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Brompton - CHPT3 vs. Black Lacquer

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Brompton - CHPT3 vs. Black Lacquer

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Old 02-23-18, 05:02 PM
  #26  
berlinonaut
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Schlumpf Brompton variant of their mountain drive crank , on my M3L gives me a 2nd run through of the 3 BSR gears in Low range.
Costs a fortune, adds a fortune to the weight of the Brommi. Possibly not the first choice for someone who thinks about a 2speed ti bike and struggles with the price...
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Old 02-23-18, 05:30 PM
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To each their own , I have taller hills .. It will last a lifetime..

there is a 28 hole hubshell on S-A 4 speed IGH & narrow Axle .. , but its not in a factory option.. that would be a custom wheel

glad to get away from a derailleur drive train which is the 2 speed .. and how their BWR hub gets 6 speeds.

shifting down while stopped is great.. when you hit a stoplight in high gear

I initially bought a Custom made FD adapter-Mount, they are light, adds a bigger difference of gear ranges.. than 1 chainring..

New , gloss Black powdercoat, , will sell uses any Braze on Road FD.. U$D 90..

Run a double crank, without 'Greasy Finger' Shifting it.


..
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Old 02-23-18, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by berlinonaut View Post
...threads get read by many people, sometimes years later and thus a wrong statement as the one from avole may lead a lot of people in the wrong direction and, even worse, enhance itself as they will say "USB lights are better than dynamo lights, I read it in an expert's forum and nobody was in doubt" and others will listen and so on and so on. That's why I wrote a correction for people to be able to have a better foundation for judgement. Maybe it even helps the OP, too.
Yeah, I've heard this "recording for posterity for future generations" excuse for your walls of texts before. Nobody's going to make a lighting decision years from now based on this information because everything you've mentioned will be obsolete. It's all just noise.
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Old 02-25-18, 08:48 PM
  #29  
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Hi again... OP here...

Thanks for all the advice! OK, so I rode a few of them and think the 6 speeds are pretty darn useful, but I still can't get over the weight penalty of going with a 6 speed vs. a 2 speed. Unfortunately, the only CHPT3 one available is a 6 speed, not a 2-speed. The titanium bikes definitely feel lighter to pick up but honestly I don't notice a difference while riding them. I really love the black lacquer look but the CHPT3 bike is a looker too (maybe too blingy)? If the difference between the black lacquer 6 speed steel bike (black edition) and the CHPT3 was actually $900 due to pricing differences, would you go for it? I'm leaning towards saying no and just going with the black lacquer. Although I'm tempted to just go simple and get a titanium 2 speed (not black edition) so I have something super light weight. So from these, which would you choose?

1. Titanium 2 speed (not black edition) with fenders
2. Steel black lacquer Black edition 6 speed with fenders
3. CHPT3 bike (titanium) with no fenders

Also, I feel like the bike folds and stays put much better with the fenders. Thanks!
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Old 02-25-18, 09:06 PM
  #30  
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You said in post #1 it's hilly where you are. In post #29; six speed was useful.
So, I say go w/ 6 speed. Easier to go 6 to 2; than 2 to 6 if you decide in the future.
Same thing for ti option. If you can afford it; I'd go for it. Easy enough to change
the ti fork & rear triangle in the future. Just order the steel parts then swap. If you
get steel extremities now; I think it's harder to upgrade to ti since Brompton doesn't
want to sell ti parts by themselves.
2013 S6L-X; titanium/superlight option six speed, fenders, front luggage block, rear light:
2013 Brompton S6L-X by 1nterceptor, on Flickr
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Old 02-26-18, 01:51 AM
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Get the one you're really into. The 2-speed non-Black Edition ti bike may be the lightest and at a reasonable price, but I'm not sure you're going to love the looks or gearing. I love the looks of both other choices, and would be inclined towards the Black Lacquer, but the CHPT3 is also very cool. No fenders on that one, though, which would be a negative for me.
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Old 02-26-18, 07:01 AM
  #32  
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I would get a 6 speed all steel. Further research shows that aftermarket J&L ti fork weighs less than the Brompton one. Then there are several rear swingarm options in ti including disc brake versions. Ultimately if you replace everything with aftermarket parts you can have a light bike, but replacing standard Brompton ti parts seems a waste of money. It can be a nice project upgrading and coming from a heavier bike will be appreciated more.

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Old 02-26-18, 12:09 PM
  #33  
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I saw a Prototype, not made by Brompton, made by eliminating the hinges in the main frame tube and handlebar mast..

rear fold retained .. those 4 pieces gone, saved weight..

it was a Spanish company, that sells aftermarket stuff,, obviously custom..





