I know this has been asked before, but my searches have come up with nothing.

When pulling up to a red light that already has cars stopped at it, should you:

a) Stop behind the last car in line
b) Pull up to the front of the line, and stay far right so that when the light turns green, you are out of the way of the cars and headed for the bike lane on the other side of the intersection.
c) Other...

B seems to me to feel the safest and feels like I am causing less of an "inconvenience" to the folks on the road. Although, I do sometimes wonder if drivers are mad because a slower bike is going to the front of the lane, even though it does not slow them down once the light changes.

It depends. Every intersection is different. Do what is safest based on your own evaluation of the situation.

First, I don't get to ride in bike lanes, I ride on the street with the cars.

That being said I will pay attention to the cars at the front of the line, if they are turning right I will hang out behind them, unless I can safely make it to the front, then I pull far enough up so they see me, but I'm not in the way of them turning.

If I can find room I will pull on on the turning vehicles left, so they can turn and I can go straight.

I am very cautious around any vehicle I suspect may turn right into me. But also be aware some of the damn idiots just leave there blinker on, or they have it on because they're turning right, after they pass the intersection as well.

Use your best judgment.

If you are at the (rare) intersection where you don't have a bike lane before the light, and have a bike lane after the light, option B seems reasonable.

If you are at the (I expect) more common intersection where you have a bike lane before and after the light, then you should stop behind the cars turning right (which, in California, are supposed to be occupying the bike lane).

If you are on a road with NO bike lane, then you should stop at the end of the line. Otherwise, you are just passing everyone on the R (never a bright idea) so that they can pass you on the L once the light turns green (which makes NO sense to me). Your arrival at the destination won't be affected (assuming you make the light).

- JP

I go through 3 or 4 very high traffic intersections a day, with a lot of cars turning right. If it's not rush hour, I'll just get in line and go straight through in the lane with the traffic. But at rush hour, drivers aren't paying any attention, so a lot of times I'll go up on the sidewalk, punch the walk button, and use the pedestrian lanes to cross. I see a lot of bike riders around Austin doing the same at these high-traffic intersections.

There's one particularly bad intersection where I'll go in the pedestrian crosswalks opposite the flow of traffic for much higher visibility both for myself and the cars that are turning.

I'm probably a bit different than most though - I'm usually not in a hurry at all when I'm on my bike, so I put safety and visibility first when I'm on the road.

Usually, I pull right up to the front, place my right foot on the curb, and wait for all those vehicles turning right to make their turns. If things look too congested, with too many vehicles, then I just do what Andy does below:


The problem with pulling up behind the last car in the line of traffic, is the fact that most drivers take exception to a slower vehicle (like a bicycle) being located directly in front of them. I'd rather just let the vehicles pass as I either stay to the right, or cycle in the bike lane.

I always let drivers know that though I'm NOT in competition with them, I do demand an equal share of the road...

Usually, strong hand signals and direct eye-contact can communicate these things.

I usually am in a hurry but I don't find that pulling to the front of a line of cars and trying to jump in front of them helps make me any faster. Like you said, it makes no sense to me to get passed by the same group of cars over and over again. I stop at the end of the line and hope that I'm the last vehicle through the intersection. That's the sweet spot! The cars in front of you clear out quickly and you don't have cars behind you. Open road, baby!

I'm not a fan of bike lanes that are continuous through intersections, either. Too often, cars turn across those lanes without signaling. They are right hooks waiting to happen.

If an intersection has lots of traffic, I still get in behind the last car in line. However, the next time I have to go through that intersection, I find another intersection with less traffic. There are just too many parallel routes in the world to spend time jousting with traffic.

Like caloso said, every situation is different. If there is lots of space on the right, I go up to the front. If the right lane is a turn lane, I split the lanes and go up to the front. If the road is one of those "cars have to re-pass" you again and again type roads, I hang back or find an alternate route.

This is the takeaway of nearly every thread in this forum. I'll just point out that this thread is but one example of how poorly that works in practice. We are all over the map as to what is "best", and our outlier accident and fatality rankings, relative to other First World Countries, underscores just how this 'live and let live" culture affects us in real terms. Even more sad, is the reality that many peoples "best judgment", tells them that riding a bicycle in traffic, period, is insanity, and they neither do it, or allow their spouses or dependents to adopt the practice.

I recall that the last time I saw this particular topic on here (not that long ago), it was accompanied by a photo of a bike sitting in a long (really long) line of traffic waiting to turn left at a controlled intersection. I mentioned that in such a scenario I would filter to the front of the line. This was met with much hostility and claims that doing so in such and such locale would result in the cyclist being shot by at least one of the drivers waiting in line. Well... that may be the road culture in some cities in America, but not all. I don't know... some of the most backwater places I've known recognize that a bicycle 8 cars back from a light is NEVER going to make it through before the turn arrow times out. THAT is what would get you shot around here. If you were to keep the cars behind you from making a light that they could easily make, given the fact that the least of them has no less than 90 horsepower under the hood.

