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Light. Lots and lots of light.

Old 12-16-08, 06:02 PM
  #26  
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anyone make a nice quick release mount. I was looking at garmin's rail mount for my gps and thinking I might ask them it=f its made by someone else for them to see if I can get those parts and drill and tap a light to be able to connect to one.
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Old 12-16-08, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Hickeydog View Post
Just thought I'd share my lighting set-up:
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Old 12-16-08, 11:39 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by 10 Wheels View Post
40 Lux would be about how many Lumen's?
Thanks



http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?ID=2692
Depends on the distance from the lamp and the area that the light is spread over. Lux is equal to lumens/ sq. meter. Not a real good conversion available without knowing the area illuminated and distance from the bulb. And the Lux number would be different for different systems. For example the lux would be different for a 12 degree spot than for a 24 degree flood (halogen). LED would be different too.

Here's information on the lux of MR16 bulbs at nominal voltage for comparison. For a 20 W MR16 at 12V the lux at 30 cm (12") is 20,600. For a 35W MR16, the lux is 33,500. The 35W MR16 at 12V puts out a little less light then a 20W MR16 at 14.4V. However those numbers are for 38 degree bulbs which is a very wide angle flood. Narrow spots (12 degrees) would have more lumens per square meter but would cover less area.
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Old 12-16-08, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by mrbubbles View Post
My point is, people buying LED is an investment in the technology for further advancement. What advancement are you getting when you pay for a $2 halogen bulb? If you aren't willing to jump on the bandwagon, let others do.
I have no problem with people jumping on whatever bandwagon they want. However, I like people to be informed also. Let's face it, unless you are willing to pay $1100 for a Lupine Betty, no commercial system can even come close to my DIY system for output. Few DIY systems can get that kind of output. If the goal is to have as much light as possible to keep from getting squished and doing it for less than you pay for the bike, then halogen is still hard to beat. Can I think of one situation where less light is an advantage? Nope. Not a single one.

And let's face it, bicycle lighting isn't driving much of any kind of market. Lamp development is being aimed at other, more lucrative markets. We are a fringe. We just happen to benefit...occassionally...from other people's investment.
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Old 12-17-08, 01:07 AM
  #30  
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If your lights blind oncoming traffic and cause other vehicles to crash, that's a disadvantage. If your lights cause you to be pulled over by the police, that's a disadvantage. I don't believe 4000 lumens are necessarily problematic, but I can think of plenty of scenarios in which significantly exceeding the output of vehicles around you could produce negative results for you or others around you. Even at a much smaller level, there are certain situations where I don't run my P7 at night. Almost all of these situations have to do with not wanting to stand out (at least until passing certain areas).
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Old 12-17-08, 07:10 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Depends on the distance from the lamp and the area that the light is spread over. Lux is equal to lumens/ sq. meter. Not a real good conversion available without knowing the area illuminated and distance from the bulb. And the Lux number would be different for different systems. For example the lux would be different for a 12 degree spot than for a 24 degree flood (halogen). LED would be different too.

Here's information on the lux of MR16 bulbs at nominal voltage for comparison. For a 20 W MR16 at 12V the lux at 30 cm (12") is 20,600. For a 35W MR16, the lux is 33,500. The 35W MR16 at 12V puts out a little less light then a 20W MR16 at 14.4V. However those numbers are for 38 degree bulbs which is a very wide angle flood. Narrow spots (12 degrees) would have more lumens per square meter but would cover less area.
Thank you for your help. I had a friend give me this 17 Lux version of the same light.
I use it in the day time. Has a 6 hr bright run time, 8 hr low run time.
Is easy to recharge and people tell me That Light is Bright.

Here is the 17 Lux at Night. The car just happened to come down the street when I was taking the pic.

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Old 12-17-08, 09:52 AM
  #32  
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^ Very impressive picture, 10 wheels.
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Old 12-17-08, 12:05 PM
  #33  
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Thanks for the info.

That's a bright light 10 wheels! And you should easily do 20k miles since the only hill you have is the Kemah bridge (j/k).

