I was just watching a "beyond Diet" advertisement that was preaching eating fats and less harmful carbs as a way to burn calories faster. Seems like on distance rides it would lead to a quicker breakdown point.

As a way to manage diabetes, it really can't be beat. The foods I eat now are more balanced and better for me than what I was eating before, and my health has not been this good in over 20 years. So while I'm also no physiologist, I'd have to say (for me) it's been a great idea.

Most of those dangers are for high protein. I'd have to agree that going heavy on protein might not be great. I, for one, stay in ketosis using lots of fats. My cholesterol numbers have not been this good in over a decade and I get regular kidney checks (part of diabetes checkups) and things are working perfectly.

My reading tells me that cancer is a much bigger problem from a higher carb diet than a higher fat diet. All in all, I'm getting enough benefits and no detectable down side that I'm unlikely to change what I'm doing.


As far as the OP goes, the only thing I see that might be a problem is the low calorie part. If you are in ketosis from low calorie, you are starving. That does not sound like a great way to bike.

If he were in a starvation state, he probably did bonk after 35 flat miles.

This thread got me interested in the subject of low-carb diets and endurance athletes. I am trying to find out if there have been scientific studies in this area.

I saw this article on the science news Web site, Science Daily: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1217150506.htm . It is a summary of three different papers published by researchers at Arizona State University comparing ketogenic low-carb diets (KLC) with non-ketogenic low-carb (NLC) diets. Their research suggests the KLCs might have some negative health consequences. Their research also suggests KLCs may not provide enough energy for exercising:

Given the popularity of low-carb diets, I would bet that there has been more research in this area. I'm going to keep looking.

He likely started with depleted glycogen stores and rode at too high intensity. Low carb and high intensity don't mix.

Well this has become a lively discussion! From all I've read, this is a very divisive subject, akin to religion or politics. For every page/link one side uses to prove their point, there are others that disprove or clarify the suppositions.

For example, the
There is growing evidence that what we have been told for the last 40 years is incorrect and is likely the cause of the obesity and cardiac disease problem!

First, there is a clear link between high fat, cholesterol, and heart disease. The problem is there is absolutely NO evidence that high dietary fat CAUSES coronary heart disease. In fact, the evidence strongly suggests that a high carbohydrate diet is the cause. If you don't understand the metabolic relationship of sugars/starch, insulin, and fat, I suggest you read about it. To me, it all becomes quite clear at that point.

Indeed there are unhealty forms of ketosis, but there are also people who have survived quite well for decades on such diets with no ill effects. Consider the Inuit people. Despite a diet of almost exclusively fat and fish, and almost no carbs, they have almost NO cardiac disease. By the way, the Inuit feed the meat to the dogs. If they eat too much they get "rabbit sickness."

The African Masai people have a similar diet of milk, blood, and cows.

A high protein diet is, indeed very bad for the kidneys. And for someone in ketosis, it causes the rabbit sickness mentioned above.


My reason for this diet that I want to get off of the BP meds and statin. I also have a high inflamation level due to oxydative stress. All of these symptoms are addressed by a LCHF diet. I'm already off the bp meds, and I just stopped the statins. I'm quite certain that my next blood test my cholesterol will still be down, as will my c-reactive protein. Fat metabolism is uses only 70% of the oxygen of carbs. That's why at 90% hr max I was breathing normally.

And there is no lactose buildup in Ketosis. The reason is that fully keto-adapted muscles efficiently metabolize lactic acid in the absence of glucose.

I think it was beastrider who said in his post "I have enough with other medical issues..." Perhaps they are related to the current "high carb ,low fat" craze?

Hmm. I appreciate the sentiment, but I think one was flogged round the fleet, and given that the lashes were administered to the back, licking one's wounds would have been a challenge...

Bob,
Please use a doctor to monitor you if you don't already have one. I know there are different forms of putting or going into ketosis and some are helpful it sounds as if you are going to have problems. I do agree that this seems dangerous and I couldn't even think about doing this due to my digestive tract and endocrine system being wrecked from surgeries and MRSA. I had 2 kidney failures and my creatanine (sp) numbers are in the toilet. Just be careful, Iron Man Tyler needs you as do we here at BF.

Fat utilization/beta-oxidation of fatty acids is slower at providing energy than carb utilization/glycolysis. Therefore the ratio of carbs to fat utilization increases at higher exercise intensities. If you ride slowly enough, your body uses a high proportion of fat versus carbs, and it's estimated that you could ride a month off the energy in the body's fat stores (hypothetically only!).

