Think someone is mad.
01-02-13, 04:34 AM
#26
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IMHO: That is a very dangerous stunt to try out. I have been riding and commuting all my life and I certainly could not even come close to completing that in one day. I believe it will cause many injuries like saddle sore cysts, strained muscles, over exersion etc. A very well trained professional athlete could do that on professional super light weight road bikes only. The average every day cyclist may be able to do it in 2 days with the proper equipment but certainly no mountain or commuter bikes.
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01-02-13, 05:32 AM
#27
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I think management will have an eye on those who sign on and finish. 
Other than that thought....what are they thinking??
Other than that thought....what are they thinking??
01-02-13, 07:01 AM
#28
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I did 150 miles in two days when I weighed around 250, much of the route was riverside towpath and gravel trails, and I was riding a mountain bike. We stopped on the first day because we'd reached our pre-booked overnight accommodation but most of us could have carried on without any great trouble.
01-02-13, 07:43 AM
#29
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Here's an analogy to consider: We get snow every year here in Canada and people can deal with it OK. But last week we got a record snowfall that pushed people past what they normally have to deal with. I got past things by breaking up the job over a three day period. Considering that involved moving about 10,000 cubic feet of snow by hand - I thought that was reasonable for my age and physical condition. Some poor fellow in Toronto tried to tackle whatever he had to deal with in one shot, suffered a coronary and died on the spot.
Thing to keep in mind here is that this is supposed to be a fun venture and nobody has anything to prove. Do whatever you can to keep it that way.
Thing to keep in mind here is that this is supposed to be a fun venture and nobody has anything to prove. Do whatever you can to keep it that way.
01-02-13, 08:00 AM
#30
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Definitely some serious training will be required but to say it's just not do-able is not true. On the 110 mile ride I did we set off early but took leisurely stops for breakfast, lunch and a couple of breaks to have a coffee and enjoy the views. We took about 13 hours, including all the breaks (lunch alone was a good hour).
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01-02-13, 08:14 AM
#31
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Here's an analogy to consider: We get snow every year here in Canada and people can deal with it OK. But last week we got a record snowfall that pushed people past what they normally have to deal with. I got past things by breaking up the job over a three day period. Considering that involved moving about 10,000 cubic feet of snow by hand - I thought that was reasonable for my age and physical condition. Some poor fellow in Toronto tried to tackle whatever he had to deal with in one shot, suffered a coronary and died on the spot.
Thing to keep in mind here is that this is supposed to be a fun venture and nobody has anything to prove. Do whatever you can to keep it that way.
Thing to keep in mind here is that this is supposed to be a fun venture and nobody has anything to prove. Do whatever you can to keep it that way.
01-02-13, 09:27 AM
#32
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I remember my first 180 (300K brevet) back in '82; turned out to be a lovely ride and got me started in the sport of ultra-cycling (though I was absolutely knackered at the finish!).
Rick / OCRR
01-02-13, 09:51 AM
#34
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While 180 miles in a day is possible, frankly, it doesn't sound like much fun to most people. Sure, with sufficient training, you'll get some of the group up to the level of making that distance. You will also see a number drop out before the training even gets serious, once they understand the level of commitment and time needed to reach that goal. Hell, even 60 miles a day for a poorly prepared rider could be daunting.
What would the terrain look like along the proposed route?
For that distance, with the wide disparity in riding ability/duration, what would sound like fun is riding this over 2 or even 3 days, with time for stories over drinks and a good dinner each evening. If you can have SAG support to carry the luggage, all the better.
As a side note, is this an officially sponsored company event? Here in the States, if this were official, the Company could face an unexpected workers' compensation exposure. I don't know wht, if anything, this translates to in the UK, but it is something worth considering.
Gotta say, this sounds like a half-baked idea. It might morph into something more feasible, but it might just as readily fall apart.
What would the terrain look like along the proposed route?
