Using headphones is like not wearing a helmet.

If you wished to insult me, you failed.
That "old press release" comes directly from you state's DOT. Just because you're too stuck on the fact that I have yet to find legal precedent in Iowa's code (they do a terrible job of making it easy to find information by the way) doesn't make wearing headphones particularly intelligent. Of course I could stoop to your level and bring up the old joke about the acronym for your state, but I'm not going to.

If it is actually a danger, it's not unreasonable to expect that there is some evidence to support it. Show us. 'I'm sure there is somewhere' is not a compelling argument.


Next ride, pay close attention to the cars passing. Using hearing alone, exactly how accurately can you pinpoint the lateral position of a passing car? It's bloody difficult. I prefer not to rely on such ambiguous information. If you're so concerned about passing traffic hitting you, and there's little evidence to support this being a major danger in the first place, get a mirror. It's a thousand times more usefull than your hearing.

In moderate traffic, you're not going to hear an individual car until it's too late to do anything anyway. In heavy traffic individual cars are lost in the general hubbub of traffic and wind noise. I've tested this. I've checked to see just how close a car gets to me before I can hear it, and I've gotta say it's pretty close (less than 50m). Between first hearing it and it passing you've got maybe a second or two to determine if it's going to hit you and take evasive action if necessary. My hearing's not that accurate. I prefer to SEE them coming, and I can see them coming WAY WAY before I hear them.

But that's all moot. Like I said, being hit from behind is such an exceedingly rare occurrence that it's not worth worrying that much about, unless you can't hold a straight line or don't shoulder check when changing lanes (and I hope you don't rely only on your hearing whilst doing that.)

I've actually been hit from behind. I wasn't wearing headphones at the time. I even had the extra benefit that the driver hit his brakes hard before hitting me, which is a big audible clue that something's amiss, but there was simply no time to react. It's simply so uncommon that I didn't even make the connection between the sound and the idea that I was going to be hit until it was too late. Fortunately I was relatively unhurt.


If it's a fact, there'll be proof. Put up or shut up. I've got ten years worth of riding with headphones without incident in heavy traffic that says you're full of ****. This isn't to say I never crash, I do. It's just never been attributable to a lack of hearing.


Talk about a contrived argument. How often does this actually happen? Never to me. If a child did ever dart out in front of me, my only chance of avoiding them is by SEEING them. By the time they make a 'startled yelp' if they even do, it's too late. Besides, you shouldn't need to look over your shoulder for cars if you can hear them eh?


Strawman. Inability to hold a line has absolutely nothing to do with hearing. I don't need an audible signal from another cyclist when I'm riding any more than I do from another driver when I'm in a car. As long as you hold your line and LOOK before changing direction, leave worring about passing safely to the one doing the passing. If you can't hold a line, I suggest you practice until you can before entering traffic again.


Oh please. How is this 'all about ourselves'? I'm not the one trying to tell people what to do here. But in my experience, which is extensive, there is no additional risk involved in riding with headphones if you are a safe and competent rider. If you aren't then you're at risk whether you listen to music or not.

Your so called argument is based on nothing more than faulty assumptions, contrived situations and emotional blackmail. In other words nothing more than a desire to tell people what to do, as if your opinion is worth anything.

On the other hand, those that say it's not dangerous base their statement on actual riding expereince over an extended period of time. And not one of them is trying to convince others to wear headphones. They are merely describing their experience, and where necessary arguing against the faulty notion that it's dangerous. See the difference?

Without any experience, or even any evidence scientific or otherwise, you should never have even touched keyboard on this subject. You're no better than non-cyclists trying to tell us how dangerous it is to ride in traffic and we should be on the path. Oh wait, sounds like you do ride on the path. You bought that furphey to did you?

Ultimately it comes down to choice. Some like music whilst riding, some don't, and that's fine. Make your choice and be happy. But don't try and tell me it's dangerous. It isn't. Laws banning headphones on bikes are on the same level as laws that try and force riders off the road, and the exact same arguments are often used in both cases. I support freedom of choice on this matter. If the government does want to promote the idea that it's dangerous then let them do it as 'safety advice' rather than making it law. This, incidentally, is exactly what they do here in Australia.

Your arguement is flawed. Earwraps don't play music.
[i]I haven't lived in FL my entire life, so don't even try that arguement.I ride in moderate to heavy traffic on a regular basis. I have tried riding in areas that are extremely familiar to me with a set of headphones on at a level that would allow me to hear the radio station clearly, yet not loud enough to pose any pronounced danger to my hearing.
While I'm no scientist I did notice that my reaction to outside stimuli (ie cars) was marginally delayed and rather less smooth and predictable than it would be under the same conditions had I been able to hear what was going on around me.
I even tried it with the volume off the results were better, but not as good as with my ears uncovered.
As the general rule of thumb for a (to borrow a term) Vehicular Cyclist is to operate in a safe, consistent, and predictable manner (heck that's actually written into the bike laws of several states) I can see how the wearing of headphones would certainly be counterproductive to those ends.
I stand by my earlier assessment headphones + bicycle + traffic = bad news.
There are plenty of bar mounted radios (my favorite being this one) that will allow you to listen to whatever you want without interfering with being able to hear in a spatial sense

Probably because "they" are not that concerned with the ease of research for out-of-state pedants seeking non-existing information.

