I hear you . I just don't want see this get into a full blown argument with everyone.

If you go into any uniform supply place that caters to cops, they'll sell you the good stuff. At least in the RED states they will. I think they ought to put pepper spray in a can that looks exactly like Binaca breath spray.

Why?

Seriously! I clocked my dog in a sprint at 32 mph... Better make sure you are not on a hill or at the end of your ride if you wanna outrun these dogs.

Cuz' it would give you a sense of humor.

Oh.

Pepper spray and kansas wind, no go. I agree with the street smarts thing. My apartment is next to an alley and i live in a bad neighborhood. If i see 3-4 young black men walking in my alley i go around them and come in from the street side. Actually pretty much anyone i would avoid, but definately the 3-4 young black men i described.

And BTW, screw racism, try racial profiling, and since im not a cop i can just admit to it. 90% of interracial crime is black on white. If you see 4 black men and you think, hey im not gonna be a racist and avoid them, ur asking to be a victim.

The problem with this line of "thinking" is that you might get your ass kicked by 4 white guys and never see it coming. Also, if you recognize your racism, the logical action is to overcome it, not to brag about it. Watch and learn.

I'm not a racist moron, 90% of interracial crime IS black on white. Ever notice how the newspaper doesnt include in description of perps that the perp was a black man or a hispanic? Two reasons, they usually are, and they usually are.

It's not PC to admit that white people are frequently the victims of minorities but when u r doing a threat assesment u had better take it into account.

Hey, I think I read the same websites as you. The ones with the yellow text on the beige backgrounds, the dubious findings backed up by unsupported claims. Yeah, those. I'd like to see a REAL statistical study backing up that number. Seeing as there are a LOT more white people to commit crimes against in this country than there are black people to commit crimes against, some kind of skew is indeed likely. I think that concluding that, therefore, black men are more dangerous than white men is ridiculous. The very large majority of criminals in this country is white, despite arrest statistics. After all, there are a lot more white people. Not a racist? Of course you're a racist, if you're part of a system that lets you believe that someone's skin color makes them inherently more threatening than someone else, that racial profiling is a reliable way to tell criminals from innocents, and a system that lets you honestly believe that you, the one with the power of the institution on your side, are being persecuted against when you are told that racial profiling is unacceptable and inaccurate. Maybe you don't think like a racist, but you (and anyone else here who is white in the United States, including me) are part of a racist system. The solution is to try and change your attitudes, not boast about them.

I think commuting safety is about your attitude as much as about what you carry. Thinking that you need to watch out for a bunch of black guys will blind to the many more dangerous white guys out there. Carrying pepper spray can make you feel more powerful and safe than it actually makes you. By all means, carry it - dogs can run FAST, and if they won't listen to a "STOP!" or other loud verbal command, then there isn't much else you can do. I myself have never had a problem with dogs, but I don't have extensive commuting experience yet.

Safety against people, however, has a lot more to do with your attitude and posture. Not looking like a target is the biggest thing. That doesn't mean not stopping at lights - not stopping at lights because you're worried about being a target is considerably more dangerous, in my opinion, than stopping. Fear makes you a target, not lack of speed.

And you know, if I were black and hanging out with my friends and I saw some white jerk on his bike give us a wide berth just because we were black - I think I would WANT to beat him up. Maybe it's better to think about unintended consequences of not giving people the respect (and the benefit of the doubt) that they deserve than to worry about the color of someone's skin versus your own.

Good words, qrolby. Except you were too kind to kurremkarm, who clearly is a racist--and proud of it. Is he also a moron? Who knows? I'm not sure if he meant "I am not a racist moron" (referring to himself) or if he meant "I am not a racist comma moron" (referring to me). One of us is a moron and the other is not, but the punctuation is so poor that we can't tell which is which.

At any rate, I've pretty much decided against the pepper spray. I talked to a security analyst I know. He asked how I got out of threatening situations in the past, and I said I pretty much talked my way out. He said that seemed to be working for me and I should continue to use my "people skills."

Pepper spray is nasty stuff. My ex used to carry a can on her key chain. Her nephew, (16 or 17 yrs. old at the time) thought it was breath spray. He gave himself a blast in the mouth. He was one hurtin kid. Dumb too. I've been tear gassed. Really unpleasent. Pepper spray is supposed to be far worse.

OK, please keep it within the forum guidelines. In case you have forgotten those, click on the question mark in the upper right corner of this window. Thank you.

--J

Fine, forget i said the word black. Frankly it's not PC to admit that there is black on white violent crime. Forgive me. When that young man knocks on your door at 3 am and says there was a wreck and u have this gut instinct that he is up to no good. Don't listen to it, let him in so ur not a racist. When u see a large group of angry looking young men coming towards u, don't cross the street, or else u might be a racist.

After all it is much better not to offend someone than to be a victim.

As for statistics-- yeah minorities get the short end sometimes, they have real problems but it also makes some of them angry. They direct that anger at those who oppress them, this is not called racism. Some of them then commit crimes by telling themselves that those who they commit crimes against deserve it anyway.

Where in any of my posts have i broken the forum guidelines? We are discussing the dangers that face cyclists on the real city streets. Yay 1st amendment, yay whatever implied rights to free speech i got when i joined this forum a year ago.

Yay! Nowhere on any of my posts do i lose the right to speak my mind, it is actually quite on topic, and deadly good advice that might save ur life.

The prison demographics and the FBI crime rates by race are facts not opinions.

kurremkarm, I was not referring to you in particular but to the general tone, name-calling and lack of respect in this thread lately. All of those are against guidelines.

But while we're on the subject: you might want to consider using "you" insted of "u". That, too, is in the guidelines .

--J

Cheers

You do not have to hate to survive. If attacked by human or dog, defend yourself. But do not provoke attacks with a hostile or surly attitude. And do not use skin color to predetermine someone's dangerousness. End of sermon.

Actually, when I was younger, I had been the victim of road rage assaults while riding my road bicylcle. Several times. And each time the attacker was white. BTW, I am white. BTW, I'm not PC. Just ask DnvrFox.(ha ha)

Sorry Juha, I should have never even posted it.

i sat beside an RCMP on a flight over the holidays. and he was sprayed point-blank in the face with pepper spray as part of training, then had to get to his radio and call for back up. he said it was the single most horrible event he has ever experienced. his eyes involuntarily rolled back in his head and he had to force his lids open with his fingers to see his radio.

I was sprayed directly in the face as a part of training,and it is nasty. Don't want to do it again.However, it doesn't cause pernament injury, and an hour later most people will be just fine. But if you are being attacked, and used properly, it will be an attacker down, even if they are under the influence. And I have used it on dogs with success.

Actually its not true that it won't cause permanent injury. Most of the time it won't cause permanent injury but there are recorded cases of these sorts of weapons aggravating respriratory problems to the point of death.

They're not non-lethal, they are less lethal.

That's the best thing I've ever read.

Oh for christ's sake. Can we put the race question to bed for tonight? I find it highly unlikely that a bunch of losers with nothing better to do than post to Bike Forums when they're on the job are going to resolve the question about the correlation between ethnicity and crime. Just get over it and go wag somewhere else.

As for pepper spray you may need a permit to carry it as well where you live and it may be no more or less legal to carry concealed than a firearm.