For that distance, with the wide disparity in riding ability/duration, what would sound like fun is riding this over 2 or even 3 days, with time for stories over drinks and a good dinner each evening. If you can have SAG support to carry the luggage, all the better.
As a side note, is this an officially sponsored company event? Here in the States, if this were official, the Company could face an unexpected workers' compensation exposure. I don't know wht, if anything, this translates to in the UK, but it is something worth considering.
Gotta say, this sounds like a half-baked idea. It might morph into something more feasible, but it might just as readily fall apart.
01-02-13, 11:27 AM
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I like the relay idea especially for a business enterprise which should always be promoting team spirit.
01-02-13, 11:56 AM
#36
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Is the ride part of a work related expectation? I've got to tell you, when I've worked places where managers suggested such ideas, I’ve never understood how they made sense, if they were in fact an expectation. While a cycling advocate and happy participant, I would decline to have anything to do with an idea like this. If, however, it is an “after work” activity with no expectation that people “should” participate, I’d speak truth as I saw it. That is, that this is a very challenging ride for untrained riders and might better be accomplished as you’ve suggested or in stages.
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01-02-13, 12:06 PM
#37
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Imo,
1. I'd be very careful about getting yourself involved with any "in-law" activities such as this. It's just asking to put yourself in a "no-win" situation (that you may never hear the end of).
2. This is the "Fifty Plus (50+)" forum and as such, I going to assume that some of your prospective riders are in their 50s (or older). If this is the case, I agree that you had better make darn sure that they either pass a prior physical or that they sign a waiver (I'd insist on a physical examination). This is extremely important.
3. Like you and/or others have mentioned, you will also need to make a judgment on the riding abilities of the participants and the road conditions that they will be traveling.
4. Also, like others have said, my guess is that one or more planners of this ride/stunt have done little other than to divide the trip distance by an exaggerated average pack speed (of maybe 15mph). There is a very good chance that at least some of the participants are going to experience mechanical breakdowns, physical issues, and various other problems along the way. Also keep in mind that the "pack" will be limited to the speed of the slowest riders (otherwise, the leaders and stragglers will end up being separated by a relatively large distance). Then there is the "need to use the bathroom" issue (i.e. is everyone going to stop and wait every time someone needs to use the restroom?
5. Running it as a "relay" and/or using an appropriate number of "chase vehicles" will, as others have mentioned, be of great help. Even then, completing such a trip/stunt with more than 5-10 riders would be quite an accomplishment for most bicycle enthusiasts.
6. You should avoid participating in this trip/stunt at all costs if you feel that it is being staged as a "competition" and/or some sort of "bragging rights" game. Building and/or improving "teamwork" is one thing. Creating an atmosphere of so-called "winners and losers" is another.
1. I'd be very careful about getting yourself involved with any "in-law" activities such as this. It's just asking to put yourself in a "no-win" situation (that you may never hear the end of).
2. This is the "Fifty Plus (50+)" forum and as such, I going to assume that some of your prospective riders are in their 50s (or older). If this is the case, I agree that you had better make darn sure that they either pass a prior physical or that they sign a waiver (I'd insist on a physical examination). This is extremely important.
3. Like you and/or others have mentioned, you will also need to make a judgment on the riding abilities of the participants and the road conditions that they will be traveling.
4. Also, like others have said, my guess is that one or more planners of this ride/stunt have done little other than to divide the trip distance by an exaggerated average pack speed (of maybe 15mph). There is a very good chance that at least some of the participants are going to experience mechanical breakdowns, physical issues, and various other problems along the way. Also keep in mind that the "pack" will be limited to the speed of the slowest riders (otherwise, the leaders and stragglers will end up being separated by a relatively large distance). Then there is the "need to use the bathroom" issue (i.e. is everyone going to stop and wait every time someone needs to use the restroom?
5. Running it as a "relay" and/or using an appropriate number of "chase vehicles" will, as others have mentioned, be of great help. Even then, completing such a trip/stunt with more than 5-10 riders would be quite an accomplishment for most bicycle enthusiasts.