Keep up your research to prove your conjuring; if you find something useful, share it with the other anal-retentive types who care to obsess on, and pontificate about their collection of theories based on fabricated/obscure legal and safety "facts".

It is obvious you are no scientist! Not even close to a wannabe Dr. Science. Just a Bull Stuff Kicker/Tosser.

How did you identify/measure/record the "outside stimuli," the alleged "marginal delay" and the loss of smoothness and predictability?

What a load of stuff.

Admittedly, I have read every post for the entertainment value of banter. But after 4 pages I just don't see the point. Let's agree to disagree or this will be another post similar to "vehicular cyclist”, which never ends!

No...

Using headphones impedes prevention of an accident, while wearing a helmet does nothing to prevent an accident.

And that wouldn't be your 6th sense keeps you safe, it would be your 5th sense (since your sense of hearing is gone)

The importance of your sense of hearing diminishes as your experience and biking skills improve. It also varies depending on the characteristics of your commute.

Every biker has to make an indivdual evaluation and proceed from there. I've decided that music adds ZERO RISK to my commute and I'm confident with that decision.

So I'm going to rock on, and I don't give a damn what some safety-nazi lawmaker buried in the bowels of government says about it. Biking is about freedom.

I hate the fun police and safety Nazis too. I think I have enough common sense to know when and when not to listen to music. Writing laws to protect the stupid from themselves, or from hearing and seeing things you don't want to see is just another example of the erosion of personal freedoms I grew up with.

Ironically both serious accidents I was in were caused by some form of government negligence. Hitting a storm grate that was installed wrong caused by a broken tooth. Plowing into a car that was left on a blind curve before being impounded caused me a nice road rash and the car- a brand new BMW - a shattered back window. (loosely the government's fault, the driver was taken in for a DWI,)

Libertarians, please chill out.... practically no one gets busted for listening to tunes while riding.

I haven't had a portable music device since my big yellow sony walkman of the early 1990s. But I can say that most of the time I cant hear anything behind me anyways. Winter anti-frostbite ear coverage makes me fairly deaf, and most of the time in the summer there is enough air noise that I can only hear vehicles behind me with a good tailwind. I just have to look back more often.

Would an I-pod-type-thing make me less aware of what was going on. Probably. But if anyone here gets run-over because of an I-pod, it will probably be the one worn by the driver in the tint-window SUV.

I won't be supplying any peer-reviewed journal articles to back up that assertion.

You are right.

Nobody in California pays attention to immigration laws either. But I've seen cops go out of their way to bust kids that don't wear helmets for the quarter mile (or less) ride home from school.

To me the acid test of your true belief would be whether you'd be OK allowing your child to listen to music with headphones while riding a bicycle into unknown and unpredictable traffic situations. If you're OK with that, I wouldn't argue safety with you. I also might agree that adding a mirror could possibly increase your safety more than headphones would decrease it. Hopefully we're arguing whether it is a significant risk, or a negligible one -- and there's room for debate there. But someone saying it makes no difference at all -- can't be thinking straight.

And wouldn't the worst case be wearing those Bose noise-cancelling jobs??

You bet! There are few absolutes in this world. The world is grey. I may be not in favor of riding with headphones, but ultimately, it should be up to the individual.

WTF? I ride in some fairly heavy traffic. I certainly wouldn't let my kids ride where I do, not yet anyway. Does that mean I shouldn't ride there? Of course it doesn't. We don't base our traffic rules on what children are capable of do we? This is a stupid argument.

As for the level of risk. I'd say it falls well within the bounds of acceptable risk. It's really a minor issue, as evidenced by the fact that the worst effect anyone has come up with so far is a marginal delay in reaction time, and even if that was the case, I'd suggest that this disappears with practice.

I never said it makes no difference. It makes the ride more enjoyable - I don't have to listen to traffic noise (ain't no sounds of nature on my commute). I don't get startled by yobbos shouting at me as they pass, and my headphones keep my ears warm and block some wind noise. As for being in more danger, or less aware of what the traffic is doing - can't say I've experienced anything like that.

My kids were not allowed to wear headphones when riding until they turned 16 , and even then, they were told to keep the volume down.

And yes, wearing noise cancelling headphones while riding is a good way to thin the herd.

Allister,

great post. Could you imagine the world we would live in if every experience was allowed only if it was safe for a child? I'm sure many are fighting for this, hopefully common sense will prevail.

Try again. This law refers to hearing protection devices. Such as the mickey mouse ear protection you see people wearing near airplanes or the type of earplugs you push into your ears.

It does not apply to radio or music headphones.

Chris

Have you ever been above 25mph on your bike?

Riding partner with a helmet cam.
Any more silly questions?
Or do you just want to try to insult me further?
Question: Have you collected all 50 of your local "Cop Cards"? If not you'd better hustle on down and get the ones you're missing.

enough has been said, thread closed.