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Old 08-20-14 | 09:56 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott
That's quaint, but the "left hand up for a right turn" signal needs to die already.
It has in Colorado. From Colorado state law

Except as otherwise provided in this subsection (9), every person riding a bicycle or electrical assisted bicycle shall signal the intention to turn or stop in accordance with section 42-4-903; except that a person riding a bicycle or electrical assisted bicycle may signal a right turn with the right arm extended horizontally
You don't have to use your right arm but you look goofy if you do

Originally Posted by TransitBiker
Arrows in lanes at most intersections should take the mystery out of where i am going, though some drivers still think if i'm in a turn lane i'm going straight.. Left turns are made from left side of lane, and right turns do not cross anything, negating need for signaling in most cases.

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The problem is that many people move over into the turn lane...usually right...and then do go straight.

Originally Posted by jyl
Right arm/right turn is intuitive, most drivers will understand, if they are paying attention at all.

Left arm/right turn is an anachronism, fewer drivers will understand it each year.
Not only is the left arm/right turn signal anachronistic, if you really look at someone who does it, it throws them off when they corner. Their body position is all wrong and they go into the corner unbalanced.
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Old 08-20-14 | 10:05 AM
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but motorcyclists can't signal with their right hands because they need them on the throttle all the time. We cyclists are not constrained in that way.

I've been signaling most of my turns with my head lately. Whatever works. This is where I use the law as a guideline, not as an absolute rule. I follow the spirit of the law more than the letter of the law here.
[MENTION=364898]Insidious C.[/MENTION], I don't follow. Why does turning in left in front of you indicate he understood? You're in North America, right? If you're turning right and he's turning left, he should have waited for you, no?
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Old 08-20-14 | 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Insidious C.
Today something really unusual occurred on my evening commute. Approaching an intersection I signaled for a right turn using my left arm, old school. That's not unusual, I always signal turns. What was unusual was the oncoming driver signaling to go left actually understood and made his turn without waiting for me. I wonder if drivers are hesitant to trust cyclists or if hand signals are just not understood anymore? Does this happen to you as well?
I wonder why you use a method of signaling which you recognize as being rarely understood by anyone but yourself. Why do you bother to make cryptic signals at all?

Same question applies to those bicyclists who make obscure hand signals for stopping to motorists? Why bother?
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Old 08-20-14 | 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott
That's quaint, but the "left hand up for a right turn" signal needs to die already.
Well, for cars it's still useful. Yes, I have occasionally used hand signals from a car. Most recently while towing a trailer with defective lights.
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Old 08-20-14 | 11:42 AM
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Sticking my right arm out for a right turn is much more readily understood, so that's what I do. I do have the occasional driver misinterpreting my left-turn signal for a "it's okay to pass me" signal, but those are pretty rare.

As far as if they still teach hand signals, it's still in the driver's manual here in PA.
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Old 08-20-14 | 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by spivonious
Sticking my right arm out for a right turn is much more readily understood, so that's what I do.
I did that early this morning - I was coming up on a trail intersection where I needed to make a right, and there were other cycllists coming up the other trail. I signaled out of courtesy so that they would know what my intentions were...
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Old 08-20-14 | 03:27 PM
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I find that any time I use hand signals the drivers around me understand and trust it. Furthermore, the hand down for stopping keeps them from trying to pass me right before a stop sign.
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Old 08-20-14 | 03:31 PM
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They are still in the drivers handbook for my province, and it says...

"If your signal lights are not working then you may use the appropriate hand signal"

(illustration of left, right, slow/stop all done with left arm)
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Old 08-20-14 | 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott
You'd be free to use whichever arm is more convenient -- I use whichever one needs a break from holding onto the handlebars. Unless you're riding no-hands, priority would go to signalling, of course.
So... you believe the average motorist isn't smart enough to know the laws and proper way to signal or interpret a legal signal. BUT... you you think the average person has great enough psychic powers to know when a cyclist is resting an arm, waving, or signaling. I just don't think people are as psychic as you believe they are.

But... then again... if YOU'RE really, really psychic... you'd know better.
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Old 08-20-14 | 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by mgw4jc
I like to just do the head pointing, kind of bobbing it toward the direction I'm going as if I'm subtly trying to tell someone to leave a room. Drivers either get it, think I'm challenging them to a race or think I'm trying to get water out of my ear. Either way, they generally wait for me as they wonder, "What is that guy's problem?"
I use my arms if it's totally safe. Other times I do as you say and find it well understood. Or maybe as you say, I'm just confusing them into wanting to stay clear of another crazy cyclist.
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Old 08-20-14 | 04:15 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by gerald_g
They are still in the drivers handbook for my province, and it says...

"If your signal lights are not working then you may use the appropriate hand signal"

(illustration of left, right, slow/stop all done with left arm)
For drivers it makes sense because they cannot reach their right arm through the car to signal.
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Old 08-20-14 | 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Cutter
So... you believe the average motorist isn't smart enough to know the laws and proper way to signal or interpret a legal signal. BUT... you you think the average person has great enough psychic powers to know when a cyclist is resting an arm, waving, or signaling. I just don't think people are as psychic as you believe they are.

