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son hub for the brompton?

Old 01-31-10, 09:29 PM
  #1  
vincentnyc
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son hub for the brompton?

any1 here installed the 28-hole son hub on their brompton?

https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/currency/...lver-11025.htm

beside using it as a lighting system, do u use it to charge any of ur electronic devices? if so, how well does it work?

also where can i get one of this in the us? i know thors is selling a son hub, but it is a 32 hole version and it is for the 20" dahon folding bike. so i dont think it will be compatible for the brompton.

also is there any other cheaper alternative hub than the son hub which will work on the brompton?

Last edited by vincentnyc; 02-01-10 at 11:08 AM.
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Old 02-01-10, 03:14 AM
  #2  
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Originally Posted by vincentnyc View Post
beside using it as a lighting system, do u use it to charge any of ur electronic devices? if so, how well does it work? what is the life expectancy this hub?
I think Peter White Cycles, the SON distributor for the USA has the best info on this:
https://www.peterwhitecycles.com/ewerk.asp

Originally Posted by vincentnyc View Post
also is there any other cheaper alternative hub than the son hub which will work on the brompton?
There is a Shimano Dynohub, 74mm OLD, 8mm diameter axle that Brompton are using in 2010. It's available as part of the Capreo groupset, although I'm not sure if the 8mm axle is available from any other source than Brompton.
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Old 02-01-10, 09:13 AM
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Any ideas the exact date on this shimano hub and the exact price?
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Old 02-01-10, 10:20 AM
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fyi...just got an answer back from sjscycles and they said the shimano hub will be available in mid-march and for about 80. if yes, then i will definately get it.
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Old 02-01-10, 10:33 AM
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vincent,

what are you going to use it for?
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Old 02-01-10, 11:06 AM
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endless possibilities. shimano hub with dahon recharge battery:

https://www.dahon.com/accessories/201...ogic-reecharge

charge gps devices, mp3 player, iphone, blackberry, and other electronic devices. also dynamo lighting too. good for touring.
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Old 02-01-10, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by vincentnyc View Post
endless possibilities. shimano hub with dahon recharge battery:

https://www.dahon.com/accessories/201...ogic-reecharge

charge gps devices, mp3 player, iphone, blackberry, and other electronic devices. also dynamo lighting too. good for touring.
Well I wouldn't really call charging batteries endless possibilities. That's one of the reasons I decided against a dynohub: Because they're front wheel only, which means you can only use it while moving, which means you're basically limited to charging batteries to be drained once stopped, which is very inefficient and bad for the environment.

Instead I'm trying a rear wheel dynamo so I can lift the rear wheel and power things directly without worrying about going anywhere. For example, while touring if you stop for the night you can power your iPhone while you use it. And during the day you can still charge batteries if you want, but I think I'd rather lay out a solar panel on my rack (you can almost get as much power from a small one as you would a dynamo with acceptable drag).

Only thing is I'm not sure if my bottle dynamo will last very long, but I figure it's a good experiment to see how well this paradigm works. If the only problem is bottle dynamo durability then maybe I'll try to build a dynohub rear wheel.
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Old 02-01-10, 01:32 PM
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What if u already have a rear hub like the 3 speed or 8 speed sa? Sorry but I don't want to make u feel stupid but with the biologic recharge, u can still charge the device if u stop pedaling, go watch the video and read the description. And solar panel is not ready for the prime time yet. Go read some problem on solar panel (i.e. cloudy, raining day).
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Old 02-02-10, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by vincentnyc View Post
What if u already have a rear hub like the 3 speed or 8 speed sa? Sorry but I don't want to make u feel stupid but with the biologic recharge, u can still charge the device if u stop pedaling, go watch the video and read the description. And solar panel is not ready for the prime time yet. Go read some problem on solar panel (i.e. cloudy, raining day).
I said I'm going to use a bottle dynamo (ie sidewall dynamo) which is not built in a hub. There are no rear hub dynamos (even externally geared), so if the bottle dynamo can't take the punishment a rear hub dynamo would have to be custom built.