However, I believe there is already 200 watt LED technology. It must be true if I read it on the interweb. Especially since it was in a pot growers forum..... Yes that's right, they can't wait to grow ganja with it.

The things you find with google.
200,000 Lumen LED
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Old 12-17-08, 01:17 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Overvolting reduces the amperage draw. Amps = watts/volt. A 10 W bulb at 12V draws 0.8 A while the same bulb at 14.4 V draws 0.7A and puts out twice as much light.

I'll agree that for weight LEDs are king. For lumens...not so much. Per unit halogen still put out more light...or can be forced to put out more. Halogens...the ***** of the lighting world
Ummmm, no. Light bulbs don't have a constant wattage regardless of voltage. If anything they have a constant resistance. Voltage = Amps * Ohms. So if you increase the voltage, you'll increase the current (and also increase the wattage, which is why they get brighter). If a 10W bulb at 12V draws .8A, then it's got a resistance of 15 ohms, and the same bulb at 14.4V would draw .96A. It would now be using 13.8W, so I doubt it would really be putting out twice as much light.

That assumes the resistance is the same, but it might change a little because the lamp would be running hotter. But it's probably fairly close.

Keith
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Old 12-17-08, 02:10 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by khearn View Post
Ummmm, no. Light bulbs don't have a constant wattage regardless of voltage. If anything they have a constant resistance. Voltage = Amps * Ohms. So if you increase the voltage, you'll increase the current (and also increase the wattage, which is why they get brighter). If a 10W bulb at 12V draws .8A, then it's got a resistance of 15 ohms, and the same bulb at 14.4V would draw .96A. It would now be using 13.8W, so I doubt it would really be putting out twice as much light.

That assumes the resistance is the same, but it might change a little because the lamp would be running hotter. But it's probably fairly close.

Keith
You are right. I forgot about the wattage change. But it's not as great a magnitude as you have. Nor is the amperage draw. For a 10 W bulb at 12 V, the current is 0.8A. Overvolted by 20% to 14.4V, the current is 0.9. Hardly enough to "eat" the batteries. The wattage goes from 10 W to 12.4W.

The real gain is in the heat of the filament. Hotter filament, more light, less life. Here's a GE sheet on halogens. Look on page 8 for the lumen output. At 20% overvoltage the lumen output goes up 185%
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Old 12-17-08, 02:20 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by uke View Post
If your lights blind oncoming traffic and cause other vehicles to crash, that's a disadvantage. If your lights cause you to be pulled over by the police, that's a disadvantage. I don't believe 4000 lumens are necessarily problematic, but I can think of plenty of scenarios in which significantly exceeding the output of vehicles around you could produce negative results for you or others around you. Even at a much smaller level, there are certain situations where I don't run my P7 at night. Almost all of these situations have to do with not wanting to stand out (at least until passing certain areas).
Cars typically run 55 W halogens. That's roughly 1500 lumens per lamp and they have 2...sometimes 4 with driving/fog lamps. I have one more then most and one less then a few. My lamps aren't too much higher than a sedan's lights and are lower than a SUV's lights. I also ride near or to the right of the right wheel track of vehicles. Since most cars have the right side light set higher, I'm not that much different from a car without the driver's headlamp. I doubt, highly, that my lights will blind oncoming traffic any more than a typical car would.

As for riding in dicey areas without light, that's not for me. I run them on full with the helmet light. If people think you are a car, they are less likely to jump out and grab you. If they do try anything funny, 1500 lumens of light in their face will blind them long enough for me to get away from them.

But, from a practical standpoint, I'm not worried about people. I worry more about the cars.
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Old 12-17-08, 02:40 PM
  #37  
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I wasn't talking about your lights specifically; my point was that it is possible for too much light to be a disadvantage. It sounds like you've got a good setup and have thought your lights out well.
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Old 12-17-08, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by uke View Post
I wasn't talking about your lights specifically; my point was that it is possible for too much light to be a disadvantage. It sounds like you've got a good setup and have thought your lights out well.
Since we cyclist tend to ride in a similar road placement to what I ride...at least the ones who still have a 3rd dimension...I feel that the "you might blind the motorist" argument doesn't hold much water. Most people don't have the fire power I have and I feel that they'd be hard pressed to do more blinding then I can.

