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Moulton query

Old 08-17-16, 09:24 PM
  #26  
BruceMetras
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Moultons are handmade in England.. building/brazing the steel chromoly frames is very labor intensive .. if you get a polished stainless model, an extraordinary amount of time and care is taken ... they sell every one that they build .. there is a generally a waiting period while a bike is built on a customer by customer basis.. the waiting period can be 3 months or more.. there are people who appreciate this type of attention and are more than willing to pay the going prices .. they are among the most comfortable bikes to ride, regardless of tire size ... when set up to race, they were very successful, to the point of being banned from some competitions.. they certainly are not to everyone's liking, and some can't see the value, but I think it speaks volumes that this small, factory operation has trouble keeping up with demand for their product which has spanned 50+years from their introduction.
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Old 08-17-16, 10:14 PM
  #27  
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it's a shame that you had to explain that but, thanks for doing it anyway.
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Old 08-17-16, 10:19 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by smallwheeler View Post
it's a shame that you had to explain that but, thanks for doing it anyway.
As far as i am concerned, it was not necessary at all. It's not anything new or previously unknown. And it does not change my calculus in the least. I can afford a Moulton, but no, they will not be getting my money. The only 'shame' was the implication that some of us don't quite have the high-brow, refined sensibilities that your Excellencies enjoy.

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Old 08-17-16, 10:46 PM
  #29  
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well, you did say this:

Moulton, Schmoulton. Where do they get off charging that kind of money! And then they wonder why small manufacturing in the West is moribund.
which conveys ignorance.

bruce is a very knowledgeable guy and also a nice man so, i'm sure his post was intended to be helpful.
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Old 08-17-16, 11:11 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Abu Mahendra View Post
I can afford a Moulton...
If you REALLY could, then you would buy one. The very fact that you decide not to, says that you actually can't, plus your choice of words say that you are quite peeved about this fact. At least I'm honest about it. I can't afford one, at least not at the moment.
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Old 08-17-16, 11:25 PM
  #31  
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it was a reply to you, and a reaction to your post, not to his. We could have left it with his post, but you had to, as you are often wont to do, stir the pot. my beef was not with him. it is with you.

Originally Posted by smallwheeler View Post
well, you did say this:



which conveys ignorance.

bruce is a very knowledgeable guy and also a nice man so, i'm sure his post was intended to be helpful.
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Old 08-17-16, 11:38 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by jur View Post
You won't need to worry about bobbing. The rear suspension is quite stiff and small travel so it smooths out smaller road bumps but no bobbing.

The front does go up and down, but that is also not too big, and besides it isn't sapping much energy according to my current understanding. It may even help (again according to my current understanding).

Thanks for the inputs.

I may still try one out in future before deciding.
In no hurry.

I had a nice foldie that had a rear elastomer suspension.
On the flats, it was a nice ride.
But if I pushed hard for speed or climbed, the bobbing was a PITA.
Later on, I tightened the suspension to the max to reduce the bobbing.
It improved, but I can still feel the reduction in pedal force to actual movement.
Thats why I'm apprehensive about rear sus bikes (birdy, moulton).
But perhaps they are better thought out in this respect.


Still have to try one out in the end.
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Old 08-18-16, 07:32 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by jur View Post
You won't need to worry about bobbing. The rear suspension is quite stiff and small travel so it smooths out smaller road bumps but no bobbing.

The front does go up and down, but that is also not too big, and besides it isn't sapping much energy according to my current understanding. It may even help (again according to my current understanding).
There is also a dual rate 'race spring' available for the front, and of course the ability to adjust the friction dampners (in practice, I run my bikes pretty compliant) .. much like the difference between a rigid frame motorcycle and a full suspended one, you are able to go faster in more comfort on less than perfect roads with a Moulton ..
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Old 08-18-16, 10:31 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by jur View Post
You won't need to worry about bobbing. The rear suspension is quite stiff and small travel so it smooths out smaller road bumps but no bobbing.
Wasn't that Jan Heine's complaint?
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Old 08-18-16, 01:24 PM
  #35  
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Could the OP plse explain what this thread is actuallu about? First:

Originally Posted by Abu Mahendra View Post
Looking at Moulton, and wondering what series satisifies the following requirements:.....

....... Is the TSR series the one I want?
Then:

Originally Posted by Abu Mahendra View Post
.... Moulton, Schmoulton. Where do they get off charging that kind of money! And then they wonder why small manufacturing in the West is moribund. F that.
Further:

Originally Posted by Abu Mahendra View Post
.....I can afford a Moulton, but no, they will not be getting my money.[/B] The only 'shame' was the implication that some of us don't quite have the high-brow, refined sensibilities that your Excellencies enjoy.
More envy?
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Old 08-18-16, 01:34 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by invisiblehand View Post
Wasn't that Jan Heine's complaint?
i just read an article wherein heine demonstrates that a suspension fork or flexy steel fork reduces energy loss even on smooth surfaces.
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Old 08-18-16, 02:43 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by smallwheeler View Post
i just read an article wherein heine demonstrates that a suspension fork or flexy steel fork reduces energy loss even on smooth surfaces.
Here is recent summary on the BQ blog

