owlmaster08

First, I would like to say that I have been more of a runner than a bicycler, so am king of ignorant about bikes...

I just moved, and I now currently have an 8 mile (one way) commute to work. It is along a road that is 3 lanes each direction, 45 mph speed limit. There are many traffic lights; it is a commercial type area (restraunts/stores, some houses). Traffic is usually not too bad, most of the times traffic can easily fit into 2 or the 3 lanes. There is a sidewalk the whole way, but it is in pretty bad condition for a lot of it.

I am currently riding a Dahon Mariner (2007) that I picked up in college when I had to park over a mile and a half from my dorm. It has served me very well so far. I ride the sidewalks all the way there, averaging about 15 mph (including waiting on lights). Most the lights turn red with only 1 car at little side streets; since I'm on the sidewalk I just keep going. For the real intersections I actually wait for the light to turn green.

My issue is that once I get up to about 15 mph, I am starting to peddle pretty quick and would like to shift to a better gear. I spend pretty much all my time in gear 7 (out of 7), except for starting from a stop. It's gear inches are 34" - 92". I would like to go faster, but it is just too tiring peddling that quick for too long. I was able to get it up to almost 30 mph once on the street to cross an intersection, but I was peddling so quick it seemed that the chain wasn't even attached... >:0 The sidewalks also prevents going much faster, as they aren't in good condition.

I would like to ride on the road, but 15 mph is not going to cut it in a 45 mph zone, even if traffic can all get over. If I get a bike with a higher gear range, how fast can I expect to go? Would I be able to ride on the street? I am in pretty good shape because I run, but I am not a heavy bicycler (though am really starting to get into it! ) I am looking at bikes like the Dahon Matrix, Dahon Speed TT, and Dahon Cadenza, and speed TR. All these bikes go up to 110-125 gear inches or so. I hate being limited by by bikes gearing, so wouldn't mind getting one with gears higher than I would use and grow into it as I get better.

I am leaning towards the Speed Pro, as it is the fastest, but is also the most expensive. If I won't be able to go fast enough on the street and live, then the matrix looks the best as it has good shocks, and would be better on the "sidewalk"? The cadenza looks like a cheaper version of the Speed Pro (but with 26'' tires)? The speed TR looks like a more expensive version of the matrix? Maybe I should just consider a normal bike? I live in an apartment, so I take my bike inside. I also have a civic, and like to put my bike in the trunk. A normal bike wouldn't fit. I took my mariner to a trail once and did 50 miles on it. I haven't done this since because I was so sore in the rear after this. It would be nice if I could do this with my new bike. I would like to get into more bicycling and do some longer distance road stuff too, but don't feel comfortable doing this on my mariner...

I am single, so I can spend my money on whatever I want, but I just got out of college so don't have a ton of money. I can easily afford a $1000+ dollar bike (like the speed pro) if that is what would help me out, but I don't want to spend that kind of money if it would be a complete waste (aka, is the speed pro just for pros?)!

Please help! Sorry for the length...(and thank you very much in advance!!!!!!)

Dynocoaster 

The Dahon Smooth Hound is a great deal and should be quick , it doesnt fold but is pretty skinny. Thor has a deal on these right now shipped to your door. https://www.thorusa.com/dahon/2007/smoothhound.htm I have given some serious thought to get one.

owlmaster08

Thanks for the reply.. I actually saw the smoothhound. I really like the colors! (one reason I chose the Mariner back then I love blue) It has only a few more gear inches than the mariner though, 27" - 97" as opposed to 93''. I think I want something AT LEAST above 100''?

Dynocoaster 

Ask Thor what it would take to swap out the cassette for the gearing you want. You could even do it on the Mariner.

stevegor

Look around for a second hand Bike Friday Pocket Rocket/Pro or a New World Tourist. Get one with chainrings bigger than the standard 53/39, maybe even up to 60/50...then you'll get real speed.
Just realise though, that it's better to learn to spin with a higher cadence than grind out tall gears.

owlmaster08

Yeah, I'm finally getting used to remembering to shift down to 5 or 6 before I stop. I cringe when I start from a complete stop at gear 7 as I hear the teeth engage the chain (it's not too hard to do, but it doesn't sound good..) I am a newbie cyclist, but I want to learn

jur

It is hard to get higher than 100" gearing on a 20" wheeled bike:

406mm rim + 28mm tyre = 462mm diameter = 18.2"
gear ratio max 60T/11T = 5.45
gearing = 5.45 * 18.2" = 99"

To get higher, you have to either get a SRAM dualdrive in the back or a Schlumpf speed drive in the front.