There are situations where blinding a motorist is not only helpful but necessary. A helmet mounted light swept across the eyes (if necessary) can go a long way towards stopping those beast. I would never advocate doing it on a whim but there are times...even for me I know that they are going to have a blue dot in the middle of their vision to remind them for a while

However, in normal urban lighting conditions, having more light makes you stand out against a rather light crowded background. More is always better, in my opinion.
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Old 12-18-08, 01:28 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Cars typically run 55 W halogens. That's roughly 1500 lumens per lamp and they have 2...sometimes 4 with driving/fog lamps. I have one more then most and one less then a few. My lamps aren't too much higher than a sedan's lights and are lower than a SUV's lights.
The biggest difference between your lights and the ones on a car are that car lights have a horizontal cuttoff and so they focus the light onto the ground rather than in a circular pattern which can impare other drivers.

Plus its illegal to operate a directional light on a motor vehicle (like the ones police cars used to have on the A-pillars) as far as I know it most states. Your 1500 lummen helmet light, as you stated, is the rough equivelant of a car headlight,... which you can and have pointed at motorists.

I have some family members who have had eye surgery which produce halos around lights. Driving at night where bright lights are involved produce multiple halos in their vision. Shining a light at them may produce your intended result of them stopping, but it may confuse them as well since they may not be able to pinpoint your location because of the intensity of the light.

You are knowledgeable for sure, dispense your knowlege freely and are open to helping others which is GREAT..... but your delivery often comes off as boastful when you post you lumen output.

For sure, I would like brighter lights, and am a bit envious of your output...... but to put it another way.....

One of my best friends does really well for himself. He has a Lamborghini Gallardo which he bought new.... but when people ask him what he drives, he says a Honda Pilot. (Because he has one of those too). Just becuase he has the Lambo, does not mean he always has to SAY he has it.
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Old 12-18-08, 09:19 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Hirohsima View Post
The biggest difference between your lights and the ones on a car are that car lights have a horizontal cuttoff and so they focus the light onto the ground rather than in a circular pattern which can impare other drivers.
I have been through many, many light configurations and I assure you that I know all of their limitations and their benefits. Car lamps may have cutoffs to focus the light on the ground but those are hardly perfect. Why do you think that there is glare from any automobile headlight coming at you? You may be able to see the cutoff when you pull up to your garage but if you move back a few meters, the light from the bottom part of the reflector goes upward. That stray light is what creates the glare you see.

As for the round reflector, don't assume that I have my lights aimed flat and level. My lights are targeted to shine on the road approximately 10 meters ahead. I want to bulk of my light hitting the ground to illuminate the road and not spraying off into the dark.

I've already made the point of lane position but I'll reiterate. We cyclists travel outside of the right wheel track. You'd have to have a very wide angle reflector or very, very poorly angled lights to shine glare into the eyes of a on-coming motorist. A very wide angle reflector or poorly angled lights do nothing for illuminating the road and, if the point is to illuminate the road, why would anyone ride with that setup?

Originally Posted by Hirohsima View Post
Plus its illegal to operate a directional light on a motor vehicle (like the ones police cars used to have on the A-pillars) as far as I know it most states. Your 1500 lummen helmet light, as you stated, is the rough equivelant of a car headlight,... which you can and have pointed at motorists.
I do not, nor have I ever, flashed my helmet light across someone's face gratuitously. The few times I have to result to that tactic is only when a car fails to yield in situations where they should yield. Left turners who fail to see me (not something that happens often now), people turning right on red, people pulling out for stop signs, etc. For those incidences, I only do a real short sweep aiming for their dash (I can see where the light goes and can target it with great precision) to get their attention.

Some times people may even see me and proceed anyway. Those people get the full face effect because a bit of a blue dot in their vision is better than me laying on the pavement under their car. But I only do that as a last resort.

