doctor j

Seems like I've read that it's illegal in many jurisdictions for us to ride on the sidewalk. The side walk and MUPS are not my favorite places to ride. We have several MUPs in the area, and I will use them only to avoid very busy major arteries. Sidewalks are a very last resort option.

Tail lights: 3 PB Superflash for practical reasons. My after-work rides in the winter are after dark.
Age: 61 years old, hopefully, in a couple of weeks.
Been hit? No. Couple of close calls, both my fault.
Ride on sidewalks? Only as a last resort. You give up your rights on a sidewalk. Have too much fun on good asphalt. There are no sidewalks out in the countryside where the riding, flora, and fauna are superb.

ItsJustMe

Yeah, as doctor j says, there IS no sidewalk on most of my ride. 2 inches of shoulder, a foot of gravel, and a ditch full of unmowed grass and sticks and the occasional beer can. So it just doesn't come up for me. I do now recall riding on a sidewalk a year or two ago; the road was ripped up and impassable, but the sidewalk was open, so I rode at about 5 MPH down that block on the sidewalk before getting back onto the street.

ed 

Okay you've got me pretty convinced. I am pretty regarding the guy that said the sidewalk is too rough though. I guess it's hard for a mountain biker to understand.



If you don't mind me shifting the thread just a tad. I've been experimenting in building headlamps lately. What is the "ultimate" bicycle tail light?

Size
Weight
Brightness

I know that you can't have a tail light the size of a peanut that's a bright as the sun, but practically speaking...

ItsJustMe

Ultimate is probably the Dinotte 200R. It's about $200, 400 lumens (actually a little less). The Dinottes have a very distinctive and probably just about perfect for cycling set of flash modes. I don't think you could get those flash modes out of a standard flashlight controller.

The 200R is really two 140Rs in one housing. I personally think the 140R is about enough for almost any use, and it's what I have. I have the 140L actually, the version that takes standard AA rechargables, which sells for about $100.

All of these use external battery packs. If you use Dinotte front and back you can share a pack with the headlight.

Magicshine is rumored to be working on a taillight too, but we haven't seen it yet.

PaulRivers

Well, in my opinion the ultimate tail light -
1. Has a steady mode, or blinking pattern. The more amount of time the tail light is on in the blinking pattern the better (as long as it's clearly still blinking), I'd guess 2/3rds on, 1/3rd off would be the best. Some people seem to think a weird obnoxious pattern is best - I prefer not to be obnoxious. But what I think is actually dangerous is the patterns where the light turns off for a while - someone happens to look over during that time and misses seeing your light. My dinotte has a mode light that if I remember right, I don't use it.
2. Has a large range of brightness adjustability - between like a Planet Bike Tail Light and a Dinotte 140L. Problem with the 140L is actually that you can't dim it enough for another biker biking behind you. Doesn't blind cars at the same setting though (I tested it, at least on low at least), but it definitely ticks off bikers behind me (which I don't want to do, they're usually people I'm biking with).
3. Is bright enough to be noticed, but doesn't blind drivers behind you (doesn't put 500 lumens directly in their face). In my experience, "blinding" is a function of the brightness AND the intensity of the light source. A small, tiny light source with 200 lumens is far far more blinding than a spread out light source with 200 lumens. Usually this is done with tail lights by using multiple led's.
4. I like my tail light to have a reflector built in, so it's brighter if there's a car behind me, and has some chance to bee seen if I forget to turn it on or it does or someting. Like the Planet Bike Rack Blinky -


5. I don't actually trust a single tail light, either. Problem is - if it goes out (battery does, wiring malfunctions, bulb goes out, etc) cars behind you can't see you, AND you don't even know it's out! (because it's behind you). So I always run 2 of them.
6. Since I'm running 2 of them, I've always thought that the bikes that were the easiest to see were ones where the rider had one steady light and one blinking light, so I try to put them together as close as possible. Other people disagree and feel that an obnoxious blinking pattern makes cars give you more space when they pass so it's better. I don't want to way in strongly one way or the other, I prefer to not risk being obnoxious but I haven't really made up my mind yet, and I don't bike on really busy roads.
7. The ideal tail light would probably be self contained (batteries attached to light), take AA's, and you just plug in a charger (without taking it off the bike) to charge it.

On my road bike I run a Planet Bike Tail Light, blinking, right above a Dinotte 200L on steady, low -


Now you asked about the "ULTIMATE!" tail light. :-) In reality, I think the Dinotte 140L is overkill for riding anything below about 50mph on highway shoulders (which some people do do), or for having a blinking tail light for daytime riding (less necessary, but I can see why people like doing it). If I didn't need either of those things (which honestly I don't know that I ever do, I just got carried away, lol) 2 Planet Bike Blinkies on the back would be more than adequate.

