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"The Tone In Here" and other Sub Forums - Things have changed from 4 Years Ago!!!

Old 08-24-15, 09:46 PM
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"The Tone In Here" and other Sub Forums - Things have changed from 4 Years Ago!!!

I have returned to the States and to BikeForums after a three year stay in the Philippines. I am surprised at the amount of bravado, posturing, hubris and inability to stay on topic in a number of sub-Forums here at BF. Inane comments that do nothing to further the OP's original subject many of which I would classify as juvenile. And that is being polite.

Have things changed so dramatically that common courtesy combined with some serious moderation has been thrown to the sidelines?

I have far better memories of the tenor here (not so much the 50+ area) than what I see today. Am I missing something?

Trust me, I am anything but thin skinned. I do, however, appreciate polite discourse / discussion even if heated. That is not what I am reading in various sub-forums here and it is a major departure from the past.
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Old 08-24-15, 10:52 PM
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What No Internet in the Philippines?

BF has 30/40 New Members each day..365 days Time 35 equals 12775 each year you were Gone.
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Old 08-24-15, 11:26 PM
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Originally Posted by 10 Wheels
What No Internet in the Philippines?

BF has 30/40 New Members each day..365 days Time 35 equals 12775 each year you were Gone.
Internet was no problem. There are hardy and brave souls pedaling in Manila, but i was not one of them.

It is a good thing that Bike Forums continues to grow and I have noticed a considerable increase in international
participation.

So your point is ______________________ ?

Does growth alone justify doing away with common courtesy and civil discourse?
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Old 08-24-15, 11:28 PM
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Originally Posted by fthomas
Internet was no problem. There are hardy and brave souls pedaling in Manila, but i was not one of them.

It is a good thing that Bike Forums continues to grow and I have noticed a considerable increase in international
participation.

So your point is ______________________ ?

Does growth alone justify doing away with common courtesy and civil discourse?
New members I guess.
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Old 08-25-15, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by 10 Wheels
New members I guess.
I like the flag in your avatar by the way. You know what they say

Never ask anyone where their from. If they're from Texas they'll tell you. Otherwise you don't want to embarrass em.
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Old 08-25-15, 12:31 AM
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Forget it, Jake, it's the internet.

Overall Bike Forums isn't bad. I lurked for awhile before registering and posting, and received some very helpful suggestions regarding folding bikes. The niche sub forums vary considerably - largely influenced by the types of bikes and target demographics - but I found the folding bikes forum pretty friendly and informative. A couple others, not so much.

Any gear for any hobby that targets either a purist type of demographic or a very young or old demographic is likely to encounter more, umm... colorful personalities and thread drift. Generalized equipment tends to draw a more tolerant demographic, and I've found discussions of commuting bikes and hybrid, cruiser or comfort bikes pretty chummy, with only a few dismissive or elitist type comments.

Frankly, most web forums have gotten worse with age. In some ways it's an outdated paradigm. I moderated a few hobbyist forums for more than a decade and just resigned because it was hopeless. Too many members insisting on hot button off topic drift in every thread, no matter how irrelevant.

In the late 1990s the carefully moderated web forum paradigm arose from the uselessnet dung heap. But after a decade or so the same abrasive tone, incivility, thread drift and bickering that people claimed they disliked in uselessnet became the new normal in moderated web forums. Social media have changed expectations and lowered the bar for civility. On the one hand, I enjoy Facebook. On the other hand, I've unfollowed, hidden and blocked more people and groups during the past year than during the entire previous six or seven years I was on FB. I don't know whether incivility has grown or I've just become less patient with it.

Nowadays when I'm researching anything I'll first Google around for a few hours or days, mostly reading reviews and comments on static content articles and blogs. Most niche interest websites and blogs have fairly carefully curated comments sections with less gratuitous abrasiveness and fewer digressions. I'll join a discussion forum only after exhausting other research.

So far, so good on Bike Forums. While the diversity of equipment choices is mind boggling compared with when I bought my last serious bike (a Motobecane in 1976), that's a good thing. There's less unwarranted brand consciousness than with some hobbies, and more emphasis on getting the best value at a given price regardless of the marque.

And I'll apologize in advance to the mods of this forum. This is the sort of thing that makes mods facepalm on any type of forum. It's usually a no-win situation for anyone -- to mods, it invariably deteriorates to bickering; to members, it seems like censorship if comments or entire threads are deleted. It's always a choice of "Do I rip the bandage off slowly or quickly?" Either way, nobody is happy.
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Old 08-25-15, 12:52 AM
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Thanks for your well written and thorough perspective. 4 years ago there were a number of interesting and insightful folks here in the 50+. I am sure there still are even if the names have changed. The 50+ threads always tended to be more positive even when disagreements arose. I was just taken aback by the abrasive attitudes, machismo, bravado and inflammatory demeanors in some of the threads I was reading in other sub forums.