Originally Posted by Hirohsima View Post
I have some family members who have had eye surgery which produce halos around lights. Driving at night where bright lights are involved produce multiple halos in their vision. Shining a light at them may produce your intended result of them stopping, but it may confuse them as well since they may not be able to pinpoint your location because of the intensity of the light.
Again, I don't shine my light at cars coming at me. Only in situations where they haven't yielded the right of way properly and my safety is at risk. Additionally, if you see multiple halos from bright lights that can confuse you at night, you probably have no business driving a car at night. I have restrictions on my drivers license that require me to wear corrective lenses for driving. If I don't wear them, I don't drive. People who can't see at night properly should have the same restrictions.

Originally Posted by Hirohsima View Post
You are knowledgeable for sure, dispense your knowlege freely and are open to helping others which is GREAT..... but your delivery often comes off as boastful when you post you lumen output.

For sure, I would like brighter lights, and am a bit envious of your output...... but to put it another way.....

One of my best friends does really well for himself. He has a Lamborghini Gallardo which he bought new.... but when people ask him what he drives, he says a Honda Pilot. (Because he has one of those too). Just becuase he has the Lambo, does not mean he always has to SAY he has it.
Everyone here boasts of how bright their lights are. Hickeydog did it, 10 Wheels did it, mrbubbles did it with this quote

You are not overboard at all. Light geeks aren't impressed. Some of us own single system that has more than double the output you have on your entire bar, those are blinding at 50 feet. It isn't really bright unless you are cranking out at least 900 lumens (you have no more than 300).

Here's what a 900+ lumen setup look like.
mrbubbles (and others) have even implied that since I run halogen (Oh, the Horrors! An old technology! Shield the Children!), I should basically sit down, shut up and keep my opinions to myself. I see lots of people boasting about how bright their 200 lumen LEDs are and I do, for the most part, keep my opinions to myself. Frankly, I think 200 lm is pretty poor for lighting and is about where I was 20 years ago with 5 W Cateye HL500 lights and RC car batteries. 15 years ago I was able to get more 3 times that light out of lamps with MR11. Today I get nearly 8 times that out of one bulb. Why should I be proud of what I've been able to do. It's not like it's hard to do nor am I the first one to do it. I just seem to be one of the last ones who see the value...even with the light's limitations.
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Old 12-18-08, 09:55 AM
  #41  
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Stu, sit down, shut up and keep your opinions to yourself...




or not.
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Old 12-18-08, 12:25 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by chipcom View Post
Stu, sit down, shut up and keep your opinions to yourself...




or not.
You can keep em coming for me. The few lighting upgrades I've made may be like slightly bigger globs of spit in the ocean, but I've made them with knowledge obtained here. And if I could manage to replace the memory of Chip's avatars with more lighting pictures.......
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Old 12-18-08, 01:41 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by chipcom View Post
Stu, sit down, shut up and keep your opinions to yourself...




or not.
You wanna a piece of this bub



After he gets done with me

But at least the chicks would have sympathy on me...ya big bully
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Old 12-18-08, 02:20 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Car lamps may have cutoffs to focus the light on the ground but those are hardly perfect. Why do you think that there is glare from any automobile headlight coming at you?
The lights on my MDX is a mix of projectors and multi-reflector fogs. Both have HID's in them. I can see a sharp cuttoff on my lights 200+ yards away. I drive down the freeway and can see a horizontal beam pattern reflected on the sound barriers to the right of the car.

Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
As for the round reflector, don't assume that I have my lights aimed flat and level. My lights are targeted to shine on the road approximately 10 meters ahead. I want to bulk of my light hitting the ground to illuminate the road and not spraying off into the dark.
I was not making that assumption as you posted a beamshot of your setup. I can see the trees 30 feet above you, lit up. My car lights would have area pitch black.


Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
I do not, nor have I ever, flashed my helmet light across someone's face gratuitously. But I only do that as a last resort.
Noted. I was just saying its illegal for motor vehicles to have them because it can impare others, possibly causing an accident that may not involve you, but still may harm others. I agree with you,... I would rather them hit another car than me, so on that point I think I understand/agree with your position.

Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Everyone here boasts of how bright their lights are. Hickeydog did it, 10 Wheels did it, mrbubbles did it...
I think Yogi Berra said, "It ain't bragging if you can do it." While this may be true, it makes it no less annoying.

Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
mrbubbles (and others) have even implied that since I run halogen (Oh, the Horrors! An old technology! Shield the Children!), I should basically sit down, shut up and keep my opinions to myself.
I by no means think you should keep your mouth shut. Quite the opposite, you tend to give great information, detailed and helpful responses, and are a true help to others on this sub-forum. I was merely commenting on the nature and tone of some of your posts. For the most part, you replies back are thoughtful and intelegent which is more than I can say for most internet forums I frequent.
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Old 12-18-08, 06:10 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Hirohsima View Post
The lights on my MDX is a mix of projectors and multi-reflector fogs. Both have HID's in them. I can see a sharp cuttoff on my lights 200+ yards away. I drive down the freeway and can see a horizontal beam pattern reflected on the sound barriers to the right of the car.
An MDX with HID lights is hardly standard automobile lighting. Most cars don't have the light projection system that your car does. For those the cutoff is much more nebulous. Nor are they as bright.

Originally Posted by Hirohsima View Post
I was not making that assumption as you posted a beamshot of your setup. I can see the trees 30 feet above you, lit up. My car lights would have area pitch black.
Don't be fooled by the photography. That was a 6 sec exposure at f5.6. That gathers much more light then you would see while riding down the road. I suspect that the light spray from even your MDX would show up after 6 sec exposure.



This movie shows a more normal view of the same tree. Outside of the main beam of my lights is pretty dark.

Originally Posted by Hirohsima View Post
Noted. I was just saying its illegal for motor vehicles to have them because it can impare others, possibly causing an accident that may not involve you, but still may harm others. I agree with you,... I would rather them hit another car than me, so on that point I think I understand/agree with your position.

I by no means think you should keep your mouth shut. Quite the opposite, you tend to give great information, detailed and helpful responses, and are a true help to others on this sub-forum. I was merely commenting on the nature and tone of some of your posts. For the most part, you replies back are thoughtful and intelegent which is more than I can say for most internet forums I frequent.
I'm probably boasting too much. But, hey, he started it I know that doesn't fly but sometimes it just feels so good I'll try to mend my ways...a little...but I still want people to know what's out there and what it does...and does not do.
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Old 01-07-09, 06:26 PM
  #46  
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How far away is that dead body?
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Old 01-07-09, 10:31 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Overvolting reduces the amperage draw. Amps = watts/volt. A 10 W bulb at 12V draws 0.8 A while the same bulb at 14.4 V draws 0.7A and puts out twice as much light.
Amps = watts/volts = volts / resistanse. Resistance does not change with voltage. 12V 0.8A will draw 0.96A at 14.4V, or 13.8W.
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Old 01-08-09, 12:16 AM
  #48  
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OP, I think you should get one or two nice lights like a P7 instead of wasting your time changing out the batteries on so many low power lights.

cyccocommute, do you happen to have a guide for how you made your lighting system?
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Old 01-08-09, 12:45 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by CTAC View Post
Amps = watts/volts = volts / resistanse. Resistance does not change with voltage. 12V 0.8A will draw 0.96A at 14.4V, or 13.8W.
Higher voltage means hotter filament meaning more light.
The filament resistance goes up with temperature, so it does change with voltage.

While I think this thread should be titled "lights. Lots and lots of lights." having multiple lights is good for visibility, but having them spaced out makes good sense, I wouldn't put them all in middle of the bars.
http://world.honda.com/ASV/motorcycle/
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Old 01-08-09, 01:23 AM
  #50  
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I have overvolted haogen bulbs they do work well but they eat batteries and you ahve to carry large battery packs around. I was running a 20w halogen overvolted to 16v. worked pretty well. better then my trail tek HID but I don't think ti was any better then my better aimed dinetto otte 600l and it weighed 4 times as much and needed 2 8 cell battery packs.
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