Does anyone have a KHS Green (a.k.a. Manhattan Green) in the men's black 17"?

From the photos it looks like there might be a potential for "toe overlap" (foot hitting the front wheel when turning).

Thanks

What size bike? I'm 5'7" and my two road bikes both have tow overlap. It's not uncommon in smaller sized bikes. I don't remember if the hybrid has tow overlap or not and I've removed the clipless pedals. I've learned to live with it. I expect hybrids to be less likely to have toe overlap because of the general tendency for longer frame length.

It's the KHS Green in particular I'm wondering about:

https://www.khsbicycles.com/09_green_m_blk_12.htm
https://www.khsbicycles.com/Images/Ge...-geo-green.jpg

I know toe overlap is common... which is why I'm making sure the bikes I'm looking at don't have it.

I've never had a bike with no toe overlap. You will probably need to test ride bikes if you need to find one with no overlap.

I test rode a Kona Dew a few years back that was a size too small. Worst toe overlap that I've ever experienced. I do agree the OP should take one for a spin to find out for himself.

Yeah the KHS Green is out of stock currently so I can't test ride. I was hoping to find out if I should scratch it off the list instead of the waiting.

I'm really surprised no one here has one. Supposedly a top selling bike. Should be on everyone's list for (shorter, flatter) commutes.

My problem is I want a really upright, Dutch riding position, AND no toe overlap. On a men's American bike for sale today. (Hey and can I get a fully-enclosed chainguard there guys? No.)

Here we're getting quite upright -- and the toes are looking tight:

https://www.khsbicycles.com/09_green_m_blk_12.htm

Here we've got plenty of toe room but you'll definitely be leaning forward:

https://www.raleighusa.com/bikes/hybr...c-roadster-12/

If you have all the geometry info (including the fork), you should be able to get a pretty good idea by doing the math. I was pretty unhappy with the TCO on my 56cm Cross Check (since fixed, after switching to shorter cranks & toe clips) and put together a simple spreadsheet to calculate TCO for any combination of crank, chainstay, wheelbase, and BB drop dimensions. I'd plug the Green's specs in, but can't quickly find them.

Thanks. The geometry's here, but lacks wheelbase and cranks so probably not helpful:

https://www.khsbicycles.com/Images/Ge...-geo-green.jpg

Almost double the price of the Green, but have you checked out the Felt Verza Regency? Steel, 3spd IGH, fenders, full coverage chain guard... https://www.feltbicycles.com/USA/2012...ency-Mens.aspx

From the picture it doesn't look that bad to me. All my bikes have some toe overlap with fenders on. It's not at all a problem unless it's a pretty substantial overlap. Generally, toes only hit the wheel/fender during slow, fairly sharp turns. Other times, the wheel just isn't turned enough to get near the toes.

Since it comes with the fenders, I kind of doubt they would design the bike with much overlap. (it's not like someone is adding something the manufacturer didn't intend). Of course, I've been wrong before....

Unfortunately the smallest size is a "large" (too big for me) -- a common plague with real men's Dutch bikes.

Also I'm not sure how upright it really is -- they have the seat all the way up as high as the handlebars, but I think they're just doing that (with their hard little seat) in the photo to look like an aggressive "fixie" so some American male would actually buy their otherwise mature, tasteful, and calm bicycle.

The lugging looks very nice.

And definitely has much more toe clearance than the Green. And the fully-enclosed chain guard.

The competition (that also only comes in "large"): https://www.dutchie-bikes.com/dutchie-dapper.html

The Green was rumoredly designed at the request of a bike shop in Boston -- and Boston is wicked into tight geometry with toe overlap.

If you compare the Green to the Felt Dutch bike (above) you'll see a world of difference.

I know many people accept toe overlap. I may have to. But not without trying to avoid it first.

Has toe overlap ever been a real problem for you?

no, it is an either or, ... you don't turn the wheel much at speed ,
when slow , turn with outside pedal at 6:00.

really no overlap problem at all with smaller wheel bikes..

Don't build up a fixie on a bike with TCO. just don't do it.

With a coaster brake getting the pedals anywhere particular is a challenge. With a city bike there are slower-speed situations where you may need to brake and swerve sharply away from cars and pedestrians that have materialized in front of you, and just not having toe overlap in the equation is preferable.

I have the Green and it has a bit of a toe overlap problem, but it's never been a real problem for me. Probably because the handle bars are so curved that you never turn quite enough to the side that it would become an issue.

Thanks. I have one on the way to my LBS to check out finally, so I'll see if it annoys me.

How do you like your Green in general -- any other issues?