Brontide

1. No
2. 35
3. In our family we have 4 or 5 bicycle vs motor vehicle accidents, none at night and probably would not have made a difference if they were lit.
4. "risking your life and the lives of the idiots who don't see us until it's too late" - BS, Sidewalks are several fold more accident prone. It's street or bicycle lane for me.

Doohickie

1. Is your thirst for the ultimate tail light sort of a geek hobby like mine regarding headlights?

I don't have a thirst for the ultimate tail light. In my case it's more of what provides the best bang for my buck. In economical tail lights, the Planet Bike Superflash is the standard that other tail lights are compared to. The point, though, is for riders that use the roads want to be seen and identified as moving relatively slowly by motorists.

2. How old are you?

47

3. Have you been struck by a car and are somewhat paranoid?

No and no.

4. (this one is important to me) When there's a perfectly good sidewalk / paved path paralleling the street...why do you stay on the street in the way of traffic, risking your life and the lives of the idiots who don't see us until it's too late so they slam on the brakes and get rear-ended by a delivery truck? I just don't see the bother in hitting the sidewalk when I've been told by officers: "Sure...it's the 'law' to ride on the street...but you cause less problems when you ride on the sidewalk, so we'd prefer to have you ride there."

When using a sidewalk, there is a relationship that is like this: motorist : cyclist :: cyclist : pedestrian. In other words, in a relative sense, bicycles are the cars of the sidewalks - we move much more quickly than a pedestrian and if a cyclist strikes a pedestrian, the pedestrian is more likely to be more seriously injured.

Even without pedestrian involvement, sidewalks tend to be less-than-optimal for transportation cycling - going from point A to point B over a distance of 5, 10, 20 miles. Sidewalks are generally more uneven than roads which beats a cyclist and the bicycle up. Sidewalks often have more debris than the road. And if you are riding in an area where there are numerous driveways or streets, every one is an opportunity for a car to cut across your path without seeing you. When people say that sidewalks are more dangerous than streets, it is the fact that cars frequently cross sidewalks, along with the fact that sidewalks have unpredictable pedestrians, that make sidewalks dangerous. Additionally, some states and localities specifically forbid cyclists from using sidewalks.

With just a little reading and a little experience, it becomes apparent to most cyclists that riding on the road is usually the better choice for getting from point A to point B. If a cyclist rides on the shoulder, on the sidewalk, or to the extreme right side of the lane, he or she is generally not regarded as significant by motorists. The danger from right hooks and left crosses is greater, and if riding on the right side of the lane or even on the shoulder, a driver won't generally pay much attention to a cyclist, which can result in passing too closely.

Riding in a more assertive position in the lane makes drivers take notice of the cyclist and makes the passing of the cyclist a high priority task for a motorist. The cyclist is not in the background, it is a high priority for the driver. If the drier sees you, he won't hit you. Cyclists get hit when a driver doesn't assign a high level of attention to the cyclist.

All that said, I still tend to stick with neighborhood streets rather than major roads. On my 17 mile commute, probably 90% or more is on neighborhood streets, lightly traveled through streets or bike trails, and usually when I ride on major roads, it's to get around an obstacle like a railroad track or river. If I have to I will ride in the lane on a major road. I also pick a few spots around down where I will avoid the road and ride the sidewalk (usually in the case of bridges over a river or train track where sight lines are affected by the hill).

I would guess that if I rode on sidewalks, my travel time would be 25%-75% greater than it is when I use the roads.

doctor j

A friend of mine has one of these. A while back, we met while riding in opposites directions. After a brief stop for conversation, we both went our separate ways. I could still see his tail light at 3/4 mile away, in bright daylight. Since I am somewhat frugal, I run the PB Superflash, two or three depending on which bike I'm riding, So far, no problems from behind. I run a MagicShine headlight. It's great.

ItsJustMe

The nice thing about the Dinotte is that it satisfies BOTH the flashing and the constant light. My favorite mode is constant low with about 2 flashes a second up to bright. So it's basically the same thing as a steady low light AND a flashing bright light. And its "low" is brighter than almost any other light's "high".

As for riding with others, it's easy - tip the light down a bit.

At night, I can look in my rear-view mirror, and see the street signs lit up behind me by the flashing Dinotte 140L for a good 1/2 mile behind me.

