nmichell

This is a language issue I think. You can't be pedaling at a different cadence on a regular tandem -- you might be out of phase, but the frequency is the same. But the daVinci has separate freewheels, so all kinds of odd behavior is possible. Now, I've never sat in back, so I can't say for sure, but I put my daughter back there and I feel as though I'm being whipsawed on every pedal stroke. With my wife in back, it's smooth as silk :-)

Carbonfiberboy 

Our lowest tandem gear is 26 front, 34 rear. For our team, that's a slightly higher gear than my 26 front, 27 rear on my single. Close enough that if I can get up it on my single, we can climb it on the tandem, just slower. In general, given unlimited gearing choices, climbing speed on a tandem should be the average of the two team members on their singles.

Our 2003 bare steel tandem weighs 36 lbs. My bare carbon single is 18.5 lbs., so a tandem can easily be lighter than two singles. A local champion team rides a 25 lb. tandem. Gearing is the key to climbing, as always. It also helps a lot if the team members learn to be comfortable with identical cadences and pedaling styles, i.e. distribution of pedal force during the pedal stroke. Ideally, one shouldn't be able to tell the difference between the feel of the pedals on the tandem and one's single.

Our ideal riding routes around here are about ".9" on your scale. They don't go higher than 1.8, and are hard to find below .5 without riding on major highways. Stoker doesn't enjoy rides over "1," but then she can't ride any of our usual routes on her single.

I feel safer on the road on our tandem, solo, than I do on my singles. It's a larger, more impressive vehicle. Cars tend to give us more room and courtesy. We run 28mm Conti 4000 IIs which measure ~32mm on our 23mm (outside) rims at 90 lbs., 281 lb. team. The tandem is more comfortable for me on poor surfaces than is my carbon single and Stoker has a Specialized carbon Cobble Goblr (CGR) seatpost.

B. Carfree

Same here. We even get some cheers and thumbs-up on climbs from motorists. If for some reason motorists are misbehaving, I do my best Stevie Wonder imitation as stoker and they tend to give us more space, thinking the guy on the back is blind or has some neurological problem that is causing his head to bob. I also get a lot of courtesy when I'm cruising around with my grand-daughters on our tandem-plus-trailing bike. No one wants to be the person who harasses children.

Machka 

So then ... my walking speed of 3 km/h + Rowan's cycling speed of 7 km/h ... means that we should be climbing hills at 10 km/h. Huh. It's never worked like that for some reason.


It is difficult to find a route in the south (where we live) that is under a 1. I mentioned two in my previous post, and I can think of one other. There's another one which might be just shy of a 1 ... and I think we could probably manage that one on a tandem. But all 4 of those routes are quite short and do get a bit repetitive. Most routes here run around 1.1 and up, and 10%+ grades are not uncommon.

Again, the north is different ... much flatter (0.6 to 0.8 routes). And we have ridden our tandem there.

I don't think routes under 0.5 exist here ... unless you get onto a really short stretch, like the bit of road between the beach and the airport, perhaps.


As for motor vehicles giving us more room and courtesy ... Tasmania is a complicated state filled with tourists from all over the world (but especially Asia) who are not at all comfortable driving the roads here (they can be really scary whether we're on bicycles or in a car), and forestry people who somehow equate people on bicycles as being a threat to the forestry industry (even though we're not a threat!). Southern Tasmania, in particular, is trying desperately to "find itself" as the population grows with one group wanting the place to become a bustling Melbourne and another group wanting to maintain the small-town atmosphere. And it's all happening on narrow, twisty, hilly, forest-lined roads.

The result is that very few people give each other room, no matter what you're riding or driving or whatever.

Northern Tasmania is much better ... we prefer cycling up there. So much so that we've opted to run all the Audax Tasmania rides we organise in the north.

I'll add that there are roads here in the south that we simply will not ride for a good 6 months of the year because of the heavy tourist traffic. They keep talking about giving tourists "T-Plates" (like how learners have "L-Plates" and probationary drivers have "P-Plates) so that we can easily identify them and avoid them.


All that said, Tasmania does have a 1 metre or 1.5 metre bicycle passing rule, which is great ... but as far as we've seen it is not enforced. Some drivers are really good, but some will not give you that room, and some (the tourists) just seem really confused.

Machka 

Here's a route we rode in early March (on singles!!) ... it's quite similar to a route we might ride in November as a 160 km, and quite similar to many routes around here.

