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Old 10-09-17, 05:02 AM   #1
Machoman121
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Very scary - Exercise kills

No Cookies | Gold Coast Bulletin - Regarding Dean Mercer - the Aussie Triathlete

&

No Cookies | Daily Telegraph-Regarding Lisa Curry

There's a book out on the topic:

https://www.velopress.com/books/the-haywire-heart/

Too much exercise can kill you. The Haywire Heart is the first book to examine heart conditions in athletes. Intended for anyone who competes in endurance sports like cycling, triathlon, running races of all distances, and cross-country skiing, The Haywire Heart presents the evidence that going too hard or too long can damage your heart forever. You’ll find what to watch out for, what to do about it, and how to protect your heart so you can enjoy the sports you love for years to come.

The Haywire Heart shares the developing research into a group of conditions known as “athlete’s heart”, starting with a wide-ranging look at the warning signs, symptoms, and how to recognize your potential risk. Leading cardiac electrophysiologist and masters athlete Dr. John Mandrola explores the prevention and treatment of heart conditions in athletes like arrhythmia, atrial fibrillation and flutter, tachycardia, hypertrophy, and coronary artery disease. He reviews new research about exercise intensity and duration, recovery, inflammation and calcification, and the ways athletes inflict lasting harm.

These heart problems are appearing with alarming frequency among masters athletes who are pushing their bodies harder than ever in the hope that exercise will keep them healthy and strong into their senior years. The book is complete with gripping case studies of elite and age-group athletes from journalist Chris Case—like the scary condition that nearly killed cyclist and coauthor Lennard Zinn—and includes a frank discussion of exercise addiction and the mental habits that prevent athletes from seeking medical help when they need it.

Dr. Mandrola explains why many doctors misdiagnose heart conditions in athletes and offers an invaluable guide on how to talk with your doctor about your condition and its proven treatments. He covers known heart irritants, training and rest modifications, effective medications, and safe supplements that can reduce the likelihood of heart damage from exercise.

Heart conditions affect hardcore athletes as well as those who take up sports seeking better health and weight loss. The Haywire Heart is a groundbreaking and critically important guide to heart care for athletes. By protecting your heart now and watching for the warning signs, you can avoid crippling heart conditions and continue to exercise and compete for years to come.
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Old 10-09-17, 05:02 AM   #2
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Old news.



While it would appear the book is new, there have been articles about this popping up all over the place for years now. It all comes down to how you'd rather go out.

Last edited by Machka; 10-09-17 at 05:07 AM.
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Old 10-09-17, 05:59 AM   #3
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And there's a huge difference between the stress and effort involved just doing high mileage, and high mileage at the speeds and sustained effort these top athletes train for and achieve.

These people really are exceptional.
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Old 10-09-17, 06:12 AM   #4
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Good discussion about the book here a few months back, led me to purchase it. Its a good bit of information to digest. If you aren't up on medical and anatomical/physiological terminology it gets sloggy, but it was worth the time to read. The co-authors all did a pretty good job of making their points, without being overzealous, and they do differentiate between casual exercise and serious-high level regimens of training in their case examples and cited references.

Lennard Zinn has been a favorite writer on. bicycle topics, he did a good job on his part of the text, mainly based on his own recent experiences with fibrillation issues. I read it twice because I wanted to be sure that I understood the points about AFib and VFib, since I am having issues with one or the other now, probably AFib due to PD medications. The information led me to seek out my Primary Care Physician's thoughts about the things I am experiencing and feeling as I go about daily activities and cycling. An echocardiogram was the starting point, now I hope to see what is happening.

If you tend to find yourself thinking that every symptom or disease you read about is now upon you, pass it up before you think yourself into a visit to the ER.

Bill
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Old 10-09-17, 06:55 AM   #5
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Old news.
While it would appear the book is new, there have been articles about this popping up all over the place for years now. It all comes down to how you'd rather go out.
Yeah, I first started hearing about this when Jim fixx the runner died of a heart attack in 1984.
One thing I do cringe at is these old guys in their 80's trying to complete a marathon and finish into the night so wiped out, they have to be carried off the course.

