njkayaker

That makes sense.

Things keep changing but I still think it's:

Verizon > ATT >> anybody else.

I went with Verizon because the coverage is better generally than ATT but ATT is still very good.

Of course, there are odd gaps for Verizon and for ATT. But nothing is perfect and the coverage reports provide by the companies are optimistic.

For investigating what's possible, you want a decent phone (that is pleasant to use). You just might figure new things to play around with. I was thinking about getting a good inexpensive Android phone. I already have an iPhone 5 and a Nexus 7, so it's not something I need (I bought the Nexus to play around with Android).

And the G seemed like the best choice for that at the moment. And it's a phone that reviewers looked pretty closely at (and end up liking). Personally, I would avoid a less well-known phone (the amount of money that would be saved would be trivial.

The "second tier" providers and some of the MNVO tend to target metropolitan populations. They can be reasonable choices for people who mostly only use their phones there.

(I used my Verizon iPhone 5 in Germany as a cell-phone and as "wifi" only device.)

(wphamilton appears to have a higher tolerance for "funky" than I do.)

Rich Gibson 

I'm using a Samsung Galaxy S4. I added a drop in battery extender but it works for over 3 hours with the original battery. I have the Bontrager dual (S&C) sensor and the Mio Link wrist HRM. I have been using ipBike on the Galaxy for over 8 months now without a single problem. You can configure the screen to add/arrange just about every conceivable parameter. The Galaxy S3 requires a dongle for ANT+ but the S4 has it built in. Actually I ran the S4 today with ipBike, Radio365 music streaming and a metronome (I'm still new at cycling and the metronome keeps my reps up.) After a 3 hour ride today I still had plenty of battery left on the S4. ipBike will also handle a power meter or even calculate it.

Rich

01 CAt Man Do

I've been quietly following along reading all that is being said about Smart phones and the various compatibility vs. the different phone couriers. I will say I've learned a lot. I had no idea it was such a ball of wax.

I like what I'm seeing with the Consumer Cellular provider. For about $35 I could get something that could work for me if I decide to change plans. Thanks to all that was said by the others I now know that I won't be able to use my current phone if I choose to change phone couriers. Sadly if you got your phone from Verizon you're pretty much locked into Verizon ( from what I can tell ). Makes me wonder if there's a place you can send your phone to convert it over to your phone courier of choice without spending an arm or a leg. (?)

...which leads to another question; If I buy another phone using the same OS ( Android in my case ) is there an easy/fast way to transfer my information from the old phone to my new phone or do I have to load ( or buy ) the apps all over again one at a time? I suppose transferring the info to the new phone would create a problem though even if it were possible because the IP address of the new phone would change making it next to impossible to get updates ( for your previously paid for apps ).

@Spid cyclist...Sadly, if you really want to use one of the Pay-as-you-go plans you likely aren't going to be able to find a phone BTLE compatible unless you buy the phone from a dealer that will guarantee the compatibility of the phone to your phone courier of choice. Not that it can't be done but it will likely cost that arm or leg. Sad it is that all this is so complicated. Buying a wireless phone and moving it from provider to provider shouldn't be such a **** dance. Whatever happened to the concept of "universal compatibility"...geez, it's enough to make you puke.

njkayaker

The phones are tiny, highly integrated chips. You can't change them. But a few phones support multiple systems (the iPhone 5 supports CDMA and GSM).

01 CAt Man Do

I was reading on one of the links you provided that over in Europe phones can be bought that are universally compatible with almost any system. Yes the iphone5 supports both. Once again a great selling point but one that not too many people know about. While I did know that some phones could not be used with other providers I didn't know the reason why till I read some of those links.

My guess is that you might be able to buy an Android phone compatible with both systems but it will likely cost you and you might have to shop around to find one that meets all your needs. The local cell providers and phone dealers aren't going to tell you anything about it unless you start asking questions. Right now it's not a big issue because when I decide to change plans I'll likely shop for a better phone. Hopefully I'll find an Android phone that will work with both the Verizon and the AT&T system. I like Verizon but the pay-as-you-go plans that work with AT&T are so much cheaper. Like Spid cyclist I can see giving it a test run since it could end up saving me about $40 a month. I pay WAY too much for a two phone plan. I can't wait till my contract runs out.

Spld cyclist

Argh... paradigm shift!