I would NOT have wanted to ride that with the tandem.

Carbonfiberboy 

I understand. There are some major roads here with heavy logging traffic and some with heavy dump truck + pup trailer traffic. We avoid those at all costs.

Average of 3 and 7 is 5 km/hr. The whole deal is gearing, as I said. You can go down to a 24T ring on a 130/74 BCD triple crankset, and up to a 36T 10 speed cassette. You can definitely climb steep stuff with that. We can climb short grades of 15+ with our rig, but maybe only 1/4 mile before we blow. We don't do long climbs of over 10%. We never walk, we just practice turning the cranks slowly, sometimes stopping briefly every mile. The hardest ride we completed was ~250k, 1.2, in 15 hours, including a 45' unplanned stop to fix a brake. We did that a couple years ago and Nancy said, "Never again." It was 104° at the bottom of the last long climb. We are a 140 y.o. relatively untalented team.

Machka 

Unfortunately, we don't have many short climbs. One of the climbs getting from home to ... anywhere ... is a nice gradual 10% grade that goes on for nearly 1 km. That's a relatively short, not too challenging hill. But I wouldn't want to tackle it with a tandem because the real challenge of that hill is getting ready for it.

There's a screaming 14% descent from home ... a busy intersection ... a right turn across traffic ... and then you're right onto the 10% grade climb. You've got a matter of seconds to get into the right gears. I will say that it has improved ... they've put a roundabout at the intersection, so now we've got the curve of the roundabout to find a comfortable gear.

And on the way home, you've got a great 10% descent, round the corner and you're onto the 14% climb the remaining 0.5 km to home.

I'm just much happier doing that on my single.


(Yes, 5 km/h ... a speed at which I'm tippy on my single -- which is why I'm walking)

Carbonfiberboy 

Rowan is a more talented (and younger) cyclist that I, and you are a much more talented (and younger) cyclist than Nancy. The simple fact of tandem riding is that the stronger rider will be slower and the weaker rider will be faster. How much depends on the differential between them. That of course is only true if the tandem is set up for the purpose as well as the riders' individual single bikes, if the individuals are interested in the team effort thing, and if they train together on the tandem consistently rather than on their singles.

I know a tandem couple who always ride their singles on hard group rides or events, simply because the captain wants to ride faster than he can on the tandem, even though he waits for her here and there. Less effort or time in the saddle for him. Except that they just did an unsupported tandem tour from Seattle to Quebec. They wouldn't have been able to do it in the time available if they both had had to ride at her pace, so it was tandem or not do it.

Rowan

So, jppe... there are LOTS of things to consider when riding a tandem.

And CFB... not more talented at all.

jppe

We are finding that out!!

The biggest adjustment for me is to just go slower, or maybe it's not to try and ride faster than what we're doing....It does give me a pretty good workout as it is.

It is all new to her but I think we're progressing okay at this point. I would have hoped we would have ridden more by now but finding time on both our schedules has been challenging. And the weather and conditions have to be "more perfect" than when I ride by myself....

Trsnrtr

If you ride a tandem long enough, you get to where you can almost read each other's mind. That's when you know you've reached tandem nirvana..

Dolanarc1

Does this count

Dolanarc1

twodownzero

I've always wanted to try it, but I'm 5'5" (and my partners are nearly always as short or shorter than me, present one is 5'3"). To fit on one similar to our singles, we would need a custom bike. One day I'll prioritize that and give it a try. I think it could be really fun.

Carbonfiberboy 

I'm a short legged 5'6-1/2". My wife is 5'1". We ride a stock CoMostion Medium/Small. You'd have to look at various models and manufacturers to see if you'd have standover height. Stoker doesn't need standover. Single bikes don't really need standover, but a tandem captain definitely needs it. Touching the top tube is OK, but pressure is not. I think you'll find a stock bike OK because most modern tandems have sloping top tubes. Look at a CoMotion Periscope.

twodownzero

Their "small" has a 545mm top tube, which is 15-20 mm longer than any bike I'm currently riding. I could probably deal with the reach issues with an 80mm stem and I could stand over it at 29.25". It wouldn't be the way I would prefer the bike to fit, but it probably wouldn't be completely terrible. Ideally I'd shorten the top tube a hair and keep the seat tube the same length, but I could get by with the "small" size of the bike you suggest. Now someone find me a used one for sale within driving distance and I'd be happy to take it for a test ride!