In that picture the bike was (no kidding) about 20 cars back from the intersection, and that was going to take multiple light cycles for even all the cars to make it through. At least they would quickly make up the lost time once through. The bike would arrive at its destination 10 minutes later than a cyclist who had filtered right to the front of traffic in the first place. Not a safety issue, an issue of practicality and common sense. Who am I. I've never understood martyrdom. Common sense rules my sense of "best judgment". The city of Portland where I have moved to, paints big green boxes in the road for bicycles to wait in at the head of the line of traffic at controlled intersections around town. This is tacit encouragement to cyclists to filter to the front of the line to wait in the green boxes for the green arrow. Smarter people than me have decided that this is a safe and efficient way to get bicycles through controlled intersections. If doing otherwise would really get you assaulted or even shot at... maybe vehicular cycling is inadvisable in your particular locale. Myself, I would move away to somewhere more bike friendly. Just saying.

H

I really hate to break it to you (and Andy) but both you and he are wrong. If you want to test the valitity of a hypothesis extrapolate out to the ridiculous extreme... would you... could you, access the pedestrian walk button riding a tandem? A touring bike with loaded front and rear panniers? Pulling a loaded trailer? You can't have it both ways. If you are already in the road, the best practice would be to stay there. And it would NEVER be permissible to salmon against traffic in the pedestrian crosswalk for the opposite side of the street. ???What? What possible benefit could there be to that? SMH. How these concepts manage to make sense to somebody and get adopted as a valid way to do things is really beyond my ken. And wth is a 'strong' hand signal? The only strong hand signal I know of conveys nothing about directional or procedural intent and only ones personal emotional state in the moment. Effective, maybe... efficient? I think not.

H

P.S. Here's how to do it right: Either, pull to the front as you do, and take the first opportunity to pull through that is offered. I mean... by filtering to the front isn't that what you wanted, that's what drivers will assume... in most civilized places anyway. OR, stop a car length short of the intersection, to make it clear to right turning traffic that you are not turning right and want them to go ahead and be on their merry way.

Been commuting for well over forty years, sir...

Works for me!

classic question asked multiple times throughout the year. depends on the intersection. I recently experimented with a new sportcam producing some of the most boring video of my life. but I did take sections of my old commute including kill zones and certain traffic light intersections. I did it in my car and narrated the clips. really boring stuff, but there might be a clip that's worth posting into this thread.

edit: after reviewing, 1st my videos are not useful cuz they were done from a car dash, so they don't show the bike perspective, including when to wait in line and when to filter. will have to redo from a bike.

Situational, even the same intersection on different days.

The one thing I always try to avoid is related to the OP option B, when there's plenty of room crossing the intersection but the road narrows - and no bike lane. I can't be off to the right out of the way letting cars pass me in that situation. Too often, there will be some guy really pushing to make that far side first, and the drivers behind will follow like sheep, leaving you cut off on the side. And they're like as not accelerating, while you had to slow down waiting for a gap. So when I do filter to the front, and the far side narrows, it's take the lane. Fortunately if you can get quick start, the jump on the cars can get you halfway across before some of them get untracked.

On certain intersections, for no rational reason the drivers tend to let it gap in front of them, 3 or 4 car lengths before moving. I have no idea why they do that on the one intersection but behave normally on others, but it results in 4 or 5 cars getting through green while the vehicles stacked up behind them gun it to make the cycle. I don't like to be in the middle of that, after I've waited in line. Every once in awhile I'll gun it myself while the one or two cars ahead of me are doing whatever it is they do while waiting and get in that gap ahead of them. I'm not sure if that's safer than proceeding normally, going through the stale green or yellow with cars behind me rushing to catch it also. Or just filter in the first place.

It depends on the situation. In general I am extremely cautious about passing to the right of motor vehicles. The photos posted by [MENTION=106798]10 Wheels[/MENTION] above are very illustrative of different situations, and I agree with all of them in those situations.

There are instances when I will filter up to the right of cars waiting at a red light, usually in this situation there is a bike lane. One very important aspect of bike lanes that many cyclists, and even fewer motorists, know why, is that they go from a solid white line to a dashed white line 100-200 ft before an intersection. This is to allow changing lanes. Cars turning right are to move over into the bike lane transition zone so bikes can move over to their left.

When pulling up to a light in this situation, I always pull far enough to the left to allow cars coming from behind to turn right without having to cross in front of me.