As I was browsing Amazon for AT&T phones I came across this Nokia Lumia 520 windows phone: Amazon.com: Nokia Lumia 520 GoPhone (AT&T): Cell Phones & Accessories

Nokia Lumia 520 - Specifications - Nokia - USA

I'm thinking that this isn't really "the one" for me because it only has 512 MB of RAM, but everything else hardware-wise is excellent at this price ($54.99): 8 GB memory, dual-core processor, Bluetooth 4.0, 4G download speed, etc. It has a ton of good reviews on Amazon. I'm hesitating partly because I understand there are much fewer windows phone apps as compared to android or apple. I'm not sure what I would want is available. (I clicked on a few apps at windowsphone.com and none indicated that you can use HR and cadence/speed sensors). I also know next to nothing about windows phones in general, so I don't know if there are other pros and cons to consider.

Anyway, I wonder why the Nokia Lumia 520 offers so much more than the Samsung Galaxy Centura for half the price....

Edit: Checked Endomondo, and it doesn't currently support sensors for Windows phones.

JohnJ80

It's not the hardware, it's the software. Windows phones are sort of an artifact in the industry with tiny market share and declining:

Windows Phone share drops in world's largest markets and 'stutters' in Europe | Computerworld Blogs

As a result, developers of add on hardware and apps are not looking at Windows phones too hard.

J.

njkayaker

People like Windows for phones. But there's much, much more stuff available and supported on iOS (Apple) and Android. That's why no one mentioned it in this thread.

What you want to do is someone fringy (relatively few people are interested in doing it).

You are too worried about saving $100. People providing advice are not going to have much motivation spending time helping you save $100 (that's just not an interesting problem).

njkayaker

What you can buy in Europe is phones that "universally" work across multiple frequencies/back on the GSM system.

The CDMA system is mostly an odd US system. There isn't much reason to provide support for it in Europe. I'm not sure if there are any Android phones that support both CDMA and GSM.

Providing support for multiple systems could be cheaper for manufactures to provide (maybe, a little more expensive hardware costs but saving on inventory/manufacturing for fewer models). That approach might be more workable for more expensive phone.

I believe part of the complexity in the US was because cell-phone systems started here first and companies provided service on systems (use for trucking, for example) that already existed.

Other countries (like in Europe) set up systems after the technology matured and, so, have a simpler system. (Though, things are confusing even there.)

JohnJ80

It's been a while since I've been involved in this from an engineering perspective, but I believe the CDMA and GSM standards merge here at some point.

J.

Spld cyclist

No. I had already decided that wasn't the way to go. Just admiring Nokia for putting out a solid product that's a great value. You would think, given larger economies of scale, that an Android maker could do as well.

wphamilton

The Centura that you're comparing it to is overpriced for its specifications, in my opinion. I have it because it's adequate for my use, and because it works with Tracphone. $80 vs $55 for the Nokia, the $25 difference is not compelling enough to override other considerations although the better specs would definitely be something to consider.

Spld cyclist

As far as software goes, I can currently find only one Android cycling app that claims to be able to integrate a BTLE HR monitor AND BTLE speed/cadence sensors. That would be Ride With GPS, but they say offline map use is still in development. Endomondo currently allows a BTLE HR monitor and ANT+ speed/cadence. IpBike is currently set up for ANT+, although there is a beta version that works with BTLE.

This isn't a comprehensive search, though - maybe there's something else out there.

Assuming I have a decent phone, can I "multitask" using a gps app that works with offline maps and another app (like Ride With GPS) that works with BTLE sensors and combine the data afterword?

njkayaker

Many smartphone companies barely make a profit. They keep chasing "market share". Nokia/Microsoft may be subsidizing the phone to get traction for Windows.

The Google Nexus products were a good value because Google wasn't making a profit with them.

01 CAt Man Do

I was checking on just this very thing last night. Did a search and was coming up with multiple hits. This Samsung phone is just an example. According to the HSN ( home shopping network ) overview, the phone I linked to is "Unlocked" , CDMA and GSM compatible. If using GSM system you have to get the SIM card from your courier of choice. This particular phone has the ability to carry two GSM SIM cards.

Quote from the HSN overview:

njkayaker

That phone is GSM only.

HSN doesn't mention CDMA is the list if features at all. Other websites don't mention it either.

The HSN webpage text you quoted mentioning CDMA appears to be standard text applied to any unlocked phone the might sell.

https://www.phonearena.com/reviews/Sa...-Review_id3165

JohnJ80

Actually, the only ones making a profit are Apple and Samsung. Apple makes somewhere in the range of 2/3rds to 3/4ths of all of the profit of the cell phone manufacturers. Samsung makes around 29% or so. All the rest of them are pretty much losing money or at best breaking even.

