Foot angle on the down stroke?
#1
Thread Starter
Senior Member
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,441
Likes: 1
From: Nederland, Texas
Bikes: 2011 Specialized Sectuer, 1988 Bianchi
Foot angle on the down stroke?
What is the proper angle of the foot on the down stroke? Toes pointed down? Toes and heel level? Heel pointed down?
#2
Banned.
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 8,651
Likes: 3
From: Uncertain
People vary. Heel down is recommended, but some can't do it. It's best to avoid being too much on your toes, it transfers too much of the strain from quads to calves, which reduces power and can lead to cramping and Achilles problems.
Last edited by chasm54; 10-10-11 at 06:10 AM.
#3
Senior Member ??
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,098
Likes: 0
From: Englewood,Ohio
Bikes: 2007 Trek Madone 5.0 WSD - 2007 Trek 4300 WSD - 2008 Trek 520 - 2014 Catrike Trail
There are several good videos on proper pedal stroke. Here's just one of them.
https://www.ehow.com/video_6204015_ro...technique.html
https://www.ehow.com/video_6204015_ro...technique.html
__________________
=============================================================
Enjoy the little things in life, for one day you may look back and realize they were the big things.
-- Antonio Smith
=============================================================
Enjoy the little things in life, for one day you may look back and realize they were the big things.
-- Antonio Smith
#5
I need speed
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 5,550
Likes: 1
From: Phoenix, AZ
Bikes: Giant Propel, Cervelo P2
It is generally considered efficient to use your ankles for added power. Mine don't flex much, unfortunately. If you watch a pro peloton, there is a difference in the range of motion from rider to rider.
#6
Still spinnin'.....
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,208
Likes: 2
From: Whitestown, IN
Bikes: Fisher Opie freeride/urban assault MTB, Redline Monocog 29er MTB, Serrota T-Max Commuter, Klein Rascal SS, Salsa Campion Road bike, Pake Rum Runner FG/SS Road bike, Cannondale Synapse Road bike, Santana Arriva Road Tandem, and others....
The best advice I ever got on pedal strokes was that it should be like scaping mud off your shoe at the bottom of the stroke, and to ride a Fixed gear to develop the habit of spinning in circles. Both served me well.....
#7
Senior Member
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 5,804
Likes: 1
From: Medina, OH
Bikes: confidential infromation that I don't even share with my wife
The foot angle on the push over the top depends on how far back in the saddle you are. The angle of the foot on the down stroke follows. If you are back in the saddle you can drop the heel and get additional force from the hip flexors then push on the down stroke by flexing the ankle. That position takes some of the force from pulling up on the other pedal. When I am doing long climbs I move back and drive, when sprinting I move up and generate additional rpms by utilizing the complete pedal stroke for power.
#8
I move all over the saddle depending on road conditions. If I'm back, I tend to drop my heal more. If I'm forward I tend to be more neutral. If I'm in the drops, it depends but if I'm forward I will point my toes more and turn a higher rpm. On really steep grades I'm forward and I drop my heal. So it depends. Generally though I don't think about it. Just do what feels right. Saddle height will have some bearing on what your ankle does. As AJ said, within the pro peleton there are all kinds of pedal stokes. They all seem to get down the road just fine.
#9
your god hates me



Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,901
Likes: 3,557
Bikes: 2016 Richard Sachs, 2010 Carl Strong, 2006 Cannondale Synapse
Cute little parlor trick that demonstrates one of the curiosities of bike geometry:
With your bike on a trainer, bring one pedal to the 12 o'clock position with your foot toe down, and relax; see which way your leg naturally falls.
Now, do it again, but this time with your foot level or slightly heel down; again, see which way your leg naturally falls.
Unless your saddle's in a really weird place, you will probably find that with a toe down position, you leg naturally falls backwards...whereas with a level foot or slightly heel down position, your leg will naturally fall forward.
And since the goal of cycling is to keep the cranks turning forwards...
With your bike on a trainer, bring one pedal to the 12 o'clock position with your foot toe down, and relax; see which way your leg naturally falls.
Now, do it again, but this time with your foot level or slightly heel down; again, see which way your leg naturally falls.
Unless your saddle's in a really weird place, you will probably find that with a toe down position, you leg naturally falls backwards...whereas with a level foot or slightly heel down position, your leg will naturally fall forward.
And since the goal of cycling is to keep the cranks turning forwards...
#10
Starting over
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,077
Likes: 4
From: Indianapolis
Bikes: 1990 Trek 1500; 2006 Gary Fisher Marlin; 2011 Cannondale Synapse Alloy 105; 2012 Catrike Trail
This is my opinion. It's nothing more than that:
I'm firmly convinced that the best ankle angles throughout the stroke are the ones that happen for you naturally, without thinking about it. Consciously ankling* has been demonstrated (by Italian coaches) to be not only ineffective as a means of adding force to the pedal stroke, but has also led to injuries.
* As I define it (there's some controversy about the term), ankling is consciously pushing your toes down on the downstroke to try to add power, and dropping your heel as you near the top of the upstroke so you're better positioned to push down again with the toes on the next cycle. This is different from the practice of "scraping mud off your shoe" at the bottom of the stroke, which is more about using your whole leg to try to apply even force all around the stroke, a technique that can actually be effective.
I'm firmly convinced that the best ankle angles throughout the stroke are the ones that happen for you naturally, without thinking about it. Consciously ankling* has been demonstrated (by Italian coaches) to be not only ineffective as a means of adding force to the pedal stroke, but has also led to injuries.
* As I define it (there's some controversy about the term), ankling is consciously pushing your toes down on the downstroke to try to add power, and dropping your heel as you near the top of the upstroke so you're better positioned to push down again with the toes on the next cycle. This is different from the practice of "scraping mud off your shoe" at the bottom of the stroke, which is more about using your whole leg to try to apply even force all around the stroke, a technique that can actually be effective.
#11
Senior Member


Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 5,585
Likes: 122
From: Tampa, Florida
Bikes: 2017 Colnago C-RS, 2012 Colnago Ace, 2010 Giant Cypress hybrid
My Retul fitter told me that it is best to have the foot level throughout the pedal stroke, which is natural for me to do. I have tried heal down and toe down, but seem to have problems and always end up with the foot being level.
__________________
HCFR Cycling Team
Ride Safe ... Ride Hard ... Ride Daily
2017 Colnago C-RS
2012 Colnago Ace
2010 Giant Cypress
HCFR Cycling Team
Ride Safe ... Ride Hard ... Ride Daily
2017 Colnago C-RS
2012 Colnago Ace
2010 Giant Cypress
#12
Due to the requirement that I must be able to put my feet down flat footed my feet are flat footed when I ride my Cruiser.
__________________
My preferred bicycle brand is.......WORKSMAN CYCLES
I dislike clipless pedals on any city bike since I feel they are unsafe.
Originally Posted by krazygluon
Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred, which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?
My preferred bicycle brand is.......WORKSMAN CYCLES
I dislike clipless pedals on any city bike since I feel they are unsafe.
Originally Posted by krazygluon
Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred, which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?
#13
Senior Member



Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 6,746
Likes: 5,366
From: Minneapolis
Bikes: 2022 Salsa Beargrease Carbon Deore 11, 2020 Salsa Warbird GRX 600, 2020 Canyon Ultimate CF SLX disc 9.0 Di2, 2020 Catrike Eola, 2016 Masi cxgr, 2011, Felt F3 Ltd, 2010 Trek 2.1, 2009 KHS Flite 220
I'm still moving towards an improved pedal stroke (see earlier threads I started on my progress), but I find that nearly level works best for turning good circles. I had a bike fitter warn me against too much ankling as being tiring. I don't really buy that, but I've found my stroke to evolve to just a small amount of ankling during normal riding. But that's just me, perhaps. On short hills I sometimes move to the back of the saddle and have my heels pointed down, but that's definitely not a normal stroke for me. Sometimes a little variation is a good thing.
#14
Starting over
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,077
Likes: 4
From: Indianapolis
Bikes: 1990 Trek 1500; 2006 Gary Fisher Marlin; 2011 Cannondale Synapse Alloy 105; 2012 Catrike Trail
That's something I'll do occasionally when I'm tiring on a climb. It kind of turns each pedal stroke into a mini-leg-press or squat, and can bring some welcome short-term power (and a little relief) to the task.
#15
Senior Member

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,987
Likes: 709
From: Boulder County, CO
Bikes: '80 Masi Gran Criterium, '12 Trek Madone, early '60s Frejus track
Jacques Anquetil was a toe-pointer. Eddy Merckx was a heal-dropper. And while most of today's top pros pedal with level foot, Tom Boonen's stroke always struck me as one of the clearest examples of this.
I tsay go with whatever works for you, just make sure your position on the bike works with it.
I tsay go with whatever works for you, just make sure your position on the bike works with it.
#17
Senior Member

Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,548
Likes: 797
From: Middle of da Mitten
Bikes: Trek 7500, RANS V-Rex, Optima Baron, Velokraft NoCom, M-5 Carbon Highracer, Catrike Speed
IMHO, foot angle should be neutral. Hang your feet off the side of your bed and relax. That's the neutral angle. I use a teeny bit of ankle flex to help smooth my circles. Too much toe-point and you're running a greater risk of Achilles injuries.
#18
Senior Member

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 7,124
Likes: 111
From: Huntington Beach, CA
Bikes: Cervelo Prodigy
This might be difficult to visualize, but with my flat feet, I find it better to create the arch that's missing. Not even my hard plastic molded orthotics really help to maintain that arch. In doing this, the distribution of the power on the down stroke is more "even". That is, the outer edge of my feet and going across to the ball of my feet touch the speedplay pedals "just right". By this, I mean compared with a flat foot approach, I get more perceived power from that down stroke.
From this and as a natural consequence, my feet are pointed slightly down. Another thing and maybe this is in the realm of bio mechanics, it seems that too much flexing of the feet and ankles may be inefficient, a loss of energy.
From this and as a natural consequence, my feet are pointed slightly down. Another thing and maybe this is in the realm of bio mechanics, it seems that too much flexing of the feet and ankles may be inefficient, a loss of energy.
#19
Senior Member

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 4,987
Likes: 709
From: Boulder County, CO
Bikes: '80 Masi Gran Criterium, '12 Trek Madone, early '60s Frejus track
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Koobazaur
General Cycling Discussion
50
04-30-12 08:01 PM