....
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Old 02-26-18, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Joe Remi View Post
Get the one you're really into. The 2-speed non-Black Edition ti bike may be the lightest and at a reasonable price, but I'm not sure you're going to love the looks or gearing. I love the looks of both other choices, and would be inclined towards the Black Lacquer, but the CHPT3 is also very cool. No fenders on that one, though, which would be a negative for me.
Thanks. Yeah, I keep telling myself to be sensible and just get a basic non-black edition, but I know myself... I'll ride it more if I love the way it looks too. Right now I am leaning towards the black lacquer Black edition 6 speed. I can pretty much get it for $1875, whereas the CHPT3 version comes in over $2600... They also have an all black bike (Black Edition) in 6 speed for about $250 less than the black lacquer one but that darn black lacquer one looks so much nicer in person. Thanks for everyone's help!
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Old 02-26-18, 01:19 PM
  #35  
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You want the 6 speed. Ignore any advice that says otherwise.
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Old 02-26-18, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by 1nterceptor View Post
2013 S6L-X; titanium/superlight option six speed, fenders, front luggage block, rear light:
2013 Brompton S6L-X by 1nterceptor, on Flickr
According to Brompton a S6Lx with carrier block, the shortest seat post and w/o (!) lights weights 10,9kg and as far as I can judge this is realistic.

1. S-Typ 10,3kg 1089,00€
2. 6 Gang 920g 281,00€
3. Version L - Schutzbleche o. G.-Träger 371g 85,00€
4. Superlight Rahmen -740g 825,00€
10. Trägerblock, einzeln 93g 39,00€

Summe 10,9kg 2319,00€

So your bike seems to be lighter than normal for some reasons. What one can see already from your picture is that you have an aftermarket titanium seatpost that is much lighter than the factory steel version and furthermore get's rid of the pentaclip as well (~100 g saved alone through getting rid of that). You have a 3rd party saddle as well that may be lighter than stock and possibly some other bits in the non-visible area. So while it is easily possible to get a 6-speed to the 10kg mark it is clearly not what comes from the factory and in comparison to the 2-speed the 6-speed adds about as much weight as the ti version saves over the steel version.
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Old 02-26-18, 01:32 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by ttakata73 View Post
I would get a 6 speed all steel. Further research shows that aftermarket J&L ti fork weighs less than the Brompton one. Then there are several rear swingarm options in ti including disc brake versions. Ultimately if you replace everything with aftermarket parts you can have a light bike, but replacing standard Brompton ti parts seems a waste of money. It can be a nice project upgrading and coming from a heavier bike will be appreciated more.
The question is wether the quality of the J&L parts is at the same level as factory from Brompton. It does not seem to be cheaper and buying a steel to upgrade it to titanium with 3rd-party parts of unknown quality does seem a bit weird if there is a ti-version with known quality available from the factory for in the end less money.
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Old 02-26-18, 01:45 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Caliwild View Post
1. Titanium 2 speed (not black edition) with fenders
2. Steel black lacquer Black edition 6 speed with fenders
3. CHPT3 bike (titanium) with no fenders

Also, I feel like the bike folds and stays put much better with the fenders. Thanks!
That's correct. Therefore I'd go for 1. or add fenders to 3. if it was a 2-speed. It should be no issue to order a CHPT 2-speed or a black-raw 2-speed. It will just need a couple of weeks of lead time. Regarding the CHPT3 you should be aware that you pay for the looks - technically it is the same as a ordinary S2lx with special color, an upgraded saddle and black edition parts. The CHPT3 will weight a bit more than the normal S2Lx due to the heavier but beautiful red Cambium-saddle, the colored ti-parts and the probably minimal heavier grips. No problem to add fenders, even with the titanium stays - both available from Brompton as a spare part.

However, the 2lx is the most attractive Brompton from a rider's perspective that does not want to do loaded touring. Make sure that you will be ok with the S-handlebars, otherwise the CHPT3 is not for you. Think about upgrading the seat post to titanium via an aftermarket version from china via ebay - it is cheap and saves a lot of weight. Make sure you get the correct length of the seat post for your size - many need the longer version and those should think about the telescopic version as it compacts, saving on folded size. However a bitter tradeoff in terms of weight. There is a slightly lighter telescopic version from Joseph Kusoac but it is still heavier than the non-telescopic ti-versions.

Pricewise check what is the price difference between a 2ex (w/o fenders) and a 2-peed CHPT3. Substract the price for the Brooks-saddle and judge if the difference between the two bikes is worth it to you. Typically the special editions are not more expensive than the normal ones if you substract the price for additional more expensive parts like a brooks saddle. It may however be different with the CHPT3 due to the colored ti-parts.

Last edited by berlinonaut; 02-26-18 at 02:05 PM.
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Old 02-26-18, 01:46 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by avole View Post
You want the 6 speed. Ignore any advice that says otherwise.
Did you ever ride a 2-speed extensively to be able to compare?
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Old 02-26-18, 01:51 PM
  #40  
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Berlini, assuredly.The two speed is not a good choice unless it's for commuting in flattish cities only. Besides, you're always better off future proofing your bike at purchase. If I hadn't got a Brompton with the lot, I wouldn't have been able to take it touring in Asia and Oz.