Last edited by carl7; 10-09-17 at 06:58 AM.
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Old 10-09-17, 07:44 AM   #6
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What??? Somebody is claiming that it's possible that over-training can have consequences? I'm shocked!
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Old 10-09-17, 08:07 AM   #7
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The last two times I was wired up to a heart machine, they couldn't find a beat . . .
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Old 10-09-17, 08:17 AM   #8
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Yeah, I first started hearing about this when Jim fixx the runner died of a heart attack in 1984.
From what I heard, he had a congenital heart condition which he knew about and was pretty much running in defiance of it, knowing he was almost certain to explode internally whether he ran or sat on the couch.
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One thing I do cringe at is these old guys in their 80's trying to complete a marathon and finish into the night so wiped out, they have to be carried off the course.
If I can Walk a marathon at 80 ,,, let alone run one ... and I have to be carried off the course after finishing, I will laugh long and loudly at anyone saying "You might have taken years off your life."

At that age every minute is sheer luck, so use each minute well. If a person would rather spend ten years in a bed, excreting into a bag, eating through a tube down the nose, getting rolled over to prevent bed sores .... Have a great life. I would rather die running a marathon if it came down to it.

Quality of life trumps quantity. Otherwise why not get yourself put into a medical coma and maintained by machines once you get old ... you won't know you are alive but you won't die.
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Old 10-09-17, 08:21 AM   #9
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If you tend to find yourself thinking that every symptom or disease you read about is now upon you, pass it up before you think yourself into a visit to the ER.

Bill
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Old 10-09-17, 08:23 AM   #10
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reminds me, I was so tired & sore yesterday, after a full day of work, the day after a longish ride, that I couldn't lay down hard enough, to feel properly rested. I guess that's where drugs would come in
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Old 10-09-17, 08:26 AM   #11
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And there's a huge difference between the stress and effort involved just doing high mileage, and high mileage at the speeds and sustained effort these top athletes train for and achieve.

These people really are exceptional.
I don't think it is exactly a matter of speed or pace, but instead, level of exertion. Often, the THR (targeted heartrate zone) for competitive athletes is 75-85% of MHR (maximum heartrate). Runners and cyclists who are prone to overstimulation (adrenal rush) often run in the same heartrate zone, as do beginning runners who are doing "too much, too soon".
Though it is much more difficult to achieve this "danger zone" while cycling, as compared to running, those of us in our later years do not have adequate hormone supply to fuel the adrenals for everyday, long, intense workouts.
I have not yet read The Haywire Heart, but I presume that the author speaks of adrenal hormones being necessary for the function of our major organs. Any of our organs can shut down when cortisol, and then adrenaline is exhausted.
There are measures we can take, but in the end, we are forced to examine the nature of what we choose as a source of energy: Stimulation or serenity.

Last edited by 1989Pre; 10-10-17 at 06:59 PM.
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Old 10-09-17, 08:44 AM   #12
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...they couldn't find a beat . . .
That's a problem for some drummers and bass players.

-mr. bill
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Old 10-09-17, 09:14 AM   #13
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I'd much rather have my heart explode while doing what I enjoy than fearing to do anything.

But who hasn't heard these same "new studies" get rehashed from both sides several times over in the last 30 to 40 years?
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Old 10-09-17, 11:03 AM   #14
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That's a problem for some drummers and bass players.

-mr. bill


'What do you call someone who hangs around with musicians?'

'A drummer.'
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Old 10-09-17, 11:20 AM   #15
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Quality of life trumps quantity. Otherwise why not get yourself put into a medical coma and maintained by machines once you get old ... you won't know you are alive but you won't die.
I agree with this completely but at the same time, it does not mean you can party hearty endlessly. As always, balance is necessary.
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Old 10-09-17, 12:12 PM   #16
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Geez. What a thread title. It's supposed to be a PSA or what?

Not exercising can kill too. I've taken my bike on my travels. I'd much rather do that than sitting on the couch.
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Old 10-09-17, 12:31 PM   #17
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Everyone dies of something. No one here gets out alive.
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Old 10-09-17, 12:53 PM   #18
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'What do you call someone who hangs around with musicians?' 'A drummer.'
I have heard a whole bunch of drummer put-down jokes .... that one is new. Thank you.
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Old 10-09-17, 01:18 PM   #19
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All I know is that the lady who used to live at the other end of the street where I grew up jogged almost every day, all year ‘round, for decades - the last time I saw her go by was about a week before she died in her sleep. She got very slow the final 6-8 years - but she was 97 (yes, 97!) when she died. She was also one of the very first female physicians who graduated from the University of Michigan Medical School - class of 1927.