What's going to be really interesting is when Samsung starts to assert itself with Google over Android. Without Samsung, the way it's going, it's going to be the tail wagging the dog. Be fun to watch Samsung and Google have at it. Without Samsung, Google/Android has an issue in terms of profitable hardware to run on (i.e. sustainable) for the long haul. Samsung has their own OS that they are rumored to be getting ready to push. Will be interesting to watch that all play out.

J.

njkayaker

Yes.

I know all that but didn't want to go into that detail.

Samsung also spends much more on advertising than Apple does. I don't think Samsung can drop Android (for Tizen) without a lot of risk.

JohnJ80

Probably true. Then it's going to be some really interesting meetings at Google about Android on Samsung phones. At that point, it's not clear who owns who on that one.

Being relatively agnostic on the software issue, I think this probably argues well for the iPhone developer ecosystem since they have control of the hardware and the software. It's part of the reason, at least I think, that the iPhone is so much farther ahead in the BT LE market. That's pretty important capabilities with respect to this discussion of phones as bike computers.

J.

01 CAt Man Do

That thought crossed my mind as well just before I posted. The wording on the "Overview" is indeed very misleading. Believe me I had my doubts but I found it hard to believe that the HSN could have included text designed to be so misleading.

That's one of the problems with internet searches. Even when you write exactly what you are looking for sometimes the links only contain part of what you wanted. PITA but what can you do but keep searching. Obvious the "overview" text was enough to throw off my Google search.

BTW I did find some compatible phones on some India and Taiwanese website but I'm not sure I would buy from one of those. I did find this HTC phone on Amazon that looks good but it doesn't list all the specs. Geez...you wouldn't think finding something like this would be so hard.

About the Samsung / Android issue: Samsung needs to stay with Android. The Google stuff is too nice to give up. Perhaps Samsung is just mad because the Android people are slow in getting out the newer updated OS that is compatible with things like BTLE. I have to admit, the iphones really seem to cater to the "wants" of the cycling crowd. As an Android user I'm trying to wait patiently for the newer BTLE stuff to come to market but so far I'm not hearing about any of the Android phones actually using BTLE devices with compatible apps or am I missing something.

njkayaker

It isn't that hard to figure out in this case. GSM is used to describe the phone in multiple places (and CDMA isn't, except at in the bottom text, which isn't very specific).

The dual SIM market isn't very large in the US (where CDMA is used mostly). And it's a low-end phone.

I'm not sure why you would think HSN would be an accurate source for technical specifications anyway.

Once you got a hit on this particular phone you just need to search for the phone directly.

You don't really know enough about those phones. You really need the specific model numbers and look up the specifications using the model number from some reasonable source.

The cracked screens indicate that they are used (and, presumably, some old(er) model). Anyway, "Droid" is a Verizon trademark. There wouldn't be a high expectation that a Verizon-branded phone would support GSM.

Here are the specs for that phone from a reasonable source of information.

https://www.gsmarena.com/htc_droid_dna-5113.php

It says that it supports CDMA and GSM. It's a reasonably high-end phone (unlike the Samsung Galaxy Duo).

It's a Verizon-only product. I doubt that you'd be able to buy it new without a Verizon contract.

It's not that hard. I pointed out that supporting GSM and CMDA was unusual. That should have been some suggestion to you to do a bit more digging and get confirmation of any first "hits" you got from searching.

I'm not sure why there was a hold-up for BTLE. There are a large number of different Android devices and all sorts of different chips are used too. There is likely different implementions of BTLE. The carriers also exert more control over what gets released for Android than they do over Apple. The "Android people" can't really be expected to deal with that.

Also, Samsung does a lot of stuff that doesn't seem very-well thought-out.

01 CAt Man Do

AH! Didn't see those cracked screens. Odd though, the link was for new phones but a used link was there as well. Could be the photo's were just mixed up on the link. Anyway....

I found other links for the HTC Droid DNA. Yes it is a Verizon product but one geared toward the international user, hence it contains both CDMA and GSM networks. This link mentions trying to use the phone with AT&T and the video explains things a bit more. You can buy the phone without a plan but of course that cost more.

Anyway, the specs on the DNA look pretty good. Not saying I'm getting one but I wouldn't mind taking a look at one at Best Buy.

While on the subject of phones I'm hoping my next phone has better built in audio ( as well as BTLE ). A couple guys I work with have phones with built in audio that is SO much better than mine. Not that I listen to music on my phone that much but on occasion I will listen to some streaming music when the mood strikes.