Joggers in the Bike Lane.
03-18-12 | 02:27 AM
#76
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From: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
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I've heard this claim before, have there been any actual scientific studies done that prove or disprove this claim?
03-18-12 | 02:41 AM
#77
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From: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
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Agree to disagree. I see no difference between running in the bike lane and running in the road- both come with risks and you have to be aware of what's around you and prepared to get out of the way, but they're also both more practical for a lot of runners rather than being in a crowded busted-up sidewalk.
Complaining about runners with iPods and dogs is about on par with complaining about bikers with iPods who don't have proper lights. Both are road hazards (and jerks) but they don't mean that everyone running or biking should stay off the road.
Complaining about runners with iPods and dogs is about on par with complaining about bikers with iPods who don't have proper lights. Both are road hazards (and jerks) but they don't mean that everyone running or biking should stay off the road.
Given that it is clearly marked for bicycle use only joggers should stay out of it.
03-18-12 | 02:53 AM
#78
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From: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
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I believe though that the law in most areas clearly states that if there is a sidewalk present that that is where pedestrians which joggers are belong there.
03-18-12 | 02:59 AM
#79
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From: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
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If there is someone jogging/running in the bike lane that "forced" the cyclist into the travel lane then the jogger/runner is at least partially at fault, as if the jogger/runner wasn't there than the cyclist wouldn't have been forced out into the travel lane as it were.
03-18-12 | 03:17 AM
#80
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03-18-12 | 03:21 AM
#81
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03-18-12 | 03:33 AM
#82
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From: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
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1. No excuse... Period. Designated bicycle lanes, are for bicycle transit use ONLY, (does not include automobiles and delivery vehicles that park for a short period of time for delivery in the absence of appropriate adjacent parking to a business). Just because some people are starting to take certain liberties based on their own preference or opinion, does not make the practice safe or legal.
And the doctrine of last clear chance aside, if a pedestrian gets hit by a cyclist while they're in the bike lane and there was a sidewalk present have no one to blame but themselves. And if they're the one's who claim that the asphalt is "easier" on the knees. Then maybe they need to apply pressure to get jogger/runner friendly sidewalks built, or public tracks.
2. If you see a cyclist transiting against the normal flow of traffic, such occurrences should be reported as would be the case with any other traffic violation or action that could pose a safety risk to himself, other cyclists, or the traffic adjacent to that lane. Remember, cyclists are REQUIRED to transit in a manner consistent with the flow of normal traffic, (in other words, are supposed to be part of the normal flow of traffic), and not an entity apart. Some states are seriously starting to consider requiring that any cyclist transiting on public roads to be required to have a current form of identification. If you get stopped by a law enforcement officer in those states, because you are committing an infraction, you don't get talked to, and later let go home. You are given a citation, and if warranted, you will be arrested and taken into custody.
03-18-12 | 03:35 AM
#83
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From: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
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Sharing, it's a good concept to teach to your children. ......... that, and I don't want to live in a society where we expect our law enforcement officers to issue tickets to someone out for a bit of exercise.
Beyond that, y'all are just getting angry over something that really isn't that important in the grand scheme of things. If someone is jogging, slide around them... it's pretty easy.
Beyond that, y'all are just getting angry over something that really isn't that important in the grand scheme of things. If someone is jogging, slide around them... it's pretty easy.
03-18-12 | 03:38 AM
#84
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From: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
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Running on concrete sucks, I can completely understand why these people are on the bike lanes. If they're doing things right they should see bikers coming toward them and have the common sense to get the f out of the way. Back when I did a lot of running that's what I did, same when I'm on a trail and you come up to a bunch of MTB'ers. This should be obvious from a safety perspective, but I guess that gets blown into the wind for most people until the moment they get hurt.
03-18-12 | 03:42 AM
#85
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From: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
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If we expect cars to share the road with us, we can share the bike lane with a jogger or two. Cars travel 2-4 times faster than a bike normally; bikes travel 2 times faster than a jogger normally.
There are many reasons why a jogger might use the road, but safety and joint health can be primary reasons. As far as I know, it is perfectly legal to jog and/or walk on the side of the road in most areas. How does the "get the f*** on the sidewalk!" comment make you feel as a law abiding cyclist?
There are many reasons why a jogger might use the road, but safety and joint health can be primary reasons. As far as I know, it is perfectly legal to jog and/or walk on the side of the road in most areas. How does the "get the f*** on the sidewalk!" comment make you feel as a law abiding cyclist?
And how many joggers/runners/walkers do you think are silently or not cursing the cyclist for "ruining" their run/jog/walk simply for having been in their bike lane?
