Bonked again today! :^(
#76
Version 7.0


Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 13,844
Likes: 3,858
From: SoCa
Bikes: Road, Track, TT and Gravel
I don't know the details, but all the studies I have seen indicate that, while sub-maximal performance can be OK on a ketogenic diet, your top-end (VO2Max and above) performance is significantly less. A ketogenic diet may be useful for something but it isn't something you would use if you were racing or were concerned with performance.
It may be a bit of a misconception that you have no glycogen in your muscles on a ketogenic diet. Studies have found that on a ketogenic diet one has roughly half the muscle glycogen stores at the beginning of an exercise session but the body also adapts and ends up burning proportionately more fat during exercise. Glycogen still gets produced on a ketogenic diet through a different mechanism than when you consume carbohydrates.
It may be a bit of a misconception that you have no glycogen in your muscles on a ketogenic diet. Studies have found that on a ketogenic diet one has roughly half the muscle glycogen stores at the beginning of an exercise session but the body also adapts and ends up burning proportionately more fat during exercise. Glycogen still gets produced on a ketogenic diet through a different mechanism than when you consume carbohydrates.
#77
Soooooooooo.........
Your comparison is apples to oranges. Sorry.
__________________
My preferred bicycle brand is.......WORKSMAN CYCLES
I dislike clipless pedals on any city bike since I feel they are unsafe.
Originally Posted by krazygluon
Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred, which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?
My preferred bicycle brand is.......WORKSMAN CYCLES
I dislike clipless pedals on any city bike since I feel they are unsafe.
Originally Posted by krazygluon
Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred, which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?
#78
Senior Member
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,503
Likes: 42
From: Capitol Hill, Washington, DC
Bikes: Specialized Tricross Comp, Custom Steel Sport Touring, Specialized Turbo Vado 4.0 SL
Evolution does not work so quickly that whole populations (Inuit, Masai) shift over to radically different metabolisms in a few hundred or thousand years. To a large extent, what they can do, we can do.
#79
Senior Member

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 18,138
Likes: 324
Bikes: 2 many
I've been type 1 and biking for the past 8yrs. It can be a challenge before the ride, during the ride and after the ride. 
Then comes the day off after a strenuous ride and your body metab is going crazy because it's still cranked up but your insulin dose and diet remains the same. In short, (for me) it's like exercising when you are not. I've only had one 911 low and that was following a fast 30 last year and I didnt eat enough or quick enough to adjust, it was early in the season.