PaulRivers

You mean the low-high-low-high flash mode? I partially agree with you...I just hesitate to full agree because I haven't tried it out. ;-) Since I feel more comfortable running 2 rear lights anyways, I haven't had a reason to try it.


You might as well say that rather than wearing sunglasses, you could just tilt down the sun. :-P

But seriously, it was already tilted down at almost a 45 degree angle, between being very bright and coming from a tiny light source it's just still way to much for a bike behind you even on low. As I mentioned, for cars not a problem, but for bikers behind me it was different.


I don't doubt it. To be fair street signs are pretty reflective...no doubt it's a super bright light.

agarose2000

I think the tail-light might depend on the type of usage.

After seeing more than a few PBSFs in use around here at night, I can attest that it's UBER bright at night. Seriously, as long as your batts are not petered out, there is no way you can miss a PBSF unless your eyes are completely off the road. They are so incredibly obvious, even compared to adjacent cars.

If I commuted on hi-speed car road at night where all car traffic went 50+mph, I'd definitely consider a Dinotte, though. In those situations, you really want the absolute, farthest visualization you can get. In most other situations though, where cars are going up to 40mph, that's plenty of lead time to be seen. I do think a Dinotte is completely overkill in these situations, as the PBSF is so incredibly prominent at night. The Mars4.0 is what I use, and it's slightly brighter than a PBSF. I get lots of respect from cars coming from behind who see that blinker - they leave a lot of room, even during rush hour - a noticeable difference vs the daylight hrs where I have no blinker and they creep right up to my rear wheel.

preston811

PBSF is the gold standard for bang-for-the-buck, and I have one, but I gotta say too the Blackburn Mars 4.0 kinda bests it. My mom just got one for her bike and it was only $20 on amazon, though now I see it's up to $25. It's 1W vs 0.5 and it has better lateral visibility. The only downside is shorter run-time and it looks slightly less cool imo than the stealthy black+silver PBSF.

I also remember reading good things about the Portland Design Works Radbot 1000, it's also 1W and has a built-in reflector, but then some people were knocking its build quality. I dunno, never saw one.

ItsJustMe

I agree, and my commutes are on high speed roads. The other reason that the SF isn't really enough is if you ride in adverse conditions. When I'm riding on 60 MPH roads (or even 30 MPH roads) in heavy fog or heavy rain or snow, I wouldn't trust the SF, I want the Dinotte at my back.

Personally I think the SF, or even the cheap $3.54 DealExtreme light I reviewed over in Lighting, are more than enough at night in clear conditions, even on higher speed roads unless the traffic is also heavy, but I still prefer to have the Dinotte.

The Dinotte is also plenty visible in daylight - I've had people tell me that the light was the only reason they saw me when they were behind me and we were heading into the morning sun.

hopperja

My average speed is usually around 17 to 18.

Agreed, but probably all people!




Sorry, couldn't help it ;-)

hopperja

Seriously, I love my DiNotte 140R. However, the brand new Magic Shine tail light looks interesting...

And a point of clarification/fact about DiNotte: The 140R is 1- 140 lumen red LED; the 400R is 2- 140 lumen red LEDs. There is no 200R.

gitarzan

55. If something as cheap and simple and a blinky helps a driver see me it's worth it.

ItsJustMe

My bad, I didn't go out and look before posting.

BTW, what new MagicShine taillight? I haven't seen it, it's not up on Geoman. Have you seen it somewhere else? So far all we've had is a vague post from Geoman that he had a prototype in hand, and that it would use the same battery style as the MS headlight and so could be used with a Y cable. I've been hitting Geomangear.com 2 or 3 times a day all month, and nothing so far.

I obviously agree that it'll be worth looking at, but I'm not sure it qualifies as interesting yet.

Cyclist0383

There is a picture of it on MTBR. Post #21.

https://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=598340

tarwheel 

I'm 56 and I've never been hit by a car in nearly 40 years of cycling. I attribute my survival in part to one of my personal rules for road riding - make yourself as visible as possible. I subscribe to the belief that most drivers do not actually want to hit and kill us. They are merely distracted, clueless, careless, etc., most of the time.

To make myself more visible, I wear bright jerseys and a neon vest/jacket if the weather is cold enough. I also use a headlight and tail-light when commuting, even in daylight. I actually have 3 tail-lights - a Dinotte 140 and two Planet Bike Superflashes. The Dinotte is the workhorse, and the Superflashes more backups and redundancy.

I also ride on the road, seldom on sidewalks. As others have pointed out, riding on sidewalks is usually more dangerous than riding on the road. However, there are always exceptions to any rule, and I sometimes will ride on sidewalks for short stretches.