6. You should avoid participating in this trip/stunt at all costs if you feel that it is being staged as a "competition" and/or some sort of "bragging rights" game. Building and/or improving "teamwork" is one thing. Creating an atmosphere of so-called "winners and losers" is another.
01-02-13, 12:24 PM
#38
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A good team building exercise. Let people sign on for as much as they think they can do. It kind of replicates the process of creating a product, step by step.
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01-02-13, 02:55 PM
#40
Time for a change.
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No big deal--But by posting here I may have a case to put to the manager that wants to do it all in one day.
He can start with the first riders and attempt to stay with them as the relay progresses.
He can start with the first riders and attempt to stay with them as the relay progresses.
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01-02-13, 03:12 PM
#42
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The thing is, this is not going to happen next week. How long do you have to get them in some semblence of shape? Six months?
There's a lot of improvement that can be made in six months. A lot will depend on an appropriate program that (a) is effective at improving fitness and endurance (b) meets their time contraints and (c) keeps them motivated.
It may evolve OK, or not. It depends on who is in charge and what their expectations are.
But the relay idea is as effective in just about all respects because it bonds employees, there is an equal level of self-achievement (that is, no-one is likely to not complete the allotted distance and therefore feel a failure, and hence not be a part of the group bonding), and the image of the company may be enhanced by complete success (or at least not affected negatively by demotivated participants, people taking a week or more off afterwards to recover, and the real possibility of crashing, injury or death).
I can see both sides of the discussion.
There's a lot of improvement that can be made in six months. A lot will depend on an appropriate program that (a) is effective at improving fitness and endurance (b) meets their time contraints and (c) keeps them motivated.
It may evolve OK, or not. It depends on who is in charge and what their expectations are.
But the relay idea is as effective in just about all respects because it bonds employees, there is an equal level of self-achievement (that is, no-one is likely to not complete the allotted distance and therefore feel a failure, and hence not be a part of the group bonding), and the image of the company may be enhanced by complete success (or at least not affected negatively by demotivated participants, people taking a week or more off afterwards to recover, and the real possibility of crashing, injury or death).
I can see both sides of the discussion.
01-02-13, 03:16 PM
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I think the relay path is a good idea. I think there would be greater participation and enthusiasm if each only has to do a 30 or 40 mile ride. You can also have teams of pairs and a trio to ride with each other for each part of the relay(rather than a lone rider doing 20(which isn't that big an issue unless there is a good amount of climbing). 180 miler would be a great accomplishment, but getting everyone of them to train religiously for such a ride would be tough.
01-02-13, 03:23 PM
#44
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My Son-in-Laws company has two branches. One in Eastbourne and one is Bath. It is a distance of 180 miles apart and one of the managers has the bright idea of doing a ride between the two branches---IN ONE DAY. To me that is the mad part as although I know there are a couple of "Keen" cyclists amongst them-only two of them have ever done a ride of 100 miles amongst the 20 that have shown interest.
I have suggested a couple of training rides to show the one that is planning the ride that it will not be possible for most of them to do the ride in one day. I know that in theory it should be possible- 180 / 12 mph- and it could be done in daylight but Physically it would finish most of them. My suggestion for the first training ride is just a 30 miler across the marshes so it would be flattish but would sort those that will have to do a lot of training to get fit. Or buy new bikes to be able to average 12mph as I know several of the bikes are "WallyMart" specials. This will show the competence of the "Team" to the one that has suggested the ride and that it is a foolhardy idea. The second ride will be up a few slopes and around 40 miles and will involve around 4,000 ft of climbing and being a circular route will find other things like Headwinds and Traffic.
I think the idea is not possible unless you are a competent century rider and you have plenty of gumption to be able to keep going when it hurts. There are only 3 or 4 accomplished riders amongst them and even they have said it is not possible.