But the above 99" is what I have on my Swift (see sig) and it has sufficient gearing to keep up with the lycra louts.

If this seems still too low to you, you might consider your cadence - is it to low? For details about this, see the late sheldonbrown's site.

owlmaster08

I don't have to have a 20'' bike, that's why threw the matrix and Cadenza on that list, they are 26''. I don't know much about cadences. All I know is that when I'm going along as fast as I can go (which is what I want to do), I am spinning the pedals at a decent pace, fast enough that it feels like each stroke isn't doing very much on flat ground. It feels like to go any faster, I have to put in an exponential increase in energy and effort. This is when it's time to switch gears I thought? Who is this sheldon brown? Maybe I should read into that...

Oh, and that's a nice looking bike!

I found his site, I will do a little bit of reading, thanks!

owlmaster08

Sheldon's website has a great deal of information...I will have to read it more tomorrow, but until then I will throw something else out. Could the riding posture of the mariner be part of the problem too? It is very upright. Sorry I am so ignorant...

jur

Ignorant? Everybody starts out ignorant...

Riding posture preference is one of those things that change as you get more experienced. When I started out, I couldn't get upright enough. All my settings were at maximum and still my back wasn't vertical.

Now after some years I have more or less adapted to the common 45degree posture, body and arms at 45deg with the horizontal, handlebars approx same height as saddle. The forward leaning body angle allows you to develop more power from the legs due to both the upper body providing a counterweight for leg action, and the leg extensor muscles working more optimally with the body lower down. You can feel this latter effect easily by hunching down when you get to uphills - it feels much easier.

stevegor

Hey Jur, What's this about lycra louts?......I have been one, sorta still are and probably will be one for a while yet...even on the R20

Owlmaster, don't feel embarrssed to ask questions because there is a wealth of bicycle knowledge here and many eager people only too happy to help.

Fat Boy

Assuming your gear inch calculations are correct, you don't need to buy anything, you need to spin your legs.

92 gear inches at a 90 rpm cadence is over 24 mph. You should be able to spin to 100 without any problem and that's good for 27 mph. If you can easily ride 27 mph and want to go faster, then call Team High Road or Team Slipstream. They'll give you a bike and pay you to boot.

jur

Heh heh, I also slip easily into the guise of lycra lout when the Swift is taken for its exercise...

stevegor

Hmmmm...............LYCRA

The only thing is, that I'm not racing anymore, so I don't shave the pegs....look like a gorilla now...must annoy the heck out of the"pretty boys" when I turn up in bibs for a bunch ride in Summer.

snafu21

I have a Matrix 26" and a Hammerhead (Smooth Hound frame). I don't get either near 30 mph often due to feek and weebleness.

My Matrix (2007) is more mountain bike than roadie - bars are set low and frame geometry puts your weight forrard, so road vision and comfort is slightly compromised - but they make great urban bikes because suspension, larger wheels and tires work well with bad surfaces. They double as capable off-road singletrack weekenders but Dahon bill the Matrix as an urban tool that's dirt capable.

I can top the Matrix out around 28 mph occasionally but I'm not a powerful rider. The 2008 Matrix has a redesigned frame, but similar componentry and ethos. It will fit in your Civic.

The Hammerhead is a bonkers lightweight sprint road bike. Skinny tyres and wheels accelerate extremely well but you feel every road imperfection through it. It 'folds' flat for stowage. Smooth Hound is a more civilised touring version. 2008 versions are lighter and 'break-apart' for stowage.

I'm using the Matrix more often in town now, it seems more rugged and stable in fast traffic. Capable front suspension eats potholes and kerb jumps but I don't get the bike onto the largest chainring much - hilly area, feakly weeble, so I slog along at 14 mph on the Matrix for a 13 mile commute. It's a lot of fun off tarmac though - with a tyre change from the urban Conti Sport Contact smoothies. I wouldn't want to carry it anywhere or commute with it on public transport - although people do.