Sadly your advice is ill advised in this case.
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Old 02-26-18, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by avole View Post
Berlini, assuredly.The two speed is not a good choice unless it's for commuting in flattish cities only.
As said before: I've been happily touring with the 2-speed, even in the Alps and know some people that have done the same. Each year a group of Brompton riders does the Berlin wall way on Bromptons - 165km on a single day. Some of them on 2-speeds and they are just average riders. Admittedly mostly flat terrain but I would not call this exactly commuting in flattish cities.... Each year in autum a group of Brompton riders climb the Brocken, a mountain in the German area of Harz. Some of them on two-speeds, some of them with an additional 39t granny gear. Not directly commuting in the flat either and no city around.

A useless discussion anyway as the OP did not say what he intends to do with his Brompton - I'd assume if he wanted to go touring he would have mentioned it.

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Old 02-26-18, 02:09 PM
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You are superman. To the OP, get the 6 speed
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Old 02-26-18, 05:21 PM
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I don't want to spend time/money modifying, which is why I want to make the right decision up front. I'm almost convinced that I should get the 6 speed black edition/black lacquer bike but my only hangup I still have is whether I should be going with a superlight/titanium instead...
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Old 02-26-18, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Caliwild View Post
I don't want to spend time/money modifying, which is why I want to make the right decision up front. I'm almost convinced that I should get the 6 speed black edition/black lacquer bike but my only hangup I still have is whether I should be going with a superlight/titanium instead...
If you have the cash and like the looks of the CHPT3 - I think it's killer - get that one and have the shop slap some black fenders on it. It's cool!
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Old 02-26-18, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Joe Remi View Post
If you have the cash and like the looks of the CHPT3 - I think it's killer - get that one and have the shop slap some black fenders on it. It's cool!
The CHPT3 version will end up costing me an extra $975 due to a deal on the black lacquer one... That's a lot of dough! I guess it depends on how much I want it. I can almost get another single speed brommie for that price...
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Old 02-26-18, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Caliwild View Post
I don't want to spend time/money modifying, which is why I want to make the right decision up front. I'm almost convinced that I should get the 6 speed black edition/black lacquer bike but my only hangup I still have is whether I should be going with a superlight/titanium instead...
You will never regret having a lighter bike. And in a year or two you won't think about the money spent. Every single time I have "cheaped out" on something in the beginning, I've ended up wishing I had done it right in the first place. Have you ever experienced that? If you get what you really want you'll be happier. Save the upgrading for gearing and the like. Get the basic frame you want now; it will be less expensive than upgrading the frame later on (prices go up, labor goes up, etc.). Unless you don't have the $ now, in that case, get what you can afford and save up to make the changes later.
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Old 02-26-18, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by linberl View Post
You will never regret having a lighter bike. And in a year or two you won't think about the money spent. Every single time I have "cheaped out" on something in the beginning, I've ended up wishing I had done it right in the first place. Have you ever experienced that? If you get what you really want you'll be happier. Save the upgrading for gearing and the like. Get the basic frame you want now; it will be less expensive than upgrading the frame later on (prices go up, labor goes up, etc.). Unless you don't have the $ now, in that case, get what you can afford and save up to make the changes later.
This happened to me with my last Brompton. I found a good deal on a Stardust Black model, but really wanted something more colorful. The sparkly black looked great, but it didn't make me want to grab it and go so I ended up not riding it much. I should've held out for the grey w/rasberry extremities I really wanted.
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Old 02-26-18, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Joe Remi View Post
This happened to me with my last Brompton. I found a good deal on a Stardust Black model, but really wanted something more colorful. The sparkly black looked great, but it didn't make me want to grab it and go so I ended up not riding it much. I should've held out for the grey w/rasberry extremities I really wanted.
Yup. I know we are supposed to be adults and really the components and configuration should matter more than anything, but truth is....we ride the bikes that make us smile (on the inside or outside). Buy the bike that makes you happy. Even if it means waiting a bit to save more for it. Aesthetics mean a lot. If they didn't, everyone would just drive base model Toyotas, lol.
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Old 02-27-18, 01:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Caliwild View Post
The CHPT3 version will end up costing me an extra $975 due to a deal on the black lacquer one... That's a lot of dough! I guess it depends on how much I want it. I can almost get another single speed brommie for that price...
That $975 will get you a round trip ticket to Amsterdam. Buy the ti if you will lift/carry the bike often but not otherwise as weight really doesn't matter much when riding.

Buy the 6 speed unless you will mainly ride flatland and/or short distances.
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Old 02-27-18, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by DoubleDiamonDog View Post
That $975 will get you a round trip ticket to Amsterdam. Buy the ti if you will lift/carry the bike often but not otherwise as weight really doesn't matter much when riding.

Buy the 6 speed unless you will mainly ride flatland and/or short distances.
Great advice. Thanks!
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