Once the intensity of exercise is increased, the proportion of energy derived from carbs starts to go up to meet the increased rate of demand for energy. There is a limited amount of carbs stored in the form of glycogen in your muscles and in your liver. It is believed that your body has some sort of "glycostat" to keep the glycogen from dropping to a life threatening level (the brain requires glucose), and that's why your body bonks: to terminate high intensity exercise which is drawing the glycogen/carbs tank down too close to empty and forcing you back into burning your basically inexhaustible fat stores.

With endurance training, athletes can improve the speeds they can ride at the same carb to fat utilization ratio. Some people think you can train the utilization ratio thru adjustment of diet while exercising and/or at rest, but as seen time and again, the actual training program has the greatest magnitude of effect on performance; therefore I personally believe many people neglect to train well and dwell too much on factors which are more akin to icing on the cake or the cherry on top. What good is it to worry about having the most perfect cherry on top if you didn't work hard enough churning to make enough ice cream for the foundation of the ice cream sundae?

Thanks for the kind words and the concerns. Indeed nothing like this should be done without proper medical supervision, and each person, esp. most of us in this forum!

BTW, one of the levels we had to watch for Iron Man Tyler, due to his chemo induced kidney failure, was his creatine level. Who ever took him to clinic would text the rest of us his results for the visit. We used to call it Cr 8 9! Semper Fi!

Well I'm glad we have a history buff Brit to clarify my punishment! I feel better now...

My problems with the kidneys came about from 2 kidney failures following abdominal surgeries. Once a kidney gets damaged it doesn't recover is how my doctor explained it to me. Now all the meds I take are keeping things iffy for me. I can't have a CAT scan with contrast due to the creatine levels and my antibiotic regimen for the MRSA was changed due to the damage possibility from the vanco I was on.

How is Iron Man Tyler doing anywho?

Sorry to hear. Have your Dr explore quercetin, and don't just let him blow it off. There may be contraindications in your case, but he should be very clear. If he's wishy-washy, ask him to investigate it for you.

Thanks for asking about the Iron Man. He's doing great. Just got promoted to 3rd grade, his health is great, but he will need hearing aides due to permanent hearing damage from one of his chemos (cisplatin.) He also has a small gall stone.

Last Friday night he got to wear the new cycling kit we got him for his birthday in March. He was so proud, and he really looked the part. He's built like a cyclist.

We did the 14 mi Ft Lauderdale Critical Mass ride. He was my stoker on the tandem, and Nana rode her bike. He and I ride about 20 mi a week together on the tandem. We're training for a half metric for a local Livestrong Cancer ride in Oct.

Thanks for the tip Bob, I'll ask him about the quercetin. My Primary Care Physician isn't wishy-washy about anything. He is pretty aggressive and has seen me through both failures. Tell IronMan Tyler Semper-Fi for me.

Bill

Well, this whole thread might be for naught. My last ketostick seemed to indicate that I was no in ketosis. Either I got my insulin level up too high somehow, or i am fully keto-adapted, at which point urine no longer provides an accurate measurement of ketosis.

I'll know tomorrow on the ride. If I'm sucking wind at 85 - 90% hr, I'll know I've fallen off the wagon.

"I'm on a low calorie high fat diet"

What does this mean? Did you mean to write "low carb high fat?"

Or do you mean you are eating less than you used to, by some measured amount? How long have you done this?

If you aren't putting enough energy into your body, whether as fat, carbs or protein, then you can certainly bonk.

CARB. Sorry. Besides, it was hard to find low calorie fat. lol.

I've been on the plan for 3 weeks. Off the bp meds, stopped the statins. NOT high protein. That's bad for the kidneys.

I have used diets based on the Adkins principle in the past. Sometimes they have worked, sometimes not. I was never able to stay on them long. I am interested on how this works for you long term. Are you after rapid weight loss or do you plan on this being a life long regime? From the pic you don't appear to have any significant weight problem.

Have fun with the kids - they are a blast to have around. Sounds like he is a real trooper.

No weight "problem," I was technically overweight (5' 11", 175.) Also, I wanted to get off the BP and Cholesterol meds. So far, so good! Now at 165 bp down w/o meds. Off the statins.

If I can stay off at least the statins, I'll remain on the diet.

Wahoo! 62 hard mi today and no bonk! Still in ketosis. Was doing 90+ HR, hardly breathing over normal. Kept my HR at about 85% for most of the last part of the ride. Had a cramp at about 60 mi, but used to do that before anyway. Spun it out.

Nice job, how long did it take to do the 62?

Is there some reason you can't take electrolytes? If you're taking diuretics, electrolytes are the problem. But, they work at cross purposes to diuretics. Talk to the Doc. bk

3:32. going north was easy, but south was a bear. feeder bands for the storm up north. it was "uphill" all the way. kept my hr ar 85 pct.

off the meds. took some bwfore the ride. need to get more endurolytes.