It certainly made me wonder how BF is moderated now, which I have to agree is no easy task. Without some firm and reasonable rules / guidelines I can see where much of what I am referring to will simply lead to less positive participation of those disinclined to put up with the immature and abrasive conduct of some. Thus making for a less than enjoyable forum experience.

Guess it a different dynamic than the past and something I was surprised by.

Thanks again for your perspective.
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Old 08-25-15, 05:36 AM
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Eh up lads. . . tea breaks over. ...
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Old 08-25-15, 05:43 AM
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The level of courtesy on any forum and the internet in general has not changed since either was created.
You just happen to be wearing rose colored glasses and do in fact appear to have thin skin.
There is a reason that all forums use mods. BF needs mods now and I am fairly certain they needed and had mods four years ago.
Whats your point again?
Lastly, was the animal in your avatar harmed during the making of that pic? It sure appears possible and I take offense to that.
You never saw that kind of animal cruelty on the internet four years ago
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Old 08-25-15, 07:16 AM
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Originally Posted by fthomas
I have returned to the States and to BikeForums after a three year stay in the Philippines. I am surprised at the amount of bravado, posturing, hubris and inability to stay on topic in a number of sub-Forums here at BF. Inane comments that do nothing to further the OP's original subject many of which I would classify as juvenile. And that is being polite.

Have things changed so dramatically that common courtesy combined with some serious moderation has been thrown to the sidelines?

I have far better memories of the tenor here (not so much the 50+ area) than what I see today. Am I missing something?

Trust me, I am anything but thin skinned. I do, however, appreciate polite discourse / discussion even if heated. That is not what I am reading in various sub-forums here and it is a major departure from the past.
Are you a cyclist or a bike rider?
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Old 08-25-15, 07:16 AM
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A buddy of mine is on a softball forum that emulates a drunken soccer riot within 3 posts no matter the subject.
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Old 08-25-15, 07:23 AM
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Old 08-25-15, 07:27 AM
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I've been here since....oh wait, that's on my av. Anyways, the internet is people. As said, this place has swelled in membership and activity, especially in this current bike boom. As for the tone in here, it isnt always rude, snippity and arrogant. Most of the time it is rather sedate. (Punfully intended)
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Old 08-25-15, 07:29 AM
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Originally Posted by baron von trail
Are you a cyclist or a bike rider?
Toeclips or clipless?
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Old 08-25-15, 07:40 AM
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Even during the "tour" they will attack the Yellow Jersey if he has a mechanical issues, unlike the old days when they would wait.
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Old 08-25-15, 09:58 AM
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I've been on this forum for several years and can't honestly say that I've experienced the kind of changes you (the OP) have. Seems pretty much the same to me.

I can't comment on many of the other forums though I find "Commuting" and our/my local "SoCal" forums friendly and quite useful. Most of my posts and threads that I've read, however, have been on this 50+ forum.

Rick / OCRR

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Old 08-25-15, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Rick@OCRR
I've been on this forum for several years and can't honestly say that I've experienced the kind of changes you (the OP) have. Sems pretty much the same to me.

I can't comment on many of the other forums though I find "Commuting" and our/my local "SoCal" forums friendly and quite useful. Most of my posts and threads that I've read, however, have been on this 50+ forum.

Rick / OCRR
Hey gang! The reason I posted my observations here at 50+ is because it was and still is the most congenial sub Forum.

Now that the issue of Toeclips or Clipless has entered into the discussion. I have to say that platforms are the way for me to go.

I thank yall for your comments. I just need to spend more time here, get acquainted again and participate in some of the threads where I can contribute positively or ask some positively stupid questions. Trust me I am sure I've got plenty of those.
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Old 08-25-15, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Rick@OCRR
I've been on this forum for several years and can't honestly say that I've experienced the kind of changes you (the OP) have. Sems pretty much the same to me.

I can't comment on many of the other forums though I find "Commuting" and our/my local "SoCal" forums friendly and quite useful. Most of my posts and threads that I've read, however, have been on this 50+ forum.

Rick / OCRR
Is this Frank Thomas who use to hang around BF?

I agree with Rick... there hasn't really been much change. The forums that were positive and uplifting (C & A and 50+) remain so and the forums that were "difficult" still are.

I hang mostly in P & R and frankly, while there seems to be alot of childish sniping, it's actually a friendlier place; the mods have done a excellent job keeping things civil...

Social media has changed alot and people are now more emboldened to make comments less appropiate. Also I think younger people, now communicating almost exclusively through a "faceless" media, lack tact; they don't know how to be polite. They aren't rude mind ya, just don't have manners like us old folks...