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2016/...ension-losses/

At some point -- I have the article someplace ... probably at work where I share the magazines with some colleagues -- he test rode a Moulton. I think a stainless steel 406 model and complained about the bounciness of the rear suspension.
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Old 08-18-16, 03:52 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by invisiblehand View Post
Here is recent summary on the BQ blog

https://janheine.wordpress.com/2016/...ension-losses/

At some point -- I have the article someplace ... probably at work where I share the magazines with some colleagues -- he test rode a Moulton. I think a stainless steel 406 model and complained about the bounciness of the rear suspension.
interesting stuff as always. thanks, 'hand.
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Old 08-18-16, 04:19 PM
  #39  
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You and Jur have already adjudicated that it it is clear case of Sour Grapes, right? What else is there to say? I don't buy everything I can afford. I was interested in something different in a frame for 406 wheels with v-brakes. I looked into a Moulton, but after getting a price quote, I don't see value in their TSR frame at $1,790 frame. Made-in-England, Made-in-Oregon, Made-in-XX place, or that the bike is one in a long line spanning back to half a century means nothing to me. And I will not pay for that. I don't own bikes to brag about or get satisfaction from how and where they were made, that it was made to my specification as the order came up on the queu, to belong to a tribe or cult, or how much they cost. I didn't say that I wasn't going to spend $1,790. I may still get a Reach which costs $200 more. I hinted that there were other competing interests more deserving in my estimation of my money (e.g. my 29"er build, a Bannard SR frame). That calculus still stands. You guys want a Moulton, you want to spend your money on one, buy all means, knock yourselves out. Over and out.


Originally Posted by badmother View Post
Could the OP plse explain what this thread is actuallu about? First:



Then:



Further:



More envy?

Last edited by Abu Mahendra; 08-18-16 at 04:28 PM.
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Old 08-18-16, 04:58 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Abu Mahendra View Post
You and Jur have already adjudicated that it it is clear case of Sour Grapes, right? What else is there to say? I don't buy everything I can afford. I was interested in something different in a frame for 406 wheels with v-brakes. I looked into a Moulton, but after getting a price quote, I don't see value in their TSR frame at $1,790 frame. Made-in-England, Made-in-Oregon, Made-in-XX place, or that the bike is one in a long line spanning back to half a century means nothing to me. And I will not pay for that. I don't own bikes to brag about or get satisfaction from how and where they were made, that it was made to my specification as the order came up on the queu, to belong to a tribe or cult, or how much they cost. I didn't say that I wasn't going to spend $1,790. I may still get a Reach which costs $200 more. I hinted that there were other competing interests more deserving in my estimation of my money (e.g. my 29"er build, a Bannard SR frame). That calculus still stands. You guys want a Moulton, you want to spend your money on one, buy all means, knock yourselves out. Over and out.
Boy you make a lot of noice...
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Old 08-18-16, 05:10 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by invisiblehand View Post
Wasn't that Jan Heine's complaint?
If it's the same test that I read, the bike that was used for that test was a well worn loaded tourer out of Seattle that had also been purchased used by the owner who had loaned it out for observations .. after the review, it was determined that the more complex hydrolastic sphere (not the simple rubber sphere found on the vast majority of Moultons) was not working properly.. the entire bike was sent back to England for repair/refurbishing as the bike had a lot of hard miles under its belt.. I don't know if a follow up test was ever done ... I also don't know if Jan is a masher or spinner.. generally the spinners are happier on Moultons than the mashers ..
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Old 08-18-16, 08:48 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by BruceMetras View Post
If it's the same test that I read, the bike that was used for that test was a well worn loaded tourer out of Seattle that had also been purchased used by the owner who had loaned it out for observations .. after the review, it was determined that the more complex hydrolastic sphere (not the simple rubber sphere found on the vast majority of Moultons) was not working properly.. the entire bike was sent back to England for repair/refurbishing as the bike had a lot of hard miles under its belt.. I don't know if a follow up test was ever done ... I also don't know if Jan is a masher or spinner.. generally the spinners are happier on Moultons than the mashers ..
AFAIK, there was only one review. I've read most of the issues.

It was definitely a well-loved and used bike. At the time, a Moulton representative was given a chance to respond and I don't recall much substance to it. To be clear, they didn't write anything ridiculous. It just sounded like their typical pitch rather than a detailed response. I also recall a note that Moulton techs were looking at the bike but never a follow up. Naturally, my memory is loaded with mistakes.

I believe Jan has a high cadence. He uses a 46-30 chainring crank. But given his PBP times, I'm pretty sure that he's cranking out some power in the back too.

FWIW, if I was riding more, I'd seriously consider getting a TSR with the 406 wheels.
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Old 08-18-16, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by smallwheeler View Post
interesting stuff as always. thanks, 'hand.
Anytime bud.
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Old 08-19-16, 07:38 AM
  #44  
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Can always join the Moulton facebook group for info, the guys who build them, write books on them, restore and have all the knowledge, info and history you could wish for and even quite a few that compete in road races and triathlons for their opinions.
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Old 08-19-16, 09:05 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by BruceMetras View Post
If it's the same test that I read, the bike that was used for that test was a well worn loaded tourer out of Seattle that had also been purchased used by the owner who had loaned it out for observations .. after the review, it was determined that the more complex hydrolastic sphere (not the simple rubber sphere found on the vast majority of Moultons) was not working properly.. the entire bike was sent back to England for repair/refurbishing as the bike had a lot of hard miles under its belt.. I don't know if a follow up test was ever done ... I also don't know if Jan is a masher or spinner.. generally the spinners are happier on Moultons than the mashers ..
From what I remember, Moulton fixed the bike for the owner but with the stipulation that it could not be tested again. I have always dreamed of owning a Moulton and this stipulation kind of put a damper on that dream.
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Old 08-19-16, 09:38 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by bmac.to View Post
From what I remember, Moulton fixed the bike for the owner but with the stipulation that it could not be tested again. I have always dreamed of owning a Moulton and this stipulation kind of put a damper on that dream.
If true, it would be very disappointing.
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