It seems to be situational - I ride mostly on low-volume roads so I usually just wait behind cars since I know I'll be able to get through the light.

wphamilton mentioned a scenario that I come across on my way home where the road narrows after the intersection and a section of curb/gutter starts as well. In that scenario, I would 100% wait my turn and take the lane even if it did take me a while since it would be dangerous to try and bike alongside a car after the intersection especially if there's nowhere for you to go with the curb and gutter and the cars have nowhere to pass you since there are left turn lanes in the opposite direction.

Go to the front, especially when you are riding on congested city streets, where a bike is the fastest mode of transportation. I would never wait in a traffic jam.

a. who mentioned anything about a tandem bike? And why would you do a commuter ride through busy traffic on a tandem, unless you were both highly skilled already?
b. I'm in Austin, not Portland like you. Going on and off sidewalks is a necessity for serious bike commutes in this town. So to say, "if you are already in the road" isn't valid - a lot of time there is NO road for bikes - zero shoulder and only narrow lanes of fast moving cars. I and most commuter bicyclists in this town spend a good deal of time on sidewalks, grass, and plowing through gravel.
c. No one is talking about "salmoning against traffic in a crosswalk", and I'm not about to diagram it out for you. But, safe to say, there is such a thing in this town as a "WALK" light at most major intersections, which normally does not try to walk pedestrian or bike traffic directly into oncoming cars.

Where I stop depends on the traffic flow patterns. On an intersection with common right turns, I will stop in the lane, leaving enough space for right-turns. Frequently, this means pulling forward until my front wheel is in the cross-walk.

I will lane split ONLY when I'm sure I can get to the front BEFORE the light changes. Riding past a line of cars on a questionable light asking to get hooked.

The law states that you riding a bike are a vehicle, so you must stop at all red lights & stop signs unless otherwise specified by signage or road markings. That means that turning right, you may proceed when you have the right of way. But you gotta look behind you & to your left for larger & faster vehicles that may attempt to overtake you while turning. That is not legal, but many do it anyways, as you are technically not allowed to overtake or change lanes on a single lane through an intersection. Turning left is the same thing, they must give you room to make the turn & not attempt to overtake till you have completed the turn & there is enough clearance. Going straight ahead they must give you room (in PA it is 3 feet), so technically you can go before the vehicle to your left.

Many drivers are completely clueess about this stuff & may drive agressively thinking they will "teach you a lesson". Call the cops & give them the vehicle information & licence plate number. The driver could be charged with any number of offenses ranging from reckless driving to attempted assault with a motor vehicle. This is the sad state of things in many places unfortunately.

Simply stated, if there is room, stop at the line, if there is not, keep behind vehicle in front of you, and stay visible to them if possible. If you cannot be visible, give a car length space.

This list of rights & rules has kept me safe for many years & opened up routes that would otherwise not be possible.

- Andy

I should add, that if you do not follow the law you could be given a ticket as well. Do your homework & figure out what your rights are as a cyclist, and make that the foundation for how you ride & where you stop & when you go. That way you'll know you're in the right & can set an example.

- Andy

According to the police officer who pulled me over the legal answer, at least in Pennsylvania, is a).

California doesn't have any 3 foot law, so I guess we're on our own.

You'd be surprised how many cops don't know that cyclists are allowed to stop at the front on the right side of lane. It's safest there, because we can get moving before everyone else vs try to keep up with vehicle in front of us & keep vehicles behind us from being stuck behind us unable to overtake, especially larger vehicles that take up more of the lane & have large blind spots. Local police here will go after anyone they see violating this regardless of the vehicle in question.

https://www.dmv.state.pa.us/pdotforms.../chapter_5.pdf

Upon further review it is 4 feet, not 3!

May use any portion of the lane to avoid hazard. I think stopping at the line so not getting run over trying to keep up with traffic ahead of you falls under the umbrella of "avoid hazard".

And you see what i meant about reporting drivers that cut you off turning or try to force you off road.

- Andy

I can find nothing in Pennsylvania bicycle law that states what you have said. There is nothing that specifically says that bicycles are allowed to filter to the front of the line in the PA statues. Your bicycle laws start with this statement:

And your state law says this about passing on the right of traffic:

There are other provisions in PA state law that is spelled out specifically for bicycles, like the 4 foot rule, but filtering is not spelled out. Your state laws actually prohibit lane splitting.

Your logic is faulty on being at the front of the line as being the safest place to be. I question your idea that bicycle can get moving quicker than anyone else. We are low powered vehicle. Even the lowest powered car has much more power than a bicycle does. We might be faster getting off the line than an 80,000 lb truck but they are going to overtake us very quickly. Anything lighter is going to be much faster pulling away from the light.

Because of this slower acceleration, a bicycle purposefully moving to the front of the line sets exactly the situation you detail. Every vehicle in the line has to overtake the bicycle. So, instead of preventing the situation you suggest preventing, you've created the situation you want to prevent.