So I have made a suggestion in that it be done as a relay. Start very early and have 2 3 or 4 riders at a time. Those riders can be matched to each other on speed and if the strong riders take on the hilly bits leaving those that just want to participate on the easier sections. I reckon that it would still take around 15 hours to complete but by using the relay system- then all would be able to take part in the hair brained scheme that someone has conceived.
So what are your thoughts? If you are just the average rider- how would you feel about attempting a ride like this? And if you are a double Centurion- do you agree that 180 miles in one day is doomed for failure?
I need your input as you can guess who will be training the weaker riders over the next 6 months And I don't like failing.
I have suggested a couple of training rides to show the one that is planning the ride that it will not be possible for most of them to do the ride in one day. I know that in theory it should be possible- 180 / 12 mph- and it could be done in daylight but Physically it would finish most of them. My suggestion for the first training ride is just a 30 miler across the marshes so it would be flattish but would sort those that will have to do a lot of training to get fit. Or buy new bikes to be able to average 12mph as I know several of the bikes are "WallyMart" specials. This will show the competence of the "Team" to the one that has suggested the ride and that it is a foolhardy idea. The second ride will be up a few slopes and around 40 miles and will involve around 4,000 ft of climbing and being a circular route will find other things like Headwinds and Traffic.
I think the idea is not possible unless you are a competent century rider and you have plenty of gumption to be able to keep going when it hurts. There are only 3 or 4 accomplished riders amongst them and even they have said it is not possible.
So I have made a suggestion in that it be done as a relay. Start very early and have 2 3 or 4 riders at a time. Those riders can be matched to each other on speed and if the strong riders take on the hilly bits leaving those that just want to participate on the easier sections. I reckon that it would still take around 15 hours to complete but by using the relay system- then all would be able to take part in the hair brained scheme that someone has conceived.
So what are your thoughts? If you are just the average rider- how would you feel about attempting a ride like this? And if you are a double Centurion- do you agree that 180 miles in one day is doomed for failure?
I need your input as you can guess who will be training the weaker riders over the next 6 months And I don't like failing.
First you need to look at a route, is it possible without going on Motorways, a quick look at Google maps, makes it look possible, but Google maps is not known for it's accuracy outside the United States, it's better then Apple Maps, but that's not saying much.
Second, you need to look at your volunteers bicycles, anyone with a proper road bike (even an old one), has possibilities, anyone with a BSO, take a pass.
Third, you need to look at your volunteers physical condition, if they are in good shape, then they are possible, the 5 stone overweight, 50+ guy, uh, no.
Fourth, you need to look at your volunteers families, anyone with a child under the age of three, forget it.
Fifth, you need to look at your volunteers, job. If it's a guy who works regular hours, okay, if he works 60+ hours a week, he will not be able to make the time commitment.
Now take the guys you have left, drive the route, look for the steepest hill along the way, have them ride back about 10 miles, then U turn and ride back, so the last thing they get to is that hill. This is the last test, if anyone makes it, they have a chance.
Now they need a bike computer, they need to start at 10 miles per ride, riding 4 times a week, with one of the rides on the weekend. The weekend ride, gets 5 miles added on, every week, from now until August. They will then be able to handle 180 miles, easy.
01-02-13, 10:44 PM
#45
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Hire a sag bus. And, just to taunt them, charge a rate for every mile they don't do.
(And the sag bus might actually be a lot of fun)
(And the sag bus might actually be a lot of fun)
01-03-13, 01:27 AM
#46
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Hire a stretched limo for the sag bus and don't penalize anyone, just let them get out and continue riding once they've had a rest. Makes the whole trip possible, makes parts of the trip fun and there's plenty of opportunity for team building.
01-03-13, 03:20 AM
#47
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It can be done, maybe....
First you need to look at a route, is it possible without going on Motorways, a quick look at Google maps, makes it look possible, but Google maps is not known for it's accuracy outside the United States, it's better then Apple Maps, but that's not saying much.
Second, you need to look at your volunteers bicycles, anyone with a proper road bike (even an old one), has possibilities, anyone with a BSO, take a pass.
