You didn't mention if the XT hubs were 6 bolt brake or newer centerlock. The Avid brakes would be for the 6 bolt.

details......details...........now where is that nutronium space modulator.

Subject to rotor compatibility (as per MadM above), I'll give a shout for the XT/717 Disc choice; I've been using this (w/the xt 6bolt hubs) now for two seasons. If you're not doing "sweet jumps" etc. () this really is as bullet-proof, durable, AND light set-up as you could want. The Mavic 'factory' style wheels are very nice, and look the business, but you are getting some proprietary parts. The xt hubs, though cup/cone, are (therefore) fully rebuildable/user serviceable, the quality of the races etc. is a whole level above Deore/LX, and the wheels use standard spokes. I haven't had to touch my wheels or hubs yet (they're checked twice/year) with close on to 10,000 kms on them. There's a reason a lot of long-distance touring riders use these hubs

TB,
Just read through the entire thread. Looks like you are getting pretty serious. I am going through this process except with a Gunnar Sport.

Just wanted to add some comments.

Having built up two bikes now I can say that there is almost no way that a new build-up can compete pricewise with a the price of a new complete build. An alternative can be to buy the complete if it is close to what you want and then change out the remaining components and sell them back to the LBS for credit. Or, of course, use parts you already own.

When buying on flea-Bay I have come to take into account an extra "cost enhancement factor" due to mishaps that happen during the transactions. These mishaps range from outright fraud to counterfeit or defective parts.

On my latest build I am working through an LBS and buying everything from him. I went through what you are doing in terms of shopping around on the internet to put together the initial estimate. I didn't tell him what that was. Fact is, his estimate is coming in below the lowest of what I can do mixing and matching from Jenson, Nashbar, flea Bay etc. On average I am paying 78% retail for the components (installed). There is less of a discount (85%) on the frame. Plus, he will warrantee and adjust the bicycle which is important since it is not a standard build and in my experience there are always early problems to sort out.

Good luck.

I have not yet completely ruled out going with the Gunnar Sport frame. Would use the same build package as I'm working on now. Maybe even go 650C wheels, if they feel there is enough clearance for a crankset with 165mm or 170mm cranks. But 700 would work. I would need to change out the fork for one that has a shorter axle to crown distance.

Would have to switch from disc brakes, but that's no big deal for me. Would still go with mountain bike stem, handlebar, cassette, derailleurs, twistshifters, crankset, etc.

The Sport 540 (54cm) frame has acceptable measurements for me, especially with a slighter smaller wheel.

I've looked at going this way a number of times.

With these cold, cold winter days, there is time to consider several options. This is actually a less expensive route than going with the Rock Tour frame. The Sport w/carbon fork is $950, which is $300 less out of the gate.

Question

I am not as familiar with road bike parts. If I were to use standard road caliper brakes, what flar bar brake levers would be compatible with them? I've seen Shimano 105 flat bar brake levers, they came standard on a Fuji flat bar road bike that I've riden. But would something like Avid SD-7 brake levers work with them?

Also the Shimano Ultegra 6600 caliper brakes use the term 10-speed in their name. I'm assuming that means they are compatible with 10-speed brifters. Is there anything else to this?

The Avid SD7 is the wrong ratio for road calipers. They can be made to work so so by dialing them down to max torque and min cable pull but on long rides your hands will get tired. You would be better to stay with the Flat bar levers or some other brands like Tektro/TRP for Road bike levers.

There are numerous tricks you can play with cyclocross brakes (interrupters) used as stand alone road ratio levers on all sorts of bars. One thing I am not sure of though is whether or not they will provide the proper clearance when installed inboard of grip twist shifters. They work just as well as normal levers except the mechanics is to push the housing rather than pull the cable. Works the same as the differential is all that matters.

They can be bought cheap or for as little as $50 a set you can get TRP carbon fiber levers. TRP, Tektro (same company) and some others make these levers in 3 band clamp sizes. 31.8mm for the center of OS bars, 26.0mm for the center of standard road bars and 24mm for the outer section of road mars or aero bars. This latter size will probably clamp on MTB bars without problem.

I was only using the Avid SD7's as an example. I don't know of any "flat bar levers." And when you are talking about "road bike lever" are you refering to those road bike brake levers that mount horizontally? I told you I don't know much about road bike components. Perhaps I will have to go out browsing around the parts sites, like Jenson, to figure out what you are talking about.

Back from Jenson now, are you referring to something like these:
https://www.jensonusa.com/store/produ...ke+Levers.aspx

The bottom bracket drop is the same on all the Gunnar Sports--80 mm. On the Rock Tour it is 40 mm for the 26" wheel. Therefore, the ground clearance on the Sport it is something like 715-80=635 mm and for the Rock Sport it is (16" frame, 26" wheel) it is 670-40= 630 mm which is surprisingly similar.

The Rock Tour has more standover clearance. Longer chainstays and wheelbase (smoother ride). The top tube is the same. More clearance under the down tube for hydraulic front fork excursion but the riding position could be made similar on either.

The Rock Tour is a sweet concept and if I buy one more bike it would be something like it. (Hopefully it goes fast cross country since I would need to be able to outrun the wife.)

Those are MTB ratio. Try the Shimano BL-R550

These are adjustable to go either way.

Thanks for info all.

One more frame, is the Salsa El Mariachi 29'er frame setup to be too much a mountain race bike or could it be a nice all-rounder everyday bike? The 16" frame is close to my fit measurements, and the higher front end looks appealing. I'm assuming I could use 700 wheels on it, and get back to some nice 700x32 tires. The fork is OX steel on it, as compared to 4130 cro-moly on the Ala Carte.

Please don't do that. An El Mariachi would cry itself to sleep every night being used as a path bike.

