0
From: Chicagoland
Bikes: Specialized Langster, Bianchi San Jose, early 90s GT Karakoram, Yuba Mundo, Mercier Nano (mini velo), Nashbar Steel Commuter, KHS Tandemania Sport
I have a B17 standard, a VO model 3, and a Persons #77 Deluxe (link:https://www.permaco.com/en-us/dept_7.html) - all very similar saddle designs.
The VO is definitely the hardest of the three and is probably slightly less comfortable than the other two saddles for this 170 lb rider. Also, even after using the VO almost daily for a couple years, I am still not sure whether I care for its textured top over the smooth surface of the other saddles.
The B17 is, well, a B17. Comfortable right out of the box for me. The Persons saddle is very much like the B17, equally comfortable, but I have noticed a slight squeek with it on occasion that I have not had with the Brooks. I might be able to stop that with some tweaking if I tried, but I haven't tried. If I was needing to purchase a new saddle soon, I probably would save a few bucks and go with another Persons model, maybe the Majestic this time.
The VO is definitely the hardest of the three and is probably slightly less comfortable than the other two saddles for this 170 lb rider. Also, even after using the VO almost daily for a couple years, I am still not sure whether I care for its textured top over the smooth surface of the other saddles.
The B17 is, well, a B17. Comfortable right out of the box for me. The Persons saddle is very much like the B17, equally comfortable, but I have noticed a slight squeek with it on occasion that I have not had with the Brooks. I might be able to stop that with some tweaking if I tried, but I haven't tried. If I was needing to purchase a new saddle soon, I probably would save a few bucks and go with another Persons model, maybe the Majestic this time.
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