But... then again... if YOU'RE really, really psychic... you'd know better.
No clue where you're getting all that. Pointing LEFT with one's LEFT arm and pointing RIGHT with one's RIGHT arm are pretty unambiguous signals, so they should be the standard rather than the archaic signals passed down through the generations in this country. You're the one who wants to confuse the issue with waving or "saluting" or other things, not me.

To be honest, I don't really care what the considerations for motorcycles or cars with burned-out signals are. This is a bicycle forum, and I'm not dealing with those limitations when riding a bike.
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Old 08-20-14 | 04:33 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by NickA
When I took my road test for my driver's license, I had to use hand signals on some of my turns. That was in the 80's. I don't think they even teach them anymore.
Originally Posted by jyl
Right arm/right turn is intuitive, most drivers will understand, if they are paying attention at all.

Left arm/right turn is an anachronism, fewer drivers will understand it each year.
The only drivers that know what hand signals mean would know how to operate a rotary phone.

Kid these days don't think that a roll down window has any use except at drive-thru windows.
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Old 08-20-14 | 08:15 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by spivonious
Sticking my right arm out for a right turn is much more readily understood, so that's what I do. I do have the occasional driver misinterpreting my left-turn signal for a "it's okay to pass me" signal, but those are pretty rare.

As far as if they still teach hand signals, it's still in the driver's manual here in PA.
Sure, they still have it in the manual, but how much time can pass between briefly passing it by in the manual to actually ever seeing it on the road? I was 16 and got my license in 1988. I had never seen anyone use hand signals until probably 2-3 years ago when I was following a coworker who was riding an old Harley without turn signals. I'll admit, at 16 I was just like all the other 16 year olds as well as all the 16 year olds from then to now that I was just a punk kid wanting just to pass the tests and get my license over actually learning anything.

I remember the hand signals more from learning to ride a motorcycle as an adult and wanting to learn as much as I could about safety rather than getting my government approval to operate a motorcycle. In fact, I never did get that motorcycle license.
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Old 08-20-14 | 08:53 PM
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This reminds me of an interaction a month ago or so.

A guy on a scooter was following me while I was on my bicycle heading to the train station. I made a few turns in front of him, using hand signals, him going the same route. We came to an intersection where I was turning left and he was going straight. He stopped next to me, said, "Sweet old school style with the hand signals." and fist bumped me...

I still don't understand how hand signals are "old school." I, by the way, am 28 so it isn't like I'm old or anything.
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Old 08-20-14 | 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by noglider
@Insidious C., I don't follow. Why does turning in left in front of you indicate he understood? You're in North America, right? If you're turning right and he's turning left, he should have waited for you, no?
I signaled early and was approaching with a lot of speed. It takes time to slow down and make a right turn- enough to allow the oncoming vehicle to safely make his turn first. Also there was two lanes plus bike lane so no competition for lane.
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Old 08-20-14 | 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Insidious C.
It takes time to slow down and make a right turn-
I don't really have that problem.

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Old 08-21-14 | 10:05 AM
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Originally Posted by gregjones
I don't really have that problem.

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Old 08-21-14 | 10:30 AM
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While in France we saw a new way to signal right that we liked.
Take your left hand and raise it directly over your head and point to the right making an arc and repeat it back and forth once or twice.
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Old 08-21-14 | 11:38 AM
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I use traditional left arm signals, when I'm able to, around traffic.

People generally get it...50% seem to know and the other 50% tend to just yield a bit, trying to figure out what I'm doing, then they learn it on the spot.

The challenge is trying to execute signals at speed on sharp corners.

Last edited by Marc40a; 08-21-14 at 11:41 AM.
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Old 08-21-14 | 12:00 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Marc40a
I use traditional left arm signals, when I'm able to, around traffic.

People generally get it...50% seem to know and the other 50% tend to just yield a bit, trying to figure out what I'm doing, then they learn it on the spot.

The challenge is trying to execute signals at speed on sharp corners.
As an LCI, we teach our students to signal 100 feet before their turn, but also get both hands on the bars before beginning the turn.
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Old 08-21-14 | 12:21 PM
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That's a good idea. I'll try to implement it on the way home tonight.
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Old 08-21-14 | 12:42 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by MMACH 5
As an LCI, we teach our students to signal 100 feet before their turn, but also get both hands on the bars before beginning the turn.
I teach people to turn their heads back while keeping a straight course. It is one of my main signaling techniques. I can do it, but I find I have to practice it constantly. The skill wears off quickly, so I need practice to keep it.
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Old 08-21-14 | 01:40 PM
  #49  
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Signals before the intersection not as you are turning is what I was taught. What I tend to do is use both types of signals. I feel it lets those around me know better, even if it just piques their awareness through multiple motions, also I change hands as I need to scrub speed for tight right hand turns.

If I am in traffic I will ride in the left of the lane so I can see all traffic, so they will see my left arm, not my right arm.

I always have both hands on the bar for turns, so I suspected whomever is worried about hand off while turning signaling is doing it wrong.
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Old 08-21-14 | 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Insidious C.
What was unusual was the oncoming driver signaling to go left actually understood and made his turn without waiting for me.
I've mostly given up on signalling right hand turns since drivers just wait anyway. If it is of no use to them I'd rather have two hands on the handlebar going into a turn. More often then not when I signal a right turn, left turning drivers take it as an invitation to cut me off.
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