"Just Ride" by Grant Petersen
05-31-12, 01:02 AM
#151
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Incheon, South Korea
Posts: 2,835
Bikes: Nothing amazing... cheap old 21 speed mtb
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
In my case wearing what I want to work in on the bike would be foolish. I have 15-20km commutes and short windows of time to commute in so I'm usually pushing to 60-80% of my maximum output to leave enough time to get to work, get changed and freshened up, get my materials ready and start teaching. I'll wear my work clothes to the next appointment if its only a few km away, but if I'm going to get a good sweat up I wear my padded bicycle shorts, Jersey, and matching bandana/mask. Why? Because its comfortable.
I think his point that its not nessecary to ride a racing bike to work is valid. My exercise bike started as a $400 mtb and gradually got upgraded here and there when parts came available second hand. Its probably more like a $1000 bike in terms of new prices now. That makes it unsuitable for a lot of commutes so I ride $300 mtb with baskets, lights, a modified drive train for a little more speed, and dual purpose tires to work. Still more than I like to leave parked outside, but it has to ride nicely as well and there is a limit to much Bicyce shaped objectness I'll tolerate.
I think his point that its not nessecary to ride a racing bike to work is valid. My exercise bike started as a $400 mtb and gradually got upgraded here and there when parts came available second hand. Its probably more like a $1000 bike in terms of new prices now. That makes it unsuitable for a lot of commutes so I ride $300 mtb with baskets, lights, a modified drive train for a little more speed, and dual purpose tires to work. Still more than I like to leave parked outside, but it has to ride nicely as well and there is a limit to much Bicyce shaped objectness I'll tolerate.
05-31-12, 04:01 AM
#152
Kid A
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Alexandria, VA
Posts: 1,778
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times
in
5 Posts
Of course, the process for producing synthetic materials uses fossil fuels, is also environmentally harmful, and the end products do not biodegrade, and the money goes to multinational corporations who use it to further their own short-term interests at the expense of the health of the earth and private citizens. So pick your poison.
Of course none of this changes my opinion in the least -- I couldn't be more cynical about things like this. Leather and wool work better than other materials (for a lot of people at least), that's why people use them. That was my only point. Sure, the industry may cause soil erosion and/or possible suffering by cattle/sheep. Since the whole world is a joke, I'm sure that the industries for "alternative" products also force workers to get their arms severed in machinery, work 40+ hours away from their families each week, and discharge liquid plastic into major waterbodies preventing endangered sturgeon from reproducing.
Vegan-police: Please go away. All you do is pester and annoy, and make me want to turn down my A/C from 72 to 68F.
05-31-12, 06:50 AM
#153
Infamous Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 24,360
Bikes: Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
3 Posts
__________________
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
05-31-12, 06:51 AM
#154
Infamous Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Ohio
Posts: 24,360
Bikes: Surly Big Dummy, Fuji World, 80ish Bianchi
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
3 Posts
I've been riding for over 40 years - mostly without padded shorts....what are these butt callouses that you speak of?
__________________
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
"Let us hope our weapons are never needed --but do not forget what the common people knew when they demanded the Bill of Rights: An armed citizenry is the first defense, the best defense, and the final defense against tyranny. If guns are outlawed, only the government will have guns. Only the police, the secret police, the military, the hired servants of our rulers. Only the government -- and a few outlaws. I intend to be among the outlaws" - Edward Abbey
05-31-12, 09:33 AM
#155
GATC
Of course, the process for producing synthetic materials uses fossil fuels, is also environmentally harmful, and the end products do not biodegrade, and the money goes to multinational corporations who use it to further their own short-term interests at the expense of the health of the earth and private citizens. So pick your poison.
05-31-12, 11:10 AM
#156
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Eugene, Oregon
Posts: 1,345
Bikes: 2014 Specialized Dolce Triple, 1987 Schwinn Tempo, 2012 Windsor Kensington 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I appreciate the additional info -- I was one step further in the process than maybe what the veggie guy was talking about.
Of course none of this changes my opinion in the least -- I couldn't be more cynical about things like this. Leather and wool work better than other materials (for a lot of people at least), that's why people use them. That was my only point. Sure, the industry may cause soil erosion and/or possible suffering by cattle/sheep. Since the whole world is a joke, I'm sure that the industries for "alternative" products also force workers to get their arms severed in machinery, work 40+ hours away from their families each week, and discharge liquid plastic into major waterbodies preventing endangered sturgeon from reproducing.
Vegan-police: Please go away. All you do is pester and annoy, and make me want to turn down my A/C from 72 to 68F.
Of course none of this changes my opinion in the least -- I couldn't be more cynical about things like this. Leather and wool work better than other materials (for a lot of people at least), that's why people use them. That was my only point. Sure, the industry may cause soil erosion and/or possible suffering by cattle/sheep. Since the whole world is a joke, I'm sure that the industries for "alternative" products also force workers to get their arms severed in machinery, work 40+ hours away from their families each week, and discharge liquid plastic into major waterbodies preventing endangered sturgeon from reproducing.