Components are good MTB spec and low maintenance/easily upgradeable on the Matrix - SRAM 7.0 rear cog swapper, Shimano Hyperglide rear cassette, sealed bottom bracket, Shimano hubs, FSA crankset, WTB rims and Shimano cable disk brakes, and if you shop around you may pick up a discount 2007 bike at 2/3rds list. I'm not a fast rider, but surprised myself on the local trail at the weekend, overtaking the locals on their MTBs. The Matrix is reasonably light (12.5 kilos) for an MTB at this price, and terrific as an urban bike. It's much more comfortable than the Hammerhead, so I ride it more.

A suspension seatpost and a gel saddle work well for trail riding (cheap upgrade) and you can put the lightweight saddle and seatpost back on for road riding.

If I could keep only one it would be the Matrix - it's a smooth runner, works offroad, and has low maintenance, but the manouverable 20" Hammerhead is a blast to ride in traffic and has upmarket components too.

Whatever you get - look at the crankset to see if the front largest chainring is unscrewable and therefore easily change-able for a larger one. On some of the cheaper bikes it's riveted together, and a front chainring change may then mean a crankset-ectomy.

You may not be able to fit a a larger chainring on a 20" bike as Jur says, - but that's outside my knowledge.

All bikes are compromises- if you want a full-on road bike you may end up with that, skinny tyres and all , and used ones are cheap - and fast.

BUT ...having a good all-rounder gives you more versatility and maybe some trail capability at the possible expense of top-speed. For apartment living, road commuting and weekend trailster, you could do worse than the 26" Dahons. If you still need more gear inches, the replaceable large chainring is an easy swap-out though you may then need a longer chain, and possibly a front dérailleur swap.

2007 Matrix

bendembroski

I don't want to come across all preachy, but I really feel that riding as fast as you describe on sidewalks is not safe (for you or pedestrians). I would suggest that you are much better off in the road at those speeds. Even if you can get you speed up to, and maintain, 25 MPH you are still going half the speed of the cars on the road. Whatever the speed, getting hit from the rear because of slow speed the least likely way of getting "whacked" by far.

Check out the commuting forums, and you'll see plenty of discussion. https://bicyclesafe.com/ is pretty good intro to this as well.

Sorry to hijack the thread, but I thought this needed mentioning.

Back to the topic at hand. I've got a swift folder too, and like Jur, It's got plenty of gear for me. Then again, my legs tend to poop out long before I run out of gear inches -- on the flat anyway.

jur

+1

I meant to point this out as well but then forgot. Abandon ye those sidewalks! May I suggest a helmet mirror? It allows you to keep an eye on what's behind you, adding to the safety and confidence.

PDR

Here in the UK riding on the pavement (sidewalk) is illegal and you can be fined so most of us stick to the road or cycle paths.
I currently ride a Dahon MU SL (even lighter than the Speed Pro) and have no problem keeping ahead of city traffic and I’ve not had anyone hit me on the open road (yet).
You mentioned a couple of Dahons, The Speed Pro and the Speed TR. Personally I would say that the heavier TR would be quicker on rough badly surfaced sidewalks than the Speed Pro simply because of the larger and more comfortable tyres. The speed Pro would be quicker on smooth roads.
If you want to ride fast (on the road) get a Speed Pro or a MU SL or go for a Bike Friday ... or what about a Birdy “Speed”, that should handle the rougher surfaces OK.

mroli

I'm with PDR here, a MU SL is perfect for fast road riding - I average around 16 mph on my speedo on the road including all waiting time at lights - and probably keep a constant cycling speed of around 22 mph. I'm quicker on the Hammerhead (around 18 and 24). My mate has an airnimal which I love the look of, the Bike Fridays look great, the Xootr Swift would be on my list if I could justify ANOTHER bike and the dream is to own a top of the range Moulton!

taser

I'm waiting for my MU P24 to arrive. It's geared from 21" - 114". It comes in a nice orbit blue.

Info

owlmaster08

Ok, so jur hinted that maybe I am just not peddling quick enough...Fat Boy pretty much told me I wasn't peddling quick enough. I checked Sheldon Brown's site as suggested, and he says "Most experienced cyclists pedal at cadences in the range of 70-90 RPM. " I think when I am going at my fast pace I am doing about 60-70 RPM on gear 7. I tried to measure this today but it was hard to watch the second on my watch and not get crash at the same time... On gear 6 I could easily do 90 RPM, though I would slow down a bit (or so it felt).