Then there was the lady who ran the mom and pop pharmacy in town until her husband, the pharmacist, died when she was close to 80. So, she sold the pharmacy and devoted most of her free time to her passion, golf. She was still playing at 95; when she didn’t show up one morning and no one could get an answer on her phone, the neighbor with the key checked, she had passed away in bed of a massive stroke.

All I know is my odds of staying healthy and active into old age are much better than those of my one older sibling, who is at least 100 lbs overweight, lives on fast food, junk food and soda, and can barely walk at 63 because of blown-out knees and hips.

I ask myself - who would I like to hang with at 73 ... the guys who are out there riding every day, or the guys in the assisted living or nursing home who need a health aid to shower, dress, and move from bed to chair? Kind of a no-brainer.
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Old 10-09-17, 01:19 PM   #20
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And there's a huge difference between the stress and effort involved just doing high mileage, and high mileage at the speeds and sustained effort these top athletes train for and achieve.

These people really are exceptional.
I can attest to the fact that it does happen.

From my early 20's until I was 40, I cycled and ran pretty seriously. My main sport was the long distance runs, marathon to 50 miles. My average training week included 50-70 miles of running,some swimming, and weight work. About once a month, daylight permitting, I'd run the 25 miles home from work, and ride my bike back to work the next morning. I was a decent distance runner, placing 9th in the Men's Open 50km National Championships.

Yes, I have had heart rythem issues. They are something to be monitored, but not debilitating. When I was 64 my wife and I rode 3700 miles across the U.S. averaging a little over 50 miles a day for 74 consecutive days.

I'm now 74 and we are just finishing up a 1500 mile ride across the Midwest. Including this tour, our total self supported touring mileage is approaching 20,000 miles during the last ten years

Heart issues are something to take seriously, but are not necessarily show stoppers.

Last edited by Doug64; 10-09-17 at 03:23 PM.
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Old 10-09-17, 01:47 PM   #21
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It's amazing how eager people are to find reasons for staying on the couch.

Some extreme endurance athletes get arrythmias. OK. Most people - even most people who race bikes, run marathons, do triathlons - don't come into that category. And every bit of serious research I ever heard of indicates that people who take intensive exercise tend to live longer, and enjoy better health later in life, than those who don't.

It's my experience that most people don't slow down because they got old, they get old because they slowed down. Monitor your health, by all means, but don't imagine that you'll be better off if you avoid hard exercise.
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Old 10-09-17, 02:47 PM   #22
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it's amazing how eager people are to find reasons for staying on the couch.

some extreme endurance athletes get arrythmias. Ok. Most people - even most people who race bikes, run marathons, do triathlons - don't come into that category. And every bit of serious research i ever heard of indicates that people who take intensive exercise tend to live longer, and enjoy better health later in life, than those who don't.

It's my experience that most people don't slow down because they got old, they get old because they slowed down. Monitor your health, by all means, but don't imagine that you'll be better off if you avoid hard exercise.
q.f.t.
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Old 10-09-17, 05:26 PM   #23
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'What do you call someone who hangs around with musicians?' 'A drummer.'
I have heard a whole bunch of drummer put-down jokes .... that one is new. Thank you.
Q: What do you call a musician without a girlfriend?
A: Homeless.

Heard that one decades ago from a then struggling up-and-coming musician friend who's girlfriend (now wife) is a nurse. He's now considered one of the world's premier blues guitarists.
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Old 10-09-17, 05:28 PM   #24
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This just in: Everything gives you cancer.

Especially health scare-articles.

Pass the whole eggs and butter, pleezthx.

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Old 10-09-17, 05:46 PM   #25
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I believe every long term study of both exercise at any and all levels, as well as all levels of non-exercise have come the the same end result. The participants either die by the end of the study or later. To my knowledge there are no exceptions barring those who haven't hit "later" yet.

To my way of thinking, it is all about how we want to live (and how we would like to go).

Ben
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