03-18-12 | 03:45 AM
#86
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03-18-12 | 03:46 AM
#87
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03-18-12 | 03:48 AM
#88
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03-18-12 | 03:49 AM
#89
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From: Tampa/St. Pete, Florida
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It is my understanding that if there is a sidewalk present then that is where pedestrians belong. And that they're only allowed on the roadway itself if there is no sidewalk present.
03-18-12 | 03:58 AM
#91
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03-18-12 | 04:03 AM
#92
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Not a problem here. I think I am the only person stupid or crazy enough to run in Bangkok heat. But now that I have a bike I don't have to run.
The biggest problem here is old cyclists riding the wrong way. But they are easy to avoid. Traffic doesn't move all that fast here. For once traffic jams work in my favour.
The biggest problem here is old cyclists riding the wrong way. But they are easy to avoid. Traffic doesn't move all that fast here. For once traffic jams work in my favour.
03-18-12 | 03:08 PM
#95
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Determining Hardness and Elastic Modulus of Asphalt by Nanoindentation
by Rafiqul A. Tarefder, (corresponding author), M.ASCE, (Assistant Professor, Dept. of Civil Engineering, Univ. of New Mexico, MSC01 1070, Albuquerque, NM 87131 E-mail: tarefder@unm.edu), Arif M. Zaman, (Graduate Research Assistant and Ph.D. Candidate, Dept. of Civil Engineering, Univ. of New Mexico, MSC01 1070, Albuquerque, NM 87131. E-mail: arif@unm.edu), and Waheed Uddin, M.ASCE, (Professor of Civil Engineering, Univ. of Mississippi, University, MS 38677-1848. E-mail: cvuddin@olemiss.edu)
International Journal of Geomechanics, Vol. 10, No. 3, May/June 2010, pp. 106-116, (doi https://dx.doi.org/10.1061/(ASCE)GM.1943-5622.0000048)
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Document type: Journal Paper
Abstract: Nanoindentation is a relatively new technique which has been used to measure nanomechanical properties of surface layers of bulk materials and of thin films. In this study, micromechanical properties such as hardness and Young’s modulus of asphalt binders and asphalt concrete are determined by nanoindentation experiments. Indentation tests are conducted on a base binder and two polymer-modified performance grade (PG) binders such as PG-70-22 and PG76-28. In addition, two Superpave asphalt mixes such as SP-B and SP-III are designed using these PG binders, and the corresponding mixes are compacted to prepare asphalt concrete. Aggregate, matrix (Materials Passing No. 4 sieve) and mastic (Materials Passing No. 200 sieve) phases of each asphalt concrete sample are indented using both Berkovich and Spherical indenters. In nanoindentation, an indenter penetrates into asphalt material and the load (milli-Newton) and the depth (nanometers) of indentation are recorded continuously. Indentation load versus displacement data are analyzed using Oliver and Pharr method to measure hardness and Young’s modulus. The unloading data of base binder is a straight line and therefore could not be analyzed using Oliver and Pharr’s method. However, the indentation data of the PG grade binders are successfully analyzed. Young’s modulus value is less than 3 GPa for mastic, 3 to 12 GPa for matrix, and greater than 12 GPa for aggregate studied herein. Based on the hardness data, mastic is 2 to 15 times softer than matrix materials, and matrix is 10 times softer than aggregate materials. The fact that the properties of the mastic can be measured while in the mixture, this study has great potential for realistic characterization of asphalt mixture components. In this study, spherical indenter is found to be suitable for asphalt binders based on the fact that the spherical indenter produces higher indentation depths than the Berkovich indenter. The study contributes significantly to the use of nanoindentation for transportation material characterization.