So my question is, just because experienced cyclists go 70-90 RPM, should I strive to also at this point? Sheldon Brown says "Inexperienced cyclists tend to ride in higher gears than they should, pedaling at a slower cadence. " I don't want to argue with him, so I guess I don't need a new bike... I was wanting a new toy, but I guess I don't need one, haha.

About the sidewalks, they aren't really used at all. During each trip, I will pass maybe 5 people and 1 or two bikes. It's not a downtown setting or anything. It's mostly commercial, so no one walks anywhere, everyone just drives. The bikers I see are people riding pretty old bike in non workout clothes just putting somewhere at maybe like 5 mph, slow enough I could run along, lol.

Just for kicks I rode mostly on the street today. It was great not having to worry about sidewalk cracks/bumps, etc. Several times though, instead of getting in the empty lane, people would pass me while still staying in my lane a bit, therefore passing really close... I could understand if they couldn't use the other lane maybe, but yeah. I also I tried to concentrate on peddling fast. On any slight up hill inclines where I couldn't peddle as fast I shifted to 6, even though normally I would've stayed in 7. I didn't really feel any kind of improvement. It felt like I was going faster in 7. This is why I originally wanted a bike with higher gear range, it seems I can go faster at higher gears, even if I'm peddling slower. I am not yet a believer in this high RPM "spinning" concept, but I am a newb and if the pros do it, I will just have to adjust, maybe it will come to me once I cycle more...

I was wanting to know if I was achieving higher speeds or not today, but my speedometer isn't really working anymore since late last week. Sometimes it will give values then go back to 0, values then 0. It is only 2 weeks old, and worked awesome for a week. I think some of the bumps knocked the magnet/sensor but even after putting it where I originally installed it it doesn't seem to work correctly. :'( Any ideas of common problems or things to try would be nice!

I'll look into the helmet mirror Jur.

snafu21, Thanks very much with the very in depth review of the Matrix. It makes me very much want one now, even more than before, but as I stated above, I guess I am just a newb who needs to peddle faster If I didn't have the mariner yet, the Matrix would've been a good choice.

PDR, thanks for the comments, they go right along with what I was originally thinking! Apparently my problem as I gave stated is I am not a cyclist yet, and need to vastly improve my abilities before I consider higher priced bicycles.

Taser, that orbit blue is amazing! It is similar to the color of my car. I love dark blue colors...Apparently I don't need a new bike anymore though ^^

Thanks everyone for your comments, helps and hints!

If anyone has anymore hints or comments or links I am still reading the thread!

dBill

Not to overly simplify this, but the higher cadence "saves" the legs but places stress the heart & lungs. The racers boys have tremendous aerobic capacity & cadio fitness so they can get away with that.

owlmaster08

So, in simple terms, someone who's not a racerboy like me, could get a bike with gearing above 100'', and as I could peddle it at 50-60 RPM I could still go very fast, it'd just tire my legs out (and maybe wear my gear teeth haha) as opposed to giving me more of a cardio workout? If so I will start considering bikes again

Thanks for the extra opinion.

jur

I used to pedal a lot slower than I do these days. I'm not sure I got a benefit speed-wise, but I can readily feel what is optimal - if I shift to a higher gear but keep the speed the same, my legs start screaming at me after a while (this is when I am going fast). If I shift to a lower gear my legs spin like mad but don't get tired, instead my lungs start abusing me.

Every person has an optimum cadence where they will feel most comfortable. As you get more experienced, that cadence tends to move up a bit. No need to artificially start riding at an uncomfortable cadence. You can from time to time just to cadence training drills, spin as fast as you can without bouncing on the saddle. This will smoothen your pedalling style tremendously.

My legs used to be stiff all day at work after commuting but it has been a long time since I had that. I am not sure if that is due to higher cadence (and therefore lower stress on the muscles) or simply the legs are stronger.

owlmaster08

When I first started this route 2 weeks ago, it took me about 50 minutes. I am already down to about 30-33, depending on traffic lights. So I am definitely getting better. I thought I was ready now for a new bike, but I am getting mixed signals. I know I can't do 90 RPM on my Mariner on gear 7, but I do know I could go faster at the next gear setting if there was one, albeit at a lower RPM.

I guess I will keep at this for another couple weeks and see how my level goes? I will watch ebay in the meantime and if I see a good deal then it will be an excuse to get a new bike

Thanks Jur for your input again!