Third, you need to look at your volunteers physical condition, if they are in good shape, then they are possible, the 5 stone overweight, 50+ guy, uh, no.
Fourth, you need to look at your volunteers families, anyone with a child under the age of three, forget it.
Fifth, you need to look at your volunteers, job. If it's a guy who works regular hours, okay, if he works 60+ hours a week, he will not be able to make the time commitment.
Now take the guys you have left, drive the route, look for the steepest hill along the way, have them ride back about 10 miles, then U turn and ride back, so the last thing they get to is that hill. This is the last test, if anyone makes it, they have a chance.
Now they need a bike computer, they need to start at 10 miles per ride, riding 4 times a week, with one of the rides on the weekend. The weekend ride, gets 5 miles added on, every week, from now until August. They will then be able to handle 180 miles, easy.
First you need to look at a route, is it possible without going on Motorways, a quick look at Google maps, makes it look possible, but Google maps is not known for it's accuracy outside the United States, it's better then Apple Maps, but that's not saying much.
Second, you need to look at your volunteers bicycles, anyone with a proper road bike (even an old one), has possibilities, anyone with a BSO, take a pass.
Third, you need to look at your volunteers physical condition, if they are in good shape, then they are possible, the 5 stone overweight, 50+ guy, uh, no.
Fourth, you need to look at your volunteers families, anyone with a child under the age of three, forget it.
Fifth, you need to look at your volunteers, job. If it's a guy who works regular hours, okay, if he works 60+ hours a week, he will not be able to make the time commitment.
Now take the guys you have left, drive the route, look for the steepest hill along the way, have them ride back about 10 miles, then U turn and ride back, so the last thing they get to is that hill. This is the last test, if anyone makes it, they have a chance.
Now they need a bike computer, they need to start at 10 miles per ride, riding 4 times a week, with one of the rides on the weekend. The weekend ride, gets 5 miles added on, every week, from now until August. They will then be able to handle 180 miles, easy.
If you've got people who might get separated everyone needs a route sheet, everyone needs to keep up with where they are on the route sheet, and someone has to generate the route, verify the route (ideally riding it to check it for bike suitability) etc. Then you've got potential issues of whether to take a short route over a huge hill or a long route to go around it, just how fast/busy a road needs to be before it's deemed unsuitable for the group, etc. If you (the OP) proposes a route and the riders hate it you've got another way they can criticise you for how badly you managed the whole thing.
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01-03-13, 08:15 AM
#48
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First: Why would anyone do something so crazy just because somebody challenged them to do it? It sounds like the scene from 'A Christmas Story' where they "Double Dare' the kid to lick a metal lamp post on a freezing cold morning...
Second: Why would they agree to pay a fine for every mile they don't complete?
Who is the winner in this deal? All I see are losers...
01-03-13, 09:35 AM
#49
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Yea, they're mad, but in a good way.
In my experience, if someone can ride X miles/km comfortably, they can ride 2X in reasonable discomfort. So if the goal is to ride 180 miles in a single day, they should train to work themselves up to a comfortable 90 miles in a day under similar terrain/weather conditions.
The relay sounds like fun, actually.
In my experience, if someone can ride X miles/km comfortably, they can ride 2X in reasonable discomfort. So if the goal is to ride 180 miles in a single day, they should train to work themselves up to a comfortable 90 miles in a day under similar terrain/weather conditions.
The relay sounds like fun, actually.
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01-03-13, 10:49 AM
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Management decisions like this -just makes you wonder!!!!
Reminds me in a little way about the American commanders in Vietnam ordering Slick pilots to missions beyond their machine's capability. " I'm not interested in your opinion I said do it!" That thinking got more than air crew killed.
Reminds me in a little way about the American commanders in Vietnam ordering Slick pilots to missions beyond their machine's capability. " I'm not interested in your opinion I said do it!" That thinking got more than air crew killed.