Is that a typo? New York City comes in at only 27000 to 28000 per sq mile.

Yes! Thanks!

There are essentially, two types of urban areas:

An urbanized area = 1,000+/sq. mi (at least 50,000).... An urban cluster is less than 50,000.

I've never lived somewhere with 200,000 people and had it considered major.

Heck, I live in an MSA of 1.3 million and it's only considered major by the locals. Dallas people laugh at us.

That makes sense. Where I live is definitely an urban area, I'm not arguing that. I'm just saying it takes a certain size and density to make extensive public transit possible, especially public transit that serves people beyond the core city of a smaller urban area. I actually ride the bus a lot when I'm not biking, but I work 3 blocks from the bus station downtown (where most of the routes converge), and I actually studied the bus routes before choosing to buy my house. I'm right on a "spoke" and work near the "hub," so it works well for me, but it doesn't work well for a lot of people. I've lived in/near three mid-sized cities (Buffalo, Syracuse, NY, and Springfield, MA) and that's how it worked in all three. Buffalo was the only one that had a train, and it is (or was at the time) a single line that ended at the city limits.

I hope we haven't strayed too far from the OP's question. He/she didn't provide a lot of information about the city, but for me it brought to mind the small to medium bluecollar "mill town" type cities that are prevalent in the east and midwest. I could certainly be wrong about that.

Interesting discussion. I live in a suburb (Whittier) of a major metro area (Los Angeles) and I do use the Metro train in addition to my bicycle routes. I live 6.5 mi. from the Metro station, and while we do have our share of morons, the vast majority of my commute is on major streets without bike lanes (not that morons respect bike lanes either).

That said and with my morning commute in the dark (pretty much) all year long (at work by 6:30AM) I am treated fairly well by both the normal morons and the moron-elite. Yes, I have lots of flashing lights and reflective bits on the bike and helmet, plus I wear a neon yellow/green vest with reflective stripes . . . but all that wouldn't faze a moron-elite.

I don't use a mirror, essentially because I ride a folding bike and the mirror restricts the fold, but haven't found that a problem. Maybe I should try a helmet mounted type? Anyway, thanks to everyone for all their input on this thread. Just another reason I try to check in on the commuting forum fairly often.

Rick / OCRR

Can someone tell me what looking Freddy means? I see it quoted on BikeSnob NYC all the time.

There are varying definition, but it's basically an epithet the cool, skinny road guys in their color coordinated spandex toss around at regular slobs like us. It really just seems to be looking dorky, usually with a beard. Lots of electronics, lights, mirrors, and kitty litter tub panniers are a sure sign of being a Fred.

The term "Fred" started out as a road racing term, and describes basically a newbie, especially those who showed up at races and were unattached to teams. They show up generally not wearing a team kit, but cycling shorts and some sort of t-shirt or day-glo color jersey. They chop corners, they half wheel, they don't know how to hold a line.... generally just making life miserable in the pack.

Eventually the term was co-opted to mean anyone in cycling who is un-cool, which is all of us at some point. Some evolve, some don't.

I think the more Fredly you are, the cooler you are.

And if you do evolve, you become a Fred, right?

Everyone is a Fred. Some of us are just more in touch with our Inner Fred than others.

Fred-ness is all relative. Unless you are in the European Pro peleton, you cannot shed, all of the Fred. (a little Dr. Seuss for y'all this afternoon).

Yeah I'm in the Memphis area, and all they have is a measly bus service serving within the city limits. Nothing even close to what NYC, Boston, Chicago, DC, SanFran, etc. have. Most of the population of this area live outside the city limits in the county, and some even in neighboring counties, or even neighboring states (me)! There are some midtown and downtown areas that are becoming more and more bike friendly, but that's coming from me speaking as an outside as I don't actually live in those areas or have biked in them.

Sorry, I find the 'Fred' label idiotic on a commuter forum.

Oh, I do too to a certain extent. I use it in a joking sense that embraces it. I've been in computers/IT literally my entire working life, so I've gotten used to the nerd and dork comments that go with that and embraced them. I've done the same with the Fred jokes.

Seriously, though. My bike's mirror is super-dorky looking. But I like it way too much to get rid of it. Maybe a helmet mirror instead , one of these days.

I hate helmet mirrors.

Ah crap! What does that make me then? Fred-ette? Fredwina? Frita?

I think Fran is the closest. But I like Frita. Or Fritata. Mmm, eggs.

Freida?

Colorado Springs and Lubbock, Texas are two cities that come to mind. They are not even suburbs, but large enough cities on their own merit, and public transit is woefully inadequate. It ain't just about the suburbs, some cities do not have decent mass transit.

Same in Plano, TX. I worked about half an hour away from home at one point, without traffic, and I tried to find a bus route that would take me there, but it would take two hours of transferring from one bus line to another to another and riding in circles, plus a thirty minute walk to the nearest bus station, to get me there. It was like no one even gave convenience a thought. ((And my work was on a major street, so it shouldn't have taken that long.)) Not only would it have been inconvenient, it would've cost a fortune.

Luckily, however, Plano is very bike friendly, even if the drivers are not.

IM in kokomo, Im looking forward to ride on the nickle plate trail but it will come to no help to me on my ride to and from work. I might be overreacting.

No mirror but Im going to get one. The are cheap and I can put it on my helmet. So Win Win

How long have you been in Kokomo, maybe I can show you some different routes that work well for me.

Nah, I think people are just nicer here. I always wear cycling clothes and usually wear neon yellow jerseys or jackets when commuting. I rarely ever get honked or yelled at.