ASCE Subject Headings:
Asphalts
Binders (material)
Concrete
Micromechanics
Nanotechnology
Young’s modulus
by Rafiqul A. Tarefder, (corresponding author), M.ASCE, (Assistant Professor, Dept. of Civil Engineering, Univ. of New Mexico, MSC01 1070, Albuquerque, NM 87131 E-mail: tarefder@unm.edu), Arif M. Zaman, (Graduate Research Assistant and Ph.D. Candidate, Dept. of Civil Engineering, Univ. of New Mexico, MSC01 1070, Albuquerque, NM 87131. E-mail: arif@unm.edu), and Waheed Uddin, M.ASCE, (Professor of Civil Engineering, Univ. of Mississippi, University, MS 38677-1848. E-mail: cvuddin@olemiss.edu)
International Journal of Geomechanics, Vol. 10, No. 3, May/June 2010, pp. 106-116, (doi https://dx.doi.org/10.1061/(ASCE)GM.1943-5622.0000048)
Purchase this Article/Access full text
Purchase Subscription
Permissions for Reuse
View Issue Table of Contents
Document type: Journal Paper
Abstract: Nanoindentation is a relatively new technique which has been used to measure nanomechanical properties of surface layers of bulk materials and of thin films. In this study, micromechanical properties such as hardness and Young’s modulus of asphalt binders and asphalt concrete are determined by nanoindentation experiments. Indentation tests are conducted on a base binder and two polymer-modified performance grade (PG) binders such as PG-70-22 and PG76-28. In addition, two Superpave asphalt mixes such as SP-B and SP-III are designed using these PG binders, and the corresponding mixes are compacted to prepare asphalt concrete. Aggregate, matrix (Materials Passing No. 4 sieve) and mastic (Materials Passing No. 200 sieve) phases of each asphalt concrete sample are indented using both Berkovich and Spherical indenters. In nanoindentation, an indenter penetrates into asphalt material and the load (milli-Newton) and the depth (nanometers) of indentation are recorded continuously. Indentation load versus displacement data are analyzed using Oliver and Pharr method to measure hardness and Young’s modulus. The unloading data of base binder is a straight line and therefore could not be analyzed using Oliver and Pharr’s method. However, the indentation data of the PG grade binders are successfully analyzed. Young’s modulus value is less than 3 GPa for mastic, 3 to 12 GPa for matrix, and greater than 12 GPa for aggregate studied herein. Based on the hardness data, mastic is 2 to 15 times softer than matrix materials, and matrix is 10 times softer than aggregate materials. The fact that the properties of the mastic can be measured while in the mixture, this study has great potential for realistic characterization of asphalt mixture components. In this study, spherical indenter is found to be suitable for asphalt binders based on the fact that the spherical indenter produces higher indentation depths than the Berkovich indenter. The study contributes significantly to the use of nanoindentation for transportation material characterization.
ASCE Subject Headings:
Asphalts
Binders (material)
Concrete
Micromechanics
Nanotechnology
Young’s modulus
03-18-12 | 03:57 PM
#96
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Let me be more specific. I agree with you that if I see a bicyclist coming up to me, on the side of the road, I should move. I do. Based on what I've read in this thread, many of you find it funny to make runners dive for cover when you come by.
Do you not see this as exactly the same mindset that you all feel victimized by with motorists?
So, based on your astute logic of right and wrong, if I see a cyclist on the sidewalk, I'm allowed to attempt to do gross bodily harm to him in the name of "Sidewalks are for pedestrians only!"
Of course not, stop being so singleminded in your righteousness. Much as there is room for bicyclists, even on roads without bike lanes, there is room for conscientiousness runners in bike lanes. I fail to see how someone as smart as yourself cannot fathom this, let alone agree that we're dealing with extremes that hurt everybody.
Sidewalks, mind you, were never made with the intention of running, or even valid "healthy" walking. It originated back to what, 1660. I'm not even sure why I'm wasting time asking you to show courtesy to fellow cyclists who also run for their health.
03-18-12 | 04:08 PM
#97
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03-18-12 | 06:23 PM
#98
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As far as I know, only IF there is NO sidewalk present. IF there is a sidewalk present then pedestrians belong there and NOT in the bike lane.
And how many joggers/runners/walkers do you think are silently or not cursing the cyclist for "ruining" their run/jog/walk simply for having been in their bike lane?
And how many joggers/runners/walkers do you think are silently or not cursing the cyclist for "ruining" their run/jog/walk simply for having been in their bike lane?
From Minnesota statues:
Subd. 5.Walk on left side of roadway. Pedestrians when walking or moving in a wheelchair along a roadway shall, when practicable, walk or move on the left side of the roadway or its shoulder giving way to oncoming traffic. Where sidewalks are provided and are accessible and usable it shall be unlawful for any pedestrian to walk or move in a wheelchair along and upon an adjacent roadway.
Those three are the big ifs. I've walked on plenty of sidewalks that were neither much accessible or usable without using adjacent private land. I'd imagine a statue like this is could be liberally interpreted by joggers, much like the "as far right as practical" law is interpreted by VCers.
03-18-12 | 06:48 PM
#99
In the right lane
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Not a problem for me since my city put in separate a jogging lane & a dog walking lane. The problem now is that the dog walking lane is filling up with people in those silly bouncy shoes, and dogs love to chase them. The bouncy shoe lane won't be done for another few years.
03-18-12 | 07:21 PM
#100
Don from Austin Texas
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I CAN see runners disliking decrepit sidewalks where the the concrete slabs are all in upheaval.
Don in Austin