If this is Frank, welcome back... hope you find one of the forums to your liking...
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Old 08-25-15, 11:28 AM
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I thought this thread was going to be about how we no longer need that sticky *****THE TONE IN HERE**** thread by Tom Stormcrowe because whatever problem prompted that post 2-1/2 years ago isn't a thing anymore.
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Old 08-25-15, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Rick@OCRR
I've been on this forum for several years and can't honestly say that I've experienced the kind of changes you (the OP) have. Sems pretty much the same to me.

Rick / OCRR
That's kind of my observation, too. The people somewhat come and go, but some of those that left were real yahoos, too, so it all stays about the same. Or maybe I'm just one of the uncivil yahoos so I don't notice the deterioration.

I'm okay with thread drift, a lot of times, the alternative is deadness, which is not good either.

"Juvenile" may be a good term for 50% of what's on the internet, but then again, I'm not aware of an age limit in the general forums. So yes, you likely have some people that lack maturity. If they're riding bicycles and talking about it online, that's a good thing, though, so we want 'em to feel welcome here. There's a couple of guys at my bike shop that are way younger than me, and I appreciate their help.
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Old 08-25-15, 11:41 AM
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I agree with Rick and Pamestique.. I dont see that the 50+ has changed much.... and I have been fortunate to meet a couple out on rides (Rick@OCRR and Biker395)
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Old 08-25-15, 11:43 AM
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Ahhh! A bike rider?
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Old 08-25-15, 12:00 PM
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The Tone In Here" and other Sub Forums - Things have changed from 4 Years Ago!!!

Originally Posted by fthomas
I have returned to the States and to BikeForums after a three year stay in the Philippines. I am surprised at the amount of bravado, posturing, hubris and inability to stay on topic in a number of sub-Forums here at BF. Inane comments that do nothing to further the OP's original subject many of which I would classify as juvenile. And that is being polite.

Have things changed so dramatically that common courtesy combined with some serious moderation has been thrown to the sidelines?

I have far better memories of the tenor here (not so much the 50+ area) than what I see today. Am I missing something?

Trust me, I am anything but thin skinned. I do, however, appreciate polite discourse / discussion even if heated. That is not what I am reading in various sub-forums here and it is a major departure from the past.

Originally Posted by canklecat
…Overall Bike Forums isn't bad. I lurked for awhile before registering and posting, and received some very helpful suggestions regarding folding bikes. The niche sub forums vary considerably - largely influenced by the types of bikes and target demographics - but I found the folding bikes forum pretty friendly and informative. A couple others, not so much.

Any gear for any hobby that targets either a purist type of demographic or a very young or old demographic is likely to encounter more, umm... colorful personalities and thread drift. Generalized equipment tends to draw a more tolerant demographic, and I've found discussions of commuting bikes and hybrid, cruiser or comfort bikes pretty chummy, with only a few dismissive or elitist type comments…..
I appreciate these types of threads, sort of introspective about the cycling lifestyle, and for me BikeForums is a keystone, when and when not riding. I’ve been an avid subscriber since about 2008. I guess I roll with the punches; dismissing posts that are silly or vitriolic, or enjoying and replying to many, and reading all those that attract me to decide. In particular I have enjoyed the extra special benefits of meeting others in person on a few Fifty-Plus Annual Rides.

I once posted about the BF style I consider its best form:

Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
…Last year I came upon a post that to me embodied the communication style that I like about BF. In response to a long quote, turbo1889 wrote [not to me]:

Originally Posted by turbo1889
First of all you have no need to apologize for a lengthy post, least of all to me of all people. Part of the reason I like forums as apposed to other forms of written communal internet forms is because I consider it the "long deep conversation format" rather then the quick short snappy sound bite like format like twitter and such.
So when I nest quotes, I feel I’m emulating a conversation…”He said," then “You said," then “I said, and now I’m saying…”
Furthermore,

Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
I have been an avid cyclist, as a lifestyle since about 1972…I happened serendipitously on Bike Forums in 2008, and it was frankly incredible to find a community that shared so many concerns I had kept to myself as a lone cyclist.

This enthusiasm has definitely increased my enjoyment of cycling. As far as improving it, what I have gotten directly from BF are:
  • the opportunity to post and literally "journal" my thoughts and activities about cycling and lifestyle (even if nobody else reads them), but which I wouldn't write down otherwise.
I took note of a couple of other recent threads of a similar nature to this one:

Last edited by Jim from Boston; 08-25-15 at 12:08 PM.
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Old 08-25-15, 01:24 PM
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I do miss some of the 'guys' from several years ago.
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Old 08-25-15, 02:05 PM
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Much of this is about culture. As the membership expands, more cultures collide. In some cultures it is thought impolite to express disagreement. In others a "full and frank exchange of views" is regarded as not merely normal, but pleasing. And individual preferences vary, I like a vigorous debate while others, similarly raised, dislike confrontation.

If one chooses to participate in a forum like this one has to be prepared to encounter differences of style and taste. Those don't necessarily imply boorishness, though some may. De gustibus non est disputandem.
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