Vegan-police: Please go away. All you do is pester and annoy, and make me want to turn down my A/C from 72 to 68F.
Don't even get me started on Monsanto and the push for tofu as an alternative protein source.
05-31-12, 11:12 AM
#157
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Eugene, Oregon
Posts: 1,345
Bikes: 2014 Specialized Dolce Triple, 1987 Schwinn Tempo, 2012 Windsor Kensington 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Yes refineries are noted for the sensitivity to the environment and staff.
.
05-31-12, 03:06 PM
#159
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,865
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2952 Post(s)
Liked 3,106 Times
in
1,417 Posts
grant wasn't merely suggesting that there might be another way of doing things (extremely reasonable), he was saying that commuting in cycling-specific clothing is ridiculous and that there isn't any room for debate on the subject (ass).
when i hear phrases like "where is there room for debate?" about a topic as hugely subjective as what to wear when cycling, i know that i'm listening to an obnoxious, arrogant, closed-minded, blow-hard tool.
here is the gospel truth:
when i hear phrases like "where is there room for debate?" about a topic as hugely subjective as what to wear when cycling, i know that i'm listening to an obnoxious, arrogant, closed-minded, blow-hard tool.
here is the gospel truth:
Sorry, Grant. Today I do need a race bike and lycra shorts because it's the middle of race season, and I'm going to be doing 6x5' at 103-108% FTP. It just so happens that as working dad and bike racer, I need to do my training on the way to the office. And I may stop by the store on the way home to pick up some bread and milk. It might be better if I had a handsewn leather and wool saddle bag, but I can manage with a backpack.
He loves to tell folks they don't need a race bike to ride to work. But he forgets that they also don't need a neo-retro 650B porteur bike to go to the store. See, there really is more than one way to ride a bike.
05-31-12, 03:10 PM
#160
sniffin' glue
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,177
Bikes: Surly crosscheck ssfg, Custom vintage french racing bike, Bruce Gordon Rock & Road
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I prefer to ride with my panties in a wad...
05-31-12, 05:20 PM
#161
GATC
05-31-12, 07:59 PM
#162
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Naptown
Posts: 1,133
Bikes: NWT 24sp DD; Brompton M6R
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
1 Post
I think they were talking about the people who produce the leather that the workers in the Brooks factory use. Tanneries are notoriously noxious and deleterious to the environment, many are located in Pakistan where it's easy for the money to end up supporting terrorist organizations. (Though they do prefer the opium and gem trade.) It can be really difficult to get leather at commercial quantities from anywhere in Europe because of the labor and environmental protections.
06-01-12, 07:54 AM
#163
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 489
Bikes: '74 Schwinn Le Tour (x2), '83 Bianchi, '96 Trek 820, '96 Trek 470, '99 Xmart Squishy Bike, '03 Giant Cypress
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
06-01-12, 08:53 AM
#164
Senior Member
06-01-12, 09:50 AM
#166
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Eugene, Oregon
Posts: 1,345
Bikes: 2014 Specialized Dolce Triple, 1987 Schwinn Tempo, 2012 Windsor Kensington 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
06-01-12, 10:26 AM
#167
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 8,896
Bikes: Waterford RST-22, Bob Jackson World Tour, Ritchey Breakaway Cross, Soma Saga, De Bernardi SL, Specialized Sequoia
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 196 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
4 Posts
Personally I think GP makes outlandish statements and exaggerates as a way to generate publicity. After all, he worked in marketing early in his career. One of the things you often hear in PR is that there's no such thing as bad publicity. In his case, it probably generates more book sales and visitors to the Rivendell website.
That said, if I wore work clothes on my bike commute, my clothes would be drenched in sweat and smell all day long at work. Even on morning commutes in winter, my cycling clothes get damp from sweat during my commute. One days like today with nearly 100% humidity and warm temperatures, my cycling clothes are totally soaked when I get to work in the morning. Try doing that in cotton, tweed or wool and see how many friends you have at the end of the day!
That said, if I wore work clothes on my bike commute, my clothes would be drenched in sweat and smell all day long at work. Even on morning commutes in winter, my cycling clothes get damp from sweat during my commute. One days like today with nearly 100% humidity and warm temperatures, my cycling clothes are totally soaked when I get to work in the morning. Try doing that in cotton, tweed or wool and see how many friends you have at the end of the day!
06-01-12, 11:17 AM
#168
Senior Member
Personally I think GP makes outlandish statements and exaggerates as a way to generate publicity. After all, he worked in marketing early in his career. One of the things you often hear in PR is that there's no such thing as bad publicity. In his case, it probably generates more book sales and visitors to the Rivendell website.
That said, if I wore work clothes on my bike commute, my clothes would be drenched in sweat and smell all day long at work. Even on morning commutes in winter, my cycling clothes get damp from sweat during my commute. One days like today with nearly 100% humidity and warm temperatures, my cycling clothes are totally soaked when I get to work in the morning. Try doing that in cotton, tweed or wool and see how many friends you have at the end of the day!