Then comes the day off after a strenuous ride and your body metab is going crazy because it's still cranked up but your insulin dose and diet remains the same. In short, (for me) it's like exercising when you are not. I've only had one 911 low and that was following a fast 30 last year and I didnt eat enough or quick enough to adjust, it was early in the season.
He exercises a lot, he runs, and rides, all the time. He says riding keeps him feeling better longer than running. ???
#80
Dharma Dog
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,073
Likes: 2
From: Vancouver, Canada
Bikes: Rodriguez Shiftless street fixie with S&S couplers, Kuwahara tandem, Trek carbon, Dolan track
Sorry if this has already been stated, but I skipped the last couple of pages. I just wanted to offer my two bits after 40 years of riding, racing, randonneuring, etc:
What has worked for this sample of 1 is the standard balanced diet according to what the government nutritionists have pretty much been repeating for years. My official Latin motto has always been, "medio tutissiumus ibis." Always take the middle path. Moderation in all things.
If you do a lot of cycling, what confounds diet is the corresponding efficiency one gains from all that riding. I have noticed that there are quite a few "overweight" riders out there who can still ride very well - hard, fast, and long. The only conclusion that explains this is that their bodies have become so efficient at cycling that they need less food, yet they keep eating the copious quantities their bodies have become used to. This could explain why eating less carbs and more fats appears to work. Your body no longer needs as many carbs; it just stores the extra as fat anyway.
I'm 6'1" and 175 lbs, and I have found that over the past few years, my body has become so efficient at cycling longer distances that I am able to go on long rides, on a standard "4 basic food groups" diet, without bonking, even if I tried. I did a couple of double centuries in California the last two weeks, and I started them without having breakfast. I wasn't even hungry at the first rest stop (but yes, I was pretty hungry at the last one! But nowhere near bonking!
So this is just to say that your body will look after you as long as you don't go to extremes. Yeah, riding a 3-week stage race is probably an extreme, but I don't think pro's adopt fad diets. They just eat very well. The human body is extremely good at adapting, so I think that the less you try to mess with it, the better.
Luis
What has worked for this sample of 1 is the standard balanced diet according to what the government nutritionists have pretty much been repeating for years. My official Latin motto has always been, "medio tutissiumus ibis." Always take the middle path. Moderation in all things.
If you do a lot of cycling, what confounds diet is the corresponding efficiency one gains from all that riding. I have noticed that there are quite a few "overweight" riders out there who can still ride very well - hard, fast, and long. The only conclusion that explains this is that their bodies have become so efficient at cycling that they need less food, yet they keep eating the copious quantities their bodies have become used to. This could explain why eating less carbs and more fats appears to work. Your body no longer needs as many carbs; it just stores the extra as fat anyway.
I'm 6'1" and 175 lbs, and I have found that over the past few years, my body has become so efficient at cycling longer distances that I am able to go on long rides, on a standard "4 basic food groups" diet, without bonking, even if I tried. I did a couple of double centuries in California the last two weeks, and I started them without having breakfast. I wasn't even hungry at the first rest stop (but yes, I was pretty hungry at the last one! But nowhere near bonking!
So this is just to say that your body will look after you as long as you don't go to extremes. Yeah, riding a 3-week stage race is probably an extreme, but I don't think pro's adopt fad diets. They just eat very well. The human body is extremely good at adapting, so I think that the less you try to mess with it, the better.
Luis
#81
Thread Starter
Legs; OK! Lungs; not!
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,096
Likes: 10
From: Coral Springs, FL
Bikes: ''09 Motobecane Immortal Pro (Yellow), '02 Diamondback Hybrid, '09 Lamborghini Viaggio, ''11 Cervelo P2
This has been a very interesting and informative and lively exchange. I believe discussions like this are what a forum like this is designed to host.
I really appreciate everyone's input, even those who have a strongly different opinion.
Will I remain on this program long term? I don't know. Since I am not a diabetic, I don't have to. But since I had high blood pressure ( just barely) and since my dr want's me on a statin, this offered a chance to perhaps get off these meds. If that proves to be the case, I will remain on this as long as I can. If it fails to get me off of meds, esp statins, then I won't bother.
The biggest problem with "getting out of ketosis" is hunger. Ketosis limits insulin production which triggers hunger, and fat is very satisfying, so you never get "really hungry" though the course of a day. And sugar and sweets don't beckon. Don't know if that's mental or a change in taste. But it is freeing, and makes it easier to stick to it.
But my wife and I have both decided that no matter what we will continue to limit our sugar/starch/carb intake.
I really appreciate everyone's input, even those who have a strongly different opinion.
Will I remain on this program long term? I don't know. Since I am not a diabetic, I don't have to. But since I had high blood pressure ( just barely) and since my dr want's me on a statin, this offered a chance to perhaps get off these meds. If that proves to be the case, I will remain on this as long as I can. If it fails to get me off of meds, esp statins, then I won't bother.
The biggest problem with "getting out of ketosis" is hunger. Ketosis limits insulin production which triggers hunger, and fat is very satisfying, so you never get "really hungry" though the course of a day. And sugar and sweets don't beckon. Don't know if that's mental or a change in taste. But it is freeing, and makes it easier to stick to it.
But my wife and I have both decided that no matter what we will continue to limit our sugar/starch/carb intake.
#82
There you go again, guessing why your opinion may be correct but not providing anything substantive. In Good Calories, Bad Calories, Gary Taubes describes a early 20th Century British group who happily and healthily lived for a year among the Inuit and adopted their all meat diet. Upon returning they accepted a Royal Society challenge to their assertions and did the same diet under controlled circumstances back in London. They stayed thin and fit despite weekly blood tests to catch out cheating.
Evolution does not work so quickly that whole populations (Inuit, Masai) shift over to radically different metabolisms in a few hundred or thousand years. To a large extent, what they can do, we can do.
Evolution does not work so quickly that whole populations (Inuit, Masai) shift over to radically different metabolisms in a few hundred or thousand years. To a large extent, what they can do, we can do.
I didn't know this was a damn test! 
Some people are sooooooooooooo picky!
__________________
My preferred bicycle brand is.......WORKSMAN CYCLES
I dislike clipless pedals on any city bike since I feel they are unsafe.
Originally Posted by krazygluon
Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred, which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?
My preferred bicycle brand is.......WORKSMAN CYCLES
I dislike clipless pedals on any city bike since I feel they are unsafe.
Originally Posted by krazygluon
Steel: nearly a thousand years of metallurgical development
Aluminum: barely a hundred, which one would you rather have under your butt at 30mph?