But I know where to get one at a great price! Below the price of an Ala Carte.

Good. Get it and start riding some singletrack.

Wouldn't the 30.6" standover height be a problem?

You could probably make a bike like you want from a modern MTB frame, but it would be a compromise. The 17.5" Mendota seems to be the closest you have found to what you want. It has 2" lower standover, 1/2" shorter top tube, tighter geometry...

Maybe you should contact someone like Curtlo and have a frame built just for you and for what you want to do with it.

It's an '07 which has a standover of 28.8".

The Mendota and the Rock Tour are the two frames that seem to fit me the closest. I have ridden a bike with a 565mm virtual top tube length and it fit well. The El Mariachi is 10mm longer, but with a 10mm shorter stem, I'm at the same place.

Even the 30.6" would probably work. With shoes on, I'm close to 30", and the 30.6" is the average (center) measurement, that was taken with thicker wheels. The standard just in front of the saddle, with 700x32 tires, would be below 30" and workable. I purposely rode a bike last week with a standover of 772mm, with my standard biking shoes, and had no problems.

In any case, the '07 is easily within parameters.

El Mariachi
El Mariachi

I'm starting to hear a tune in my head.

It will probably work, but I may get sick.

Tom,
Based on my experience I would advise not putting overly much weight on price. I bought my Roubaix in October and now I am replacing it with the Gunnar Sport. I got an unbelievable price on the Roubaix (the LBS was no longer a Specialized dealer and was closing out) and it is a great bike. But there were several things that, in the end, I can't live with. It was a good learning experience.

So, think about how you really want to use the bike and what are the inadequacies with what you have now. What can't you do? What opportunities will open up with the new bike? Have you learned everything you can from it or will the next bike be another learning experience (like my Roubaix). If the next bike is going to be a keeper then don't put cost as priority one because you will want to keep it a long time.

Come to think about it, I'm not sure you have really summarized here what you really want to do on a bike (the requirements document in engineer speak) and that should be foremost in your mind. I know fit is a priority with you but where/how/in what style do you wish to ride?

(BTW: The El Mariachi is geared really low. I know you know that but...Really what are your requirements?)

The El Mariachi I am looking at is a frame only, so gearing would be left up to me. However I want fairly low gearing. My tentative build kit for the Rock Tour is 44/32/22 front, 11-26 rear. That's where I'd gear the Mariachi too. The Mendota is 48/36/26 front, 11-26 rear. No need to go 11-32 or 11-34 rear, as I'll never try to climb hills that need those gears. I suspect I would rarely be in the 22t ring.

I know they sell the El Mariachi complete bike with that oddball 32t front, 11-34 rear.

BluesDawg knows I'm not planning to push this bike, that's why he groans when I mention a high performance mountain bike frame. If I ride any mountain bike trails at all, they will be beginner's level.

Just looking for a bike that can be a comfy 50 miler on asphalt, dirt, or fine gravel. And might encourage me to improve my fitness and performance. Maybe tackle a few more hills than I do on my 30 pound Trek hybrid. Oh, and in case you've missed my 50 posts on this subject, I hate drop bars. Also riding at 15mph is a really good day (actually hour) for me.

Looking for something that is in the 21-23 pound range that is comfortable over a 4 hour ride on fine gravel, slightly bumpy trails.

Have liked the Gary Fisher Mendota, 2007 Specialized Globe Pro, and what I've read about the Gunnar Rock Tour. I've ridden on approx 75-80 different bikes in the past 18 months!

Have you ever checked out the Haro line of mountain bikes. They tend toward very low standover heights and relatively long top tubes. I suspect that it is because of their background in BMX and dirt jumping.

I have a V4 frame with a 23+ top tube that has very little room for a water bottle on the seat tube because the front diamond is so compressed. (extreme compact top tube)

The complete bike with disc's and a Marzocchi EXR fork (OEM version of the MX comp with air adjust) comes in at just under 25lbs. This setup would shave hundreds off the cost of the more expensive frame and is very fine for just the type of riding you like. You will also have the option to put more agressive tires on it and gear it up for some rougher trails should you want to. (having 2 sets of wheel/tire/gears transforms the beast from rail to trail in minutes.)

Okay. Got it now, thanks. 50 miles is a pretty good ride. Wish I could find such trails around here. Actually, we have an Iron Horse Trail paved which must go for 30 miles or so. Never ridden it to the end since it has a lot of strollers (animal and mineral) on it.

The Rock Tour seems like a good fit and smooth ride in every respect and probably can come in at 23-ish pounds depending on what you put on it. I am estimating my Sport will be about 22 lb but we will see in a month's time. I don't really know what the frames sets weigh on these but am using 6.5 lb for the 54 cm Gunnar Sport with S&S couplers and a steel fork.

The Soma Juice might be an option. Very close in dimension to the El Mariachi. Tange Prestige is not OX Platinum, but it's not 4130 either. Since I don't think you have any single speed ambitions, the lack of EBB would be an advantage over the Salsa. A good bit less expensive too. Especially if there are still '07 models around.

23+ is too long for me. The El Mariachi's 576mm is at the high end of my comfort zone. In fact, that is my primary concern about this frame. Would have to go with a short stem on it, maybe 80mm. I've been paying close attention to what top tube length feels best and the answer keeps coming back at around 555-565 with 90-100mm stem. The Mariachi gets to that range with an 80mm stem.

I rode a Gunnar Rock Hound 16" frame, that has a 580mm top tube and it had a 120mm stem. That was definitely way too long.

I've looked at the Soma frames too. My immediate opportunity, which could dry up at any second, on the Salsa El Mariachi, has this option at about $100 less than going with a Soma Juice.