That said, if I wore work clothes on my bike commute, my clothes would be drenched in sweat and smell all day long at work. Even on morning commutes in winter, my cycling clothes get damp from sweat during my commute. One days like today with nearly 100% humidity and warm temperatures, my cycling clothes are totally soaked when I get to work in the morning. Try doing that in cotton, tweed or wool and see how many friends you have at the end of the day!
Last edited by alan s; 06-01-12 at 11:43 AM.
06-01-12, 11:27 AM
#169
sniffin' glue
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,177
Bikes: Surly crosscheck ssfg, Custom vintage french racing bike, Bruce Gordon Rock & Road
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
When living in Lyon i rarely saw anyone in a kit or wearing reflective gear, and hardly ever saw helmets. The traffic there can be just as bad as major cities in the US, and it gets hot as hell in the summer and very cold/snowy in the winter. Some parts of the city ain't flat either. Why can people there do it but here everyone has an excuse as to why it can't be done?
Here in seattle you see highlighters and traffic cones all over the place. These people are COMMUTERS. Big difference between commuters and transportation cyclists IMO. They ride their bike to work and back home, then get in their car to go grocery shopping, go out to the movies, out to eat whatever. Most of the people I know that use bikes as their main transport to not wear the neon yellow and full kits, because th ebike is just another way to get you where you are going. Honestly I'd rather show up to dinner a little sweaty than dressed as a highlighter.
Here in seattle you see highlighters and traffic cones all over the place. These people are COMMUTERS. Big difference between commuters and transportation cyclists IMO. They ride their bike to work and back home, then get in their car to go grocery shopping, go out to the movies, out to eat whatever. Most of the people I know that use bikes as their main transport to not wear the neon yellow and full kits, because th ebike is just another way to get you where you are going. Honestly I'd rather show up to dinner a little sweaty than dressed as a highlighter.
06-01-12, 11:30 AM
#170
sniffin' glue
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,177
Bikes: Surly crosscheck ssfg, Custom vintage french racing bike, Bruce Gordon Rock & Road
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Seattle times profiled a bike commuter....way to make people want to cycle, here is a pic of the guy:
IMO they should have profiled the guy in the background, but no, you have to instill fear in the common american.
IMO they should have profiled the guy in the background, but no, you have to instill fear in the common american.
06-01-12, 11:38 AM
#171
born again cyclist
no excuses, i just do what works for me.
you should do whatever works for you.
Last edited by Steely Dan; 06-01-12 at 11:43 AM.
06-01-12, 11:40 AM
#172
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Far beyond the pale horizon.
Posts: 14,278
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4260 Post(s)
Liked 1,364 Times
in
945 Posts
Of course, the process for producing synthetic materials uses fossil fuels, is also environmentally harmful, and the end products do not biodegrade, and the money goes to multinational corporations who use it to further their own short-term interests at the expense of the health of the earth and private citizens. So pick your poison.
Last edited by njkayaker; 06-01-12 at 11:47 AM.
06-01-12, 11:41 AM
#173
sniffin' glue
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,177
Bikes: Surly crosscheck ssfg, Custom vintage french racing bike, Bruce Gordon Rock & Road
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
06-01-12, 11:42 AM
#174
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Beaverton, OR
Posts: 14,744
Bikes: Yes
Mentioned: 525 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3230 Post(s)
Liked 3,869 Times
in
1,439 Posts
I "just rode" today. I had an appointment with the chiropractor this morning, so I grabbed my singlespeed Cross Check with platform pedals and rode to my appointment in my usual work clothes (jeans and a cotton T-shirt), from there I rode to the light rail station and finally from another light rail station to the office. Each of these trips was about a mile and a half. It was about 65 degrees and overcast this morning. I arrived at each of my destinations a little sweaty, and "Mr. Winky" wasn't always as comfortable as I would have liked. (In the interest of full disclosure, I was using a messenger bag rather than the sort of bike mounted luggage Grant would recommend.) If I had it to do over again, or if this were typical of my daily routine, I wouldn't change a thing other than maybe going with a trunk bag (though that adds its own inconveniences).
However, this isn't my normal commute. My normal commute is ten miles with a few hills, and it's usually raining. I don't need (or wear) racing kit for this, but wearing my normal work clothes would be pointless (not to mention uncomfortable) because I'd have to change into a different set of work clothes once I got to work anyway.
Also, are you seriously arguing against reflective gear? Really?
__________________
My Bikes
My Bikes
06-01-12, 11:42 AM
#175
sniffin' glue
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,177
Bikes: Surly crosscheck ssfg, Custom vintage french racing bike, Bruce Gordon Rock & Road
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
i don't have any excuse for why it can't be done, nor would i even make such a claim in the first place. i merely PREFER (hmmm, there's that word "prefer" again) riding in cycling clothing on my 30 miles/day of bike commuting because i get super effing sweaty when i ride to work and i don't enjoy spending a 9 hour work day in sweaty clothing. it really is just that simple.
no excuses, i just do what works for me.
you should do whatever works for you.
no excuses, i just do what works for me.
you should do whatever works for you.