Is it better to have the clips more towards the toe? does it produce more power that way? The LBS said it doesnt matter but i thought that you get more leverage further away from your ankle which is the fulcrum point...??? no?

Someone can (and will) correct me if I'm wrong, but you produce more power with the cleats further back, not further forward. Your muscles to move your foot up/down aren't nearly as powerful as your calves/quads moving up and down.

I don't know if that is actually the case, but it feels that way for me. When I put the cleats too far forward, my heel drops below my toe when I pedal hard because I can't hold it flat without a lot of effort. I try to center the pedal spindle on the ball of my foot so that I don't feel that my foot is being pitched up or down.

Woudn't they be placed according to what is best for your body ergonomically?

Yeah I'm pretty sure you're wrong, your calves move your foot down.

some riders are starting to place the cleats towards the center of the foot for more power. it's not ideal for all riders but it works for some.
https://www.trainingbible.com/joesblo...-position.html

I was taught the ball of the foot is the best place, or just behind

Once upon a time, I had a blog nobody read and it took a lot of time to put together, so I took it down. I did do quite a bit of research on this topic and wrote an article on this for it, though.

In the studies I could find, no statistical difference in VO2 was found for different cleat placements. Looking at the individual data points, subjects trended in every direction (including randomly); some seemed to distinctly prefer it, some did much worse, some were all over the place in different trials. The authors did point out, though, that the subjects were accustomed to having the cleat near the ball of the foot, while they had virtually no practice with the cleat further back. So, they wondered whether the subjects would be better with the cleats further back once they became accustomed to it.

The only study I found that found a measurable advantage to having the cleat placed further back was, as I found by investigating the authors, later retracted.

The theory behind putting the cleat further back is that it takes some burden off of the gastrocnemius and soleus. physical therapists will recommend a rearward cleat position for people with achilles or calf problems. EMG studies have found these to provide about 7% of the power output in cycling. When EMG's were done on people with a rearward cleat position, the EMG's of the upper leg didn't change significantly, while those of the calf decreased. Since the power output (and VO2) stayed the same, it was hypothesized that the vastus intermedius might be responsible for taking up the slack (this muscle was not measurable by surface EMG).

You will hear people point to ultracyclists who have the cleat under the heel. There are forces other than performance here, though; a lot of the challenge of RAAM is just being in the saddle for so long. I have a friend who has ridden in RAAM and been intimately involved with the UMCA for some time, and he confirmed my suspicion that these guys mostly jammed their cleats back to avoid hot spots. They'll move them all around to accomplish this. Whatever keeps you going. This practice has also decreased with the use of better pedal platforms (not platform pedals...) and stiffer shoes.

Essentially, I think this is one of those things you just have to try. Like any element of bike fit, personal preference and anatomy vary. I tried moving them to the arch, and couldn't get used to it. It just felt too awkward when standing, and my stroke felt less articulate.

Foot size is another confounding variable; the distance from the insertion of the Achilles to the ball varies with foot length. Because of this, having my cleats under the ball of my size 13 foot is different from my girlfriend having them under her size 8. Logically, mine should be relatively further back.

I experimented with cleat placement a while back.

Further forward - more calves. More snap, less power, more speed.

Since I tend to cramp in calves, I moved back.

Further rear - more hamstrings. Less snap, more steady power, less top end speed.

Since I tend to cramp in hamstrings, I moved it forward a bit.

I'm slightly behind the ball of the foot now, delicately balanced regarding cramping.

Purely unscientific info.

cdr

Excessive toeing causes keen pain!

I've also done some messing around with cleat position and I always end up back at the recommended "ball of foot over the center of the pedal spindle" guideline.

You might as well try it and see for yourself. Just don't make the move too radical or you might injure yourself.

Just do what's comfortable for you. I push my cleats as far forward as possible on my shoe, but I know that's unusual. It's just what feels right for me based on how my body is built. To look for theoretical gains in efficiency outside your natural comfort zone seems like folly to me.

But if several positions are equally comfortable to you.... I dunno.

tadawdy,

I messed around with this as well, and have always ended up with the ball of my foot just slightly behind the spindle center. The only major difference I've ever felt was that ahead of or behind my optimum I wasn't as smooth. Never really noted a significant power difference (pre power meter days).

The way I look at it is that the Gastroc/Soleus system is more of a coupling or spring between the "big" muscles and the pedal than a power source. Primarly smoothing out the transition areas in the pedal stroke. Fore/aft is just tuning response of the spring/shock. Im not an exercise physiologist but I beleive this is similar to the function of the calf walking or running. It's usually in an Eccentric or Isometric contraction.