Well, I am not sure if this is a conundrum or not, I just happen to like that word.

Anyway, today was my most active day since my fusion 6 weeks ago - Early morning 1 mile walk to the gym, 50 minutes of swimming, 1 mile walk back, ride bike about 1.5 hours then ride to physical therapy, followed by a very pleasant lunch with Latitude 65, and his and my wives (wifes?).

Temp was from about 33 - 38F, and the wind was gusting to 25 mph. It was during the ride that it occurred to me that riding 5 mph against a 25 mph wind seemed a whole lot harder than riding 30 mph with no wind.

So, does this seem the case with anyone else, and, if I am not the only strange one here, why is that? - I mean that riding into a wind seems harder than a comparable combined speed with no wind. And, yes - I was going about 5 - 8 mph on my mountain bike against a most gusty and obstinate chilly wind for about an hour.

If I am riding at 30 mph-it will be a miracle unless gravity is giving me a hand.

But You are not the strange one. I often ride down to the coast and get upset at my poor average speed. I am working hard and into a headwind. May not be a great headwind speed but 15 mph into a 15mph headwind give me a total headwind of 30mph.---Think about it

So on that reverse trip with the 15mph now tailwind- why can't I get more than 20mph? That means that I now have a Total headwind of 5mph. So every time I ride faster than the tailwind----I will start slowing up.

That my excuse for my slow average speed on rides and I am sticking to it

I'm no physicist or mathmatician, stapfam, but isn't there a force requirement to move mass, separate from the wind resistance? Isn't that why E-mc2 limits the speed of anything to the speed of light, because with any mass at all, the energy required isn't possible? It's that physics thing that is holding you back! I have no explanation whatever for what DnvrFox is describing.

I think it's harder to do 30 than something less into a wind, even if the wind + speed = 30.

This thread I started a while back got a few responses that may help:
https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...=#post11635750

I think the reason that going 15mph into a 15mph headwind is harder than 30mph in still air is turbulence. I have to think that you are more aerodynamically efficient moving through still air than you are through turbulent air.

By your reckoning if you had reversed directions you should have done 25mph without pedaling, and we all know that wouldn't happen.

Remember that mechanical friction from both the drivetrain and the hubs make higher speeds more demanding of power. It's not just aerodynamics.

Don't forget gravity.
Whether your ridng into a headwind, with a tailwind or in a vacuum you still are fighting gravity which tends to slow a moving object.

Personally I find it much easier to ride 15mph into a 15mph headwind than to ride 30mph with no wind. I couldn't ride a sustained 30mph no matter what.

Somehow I don't think the comparison is valid.

Well, actually, I was thinkong of 30 mph DOWNHILL. I don't think I ever stated on the level.

But, in any event, it seems as if I am the odd one here. Oh well,that sort of reflects my life. What's new?

It's purely psychological. It always affects my energy level when I ride into the wind. Riding into the wind for any amount of time leaves me hating life! I would much rather expend my energy climbing a hill, at least there's a feeling of accomplishment when I get to the top and then a fast ride down the hill to look forward to. I think that it's purely psychological.

Pretty much around here, if I don't ride in the wind I don't ride. So, I just figure it is a really long hill, hope the wind doesn't change directions so that on the way back I can pretend I am going downhill. But, I agree - there is a strong psychological component. But, it does not cause me to hate life. Just lucky, I guess.

There you go with that "odd one" thing again.

I thought some more about that after we left lunch, which was fun by the way.

The way I decided to think about it was in terms of airplanes. If an airplane has a minimum flight speed of 100mph it will fly whether that speed is obtained by the airplane's propulsion, or by the ambient wind. That is why airplanes "fly" in hurricanes and wind storms.

But that is just the way I'm thinking about the question and I may be one of those odd ones.

So, the conclusion is to put wings on my bicycle. I'll try that, but I doubt it will fly!

I'm not an intelligent man, nor do I play one on T.V.

That being said, here's my thinking on the subject. I've also often noticed that when achieving a speed equal to or in excess of 30 mph the wind seems to be much less buffeting than when riding into a strong headwind at a much slower speed.

I suspect it has something to do with the force driving the air. I compare moving through air to moving through water. I can see the water and it helps me to envision what might be happening as we attempt to move against that 25 mph head wind.

Imagine running or swimming against a strong current. There will be a constant force of water pushing against you impeeding your foreward motion. Now imagine swimming through calm water. You can easily slice through the motionless liquid gently pusing it aside and around your body. If you could achive the speed of the strong current previously mentioned, I believe you would still not feel the same resistance from the water as you did swimming slower against the current.

I suspect it's much the same with air, much easier to slice through still air than to overcome on-rushing air. I can't help but wonder if once you start slicing through the calm air, a current sets it's self up on each side of your body helping to draw the air past you as you continue moving foreward.

Wow! I'm really confused now that I've read my thoughts.

One thing I do know for sure, I think.....

Whether wind blows or sucks is simply a matter of which way I'm facing!

EDIT: Tell you what. I'll be seeing my daughter in a couple of weeks. She's a Model Design Engineer for a leading Aerospace Co. She is totally into flight and fluid dynamics (or whatever it is called). I'll ask her to explain it to me in a dumbed down version that I'll understand.

If you are doing 5mph into the wind...........you will be doing it for a lot longer for any given distance than if your covering it at 30mph with no wind. That should have an effect on your perception of difficulty.

YES!!

I think you are BRILLIANT. This makes sense to me.

Relative wind is relative wind.........no matter the source.

I have some relatives who are windy and some who are not

Who's peekin' out from under a stairway
Calling a name that's lighter than air
Who's bending down to give me a rainbow
Everyone knows it's Windy

Who's tripping down the streets of the city
Smilin' at everybody she sees
Who's reachin' out to capture a moment
Everyone knows it's Windy

And Windy has stor-my eyes
That flash at the sound of lies
And Windy has wings to fly
Above the clouds (above the clouds)
Above the clouds (above the clouds)


And Windy has stor-my eyes
That flash at the sound of lies
And Windy has wings to fly
Above the clouds (above the clouds)
Above the clouds (above the clouds)

Who's tripping down the streets of the city
Smilin' at everybody she sees
Who's reachin' out to capture a moment
Everyone knows it's Windy


I hope that helps with the discussion

Confused or not. Scientifically supported or not. You've got it! Like a shop vac it all depends on in which end the hose is inserted.

Oh my. Back in Jr High, I went through a phase of learning to play every musical instrument I could get my hands on. The song I chose to demonstrate my expertise on each of them was this song. My poor parents.

Well, in that case, yes I think that coasting downhill at 30 mph is much easier than riding on flat ground at 15 mph into a 15 mph wind. Coasting uphill at that speed is a lot harder, though.

It's the other way around.

Neglecting friction, aero drag is a function of the apparent wind speed. So whether you are travelling 30MPH with no wind or 15MPH into a 15MPH headwind the aero drag or force resisting forward movement is identical.

Since power is equal to aero drag x ground speed, travelling 15MPH into a 15MPH headwind will take 1/2 the power required to ride 30MPH without wind. The drag is the same but in one case you are doing much more work in a given time period.

Using an online speed-to-watts calculator there is a big differeence between riding 15 mph into a 15 mph head wind vs. riding 30 mph into a 0 mph headwind.

Assuming the rider is 150 lbs, the bike weighs 22 lbs, clincher tires, the same crank length, and the rider is in the drops. A rider hammering for 10 minutes @ 30 mph will average 499 watts. The same rider traveling on the same setup riding 15 mph into a 15 mph head wind for 10 minutes will average 319 watts.

It was a free online calculator so take it for what it's worth.