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Breaking of spokes and plans....

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Breaking of spokes and plans....

Old 08-12-15, 09:22 PM
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choteau
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Breaking of spokes and plans....

About 2 years and 6000 miles ago I built up a wheel using the original rim off my '83 Miyata (Araya 27 x 1 1/4 hp) with a Sturmey XRF5-W hub and cheep wheelsmith spokes. Bought bike from original owner, tires had been replaced once in 26 years.
No problems UNTIL 3 months when ago bumped by a car, broke a spoke on back wheel. Replaced with a stainless one.
A week ago another broken spoke on the back, easily replaced.
Now 2 weeks from a planned 3 day self contained tour, while riding/training with 22+ lbs on the front rack, I break 2 more spokes on the back...
Okay, maybe time to get professional help (for the bike) and I'm told "I'd suggest a new rim and all new spokes". OK, maybe time to do the 650 conversion.... 650A that is.
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Old 08-12-15, 09:26 PM
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With the time interval diminishing, 21 months, 3 months, 1 week....I agree that it's time to start fresh. What you build is up to you.
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Old 08-12-15, 09:48 PM
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I've got a set of nos Sun AT18 rims, so spokes and tires for 2 wheels I'm out about $200 to do it. The Irish part of me wants to just re-spoke the wheel with better and butted spokes for now tho.....
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Old 08-13-15, 12:39 AM
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Whilst youre building a bike, you cant ride it. Or any other for that matter. So id buy one instead. Anything.
I gotta broke spoke on my back wheel, need a new tyre soon too, so im waiting for another spoke or two to break, then ill get a man to do it for me.
I been waiting over a year now. . .
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Old 08-13-15, 12:46 AM
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Are the two rims the same diameter & ERD?

If you bent the rim when you were "bumped", then your spoke tension could be all over the cart trying to bring the rim back true. If you're been tinkering on the wheel for a while, then you'll probably know. But, if the wheel seems round and flat when you take it apart, then I'd just rebuild it. If it is not flat, then replace the rim.

I've wondered if mixing brands/materials of spokes is a bad idea as each will stretch a little bit differently.

Are all of your broken spokes related? For example outbound DS spokes?

In that case, if you've started with 36 spokes / 4 = 9 outbound DS spokes.

You've replaced 4, so you would have 5 left
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Old 08-13-15, 06:59 AM
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After the "bump" incident I carefully loosened all the spokes, checked for flat and round. Replaced the 1 non ds spoke and trued the wheel and re-tensioned the spokes with a meter. The wheel has zero dish (I swapped spacers to center the hub).

The spoke a week ago was a pulling spoke also non ds, about 45 degrees from the other.

Of the 2 yesterday 1 is again non ds, about 45 degrees from the other 2, all 3 are in a 90 degree area of the rim. The other spoke is a ds pulling spoke about centered 180 degrees rotation from the others.
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Old 08-13-15, 09:29 AM
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If the rim & hub are good, respoke it.
Since you originally built the wheel, it should be simple.
I'd use DB spokes, with 1 size "thinner" on the NDS.
Chances are, your original tensions were on the low side.
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Old 08-13-15, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun View Post
I'd use DB spokes, with 1 size "thinner" on the NDS.
Originally Posted by choteau View Post
The wheel has zero dish (I swapped spacers to center the hub).
If the wheel as zero (or minimal) dishing, the DS and NDS spokes should be the same.

It does seem odd that all this started happening after the incident, but the rebuild seems appropriate.

And, if the rim is OK, then just get new spokes.

Build the 650a rims with new hubs.
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Old 08-13-15, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by choteau View Post
I've got a set of nos Sun AT18 rims, so spokes and tires for 2 wheels I'm out about $200 to do it. The Irish part of me wants to just re-spoke the wheel with better and butted spokes for now tho.....
Lets review the bidding. You're STARTING with a 32 year old rim. It might be OK, but I doubt it.
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Old 08-13-15, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
Lets review the bidding. You're STARTING with a 32 year old rim. It might be OK, but I doubt it.
Some cumulative fatigue. Some age hardening. But, for the most part, an older rim that isn't already failing (no cracked spoke holes) should last a while. Maybe not forever, but certainly good for going out on few hundred mile rides.

Perhaps the biggest difference is stronger profiles and better alloys in the newer rims.

If you're doing your own work, I'd just go ahead and buy $30 worth of spokes and put it back together. Always buy name-brand spokes.

If you're having the wheel built, then certainly consider parts value vs labor costs.
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Old 08-13-15, 12:47 PM
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Yes, what you really need is new spokes. I'd have probably replaced them all when the second one went. New rim and/or wheel is your option. Most bikes I've seen of that vintage can convert pretty easily to 700c -- that's 630 down to 622 mm, so the brake pads only have to adjust down 4mm.

650A? (590mm) Do you have a tire in mind? How would you handle braking?
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Old 08-13-15, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Retro Grouch View Post
Lets review the bidding. You're STARTING with a 32 year old rim. It might be OK, but I doubt it.
Am I missing something? The OP says he has NOS rims. I don't know how old they might be, but rims don't age sitting on the shelf.
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Old 08-13-15, 04:13 PM
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While you have the wheel apart, check the hub flanges for elongated or otherwise distorted holes. If the flanges look good and the bearings are in good shape, go for the relace, although I would do it with a new rim if it were my wheel.
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Old 08-13-15, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
Am I missing something? The OP says he has NOS rims. I don't know how old they might be, but rims don't age sitting on the shelf.
"using the original rim off of my '83 Miyata"
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Old 08-13-15, 08:56 PM
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Thanks for the input and advice.

I bought my Miyata from the original owner, he had only replaced the tires once (said they kind of rotted just sitting there in his garage). When I rebuilt the rear wheel using the Sturmey XRF5W I unfortunately used some cheap spokes I had around.. Unlaced the mess today and checked the rim, Less then 1/16" from being flat and round.

Since the planned short tour happens in 12 days I'm not going to try and get the parts together to build up the nos rims I have which are 590-650a-26 x 1 3/8. If I build them up, going to run the Panaracer col de vie's. Braking would be long reach sidepulls, which a friend has.

Tim
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Old 08-13-15, 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted by BlazingPedals View Post
Yes, what you really need is new spokes. I'd have probably replaced them all when the second one went.
In the last year or so, I broke 3 outbound spokes on my front wheel. I think the last one was mid February (not particularly cold weather either). So, I'm now at about 6 months and 2000 to 3000 miles since the last broken spoke.

In June, I did 400 miles in 5 days. For that trip, I decided to bring 2 spare spokes with me. Of course, it is easier to replace front spokes than rear spokes on the road. Z-Bend Spokes? Cable Spokes?

Anyway, I anticipate breaking the rest of the outbound spokes, assuming I keep using the wheel, but one never quite can anticipate when. Days? Months? Years?
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