You're not making me feel stupid at all. On the contrary I don't think you realize that with the ReeCharge you have to charge the ReeCharge, then the ReeCharge has to charge the battery in your device, and then the battery in your device has to power your device. This is very inefficient.

Also, my suggestion for the solar panel was not for a replacing a dynamo. I was just saying that, when touring, 90% of the time a front wheel dynamo isn't going to give you anymore power than you would get from a solar panel, except you have drag. The primary disadvantage of both of these is that you cannot generate power while stopped at night (or for rain).

With a rear wheel dynamo you do everything you can do with a front hub dynamo, plus you can generate power while stopped (as opposed to releasing power from an inefficient and environmentally irresponsible string of batteries), plus on sunny days you can completely disconnect it and use a 100% drag free solar panel.

I'm not saying a front hub dynamo isn't best for you. I just wanted to pick your brain because what I'm suggesting is unprecedented and experimental and so I can use as much information as possible. However, my point is I don't think it's fair to say a front hub dynamo has "endless possibilities" when there are some very significant and clear limitations.
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Old 02-02-10, 07:54 AM
  #10  
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Chucky, I know of two rear wheel hub dynamo options.

An old Sturmey Archer AG hub shouldn't cost as much as a new Nexus one, and has a three speed hub built in. There's even a AF option, with a four speed hub, super cool but probably harder to find. The AG won't put out as much power as a new dynamo hub, but it's pretty useable. I have one from the early 50's running LED lights on my old 3-sp and its fine.

The other option, much cooler, is a Pioneer dynamo that attaches to the left side of your rear wheel. There's an ebay seller who sometimes has some sets including this; Spanninga halogen head light, LED tail light with supercapacitor to keep it lit while you stop, and the Pioneer hub dynamo. Very nice unit. I accidentally destroyed some parts of mine, but am using the dynamo on my xtracycle with good effect. I don't remember the seller's name, but it's worth an ebay search on the word Spanninga, I think it's worth the price (around eighty bucks, as I recall)

Last edited by rhm; 02-02-10 at 11:49 AM. Reason: Pioneer, not Panasonic. Sorry.
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Old 02-02-10, 08:08 AM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by rhm View Post
Chucky, I know of two rear wheel hub dynamo options.

An old Sturmey Archer AG hub shouldn't cost as much as a new Nexus one, and has a three speed hub built in. There's even a AF option, with a four speed hub, super cool but probably harder to find. The AG won't put out as much power as a new dynamo hub, but it's pretty useable. I have one from the early 50's running LED lights on my old 3-sp and its fine.

The other option, much cooler, is a Panasonic dynamo that attaches to the left side of your rear wheel. There's an ebay seller who sometimes has some sets including this; Spanninga halogen head light, LED tail light with supercapacitor to keep it lit while you stop, and the Panasonic hub dynamo. Very nice unit. I accidentally destroyed some parts of mine, but am using the dynamo on my xtracycle with good effect. I don't remember the seller's name, but it's worth doing a search for it every now and then, I think it's worth the price (around eighty bucks, as I recall)
Oh, good information thanks. Do you have any further information on the panasonic unit (model number, etc)?
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Old 02-02-10, 09:08 AM
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You're not making me feel stupid at all. On the contrary I don't think you realize that with the ReeCharge you have to charge the ReeCharge, then the ReeCharge has to charge the battery in your device, and then the battery in your device has to power your device. This is very inefficient.

Hi Chucky that is not quite right. When you move the generator will charge your appliances. The battery has two functions in the reecharge .
1. you will be able to charge something when you are standing still and not move
2. to straighten out the current and hertz and amps and what not else to work with the latest I phone


In other words, if the batteries are empty they will charge on the side of your other plug in charge. If they are full the charge runs right by them, with the exception of that I phone thing when it is as you describe ...

It is very nice touring if you have instruments who need lots of batteries otherwise, like GPS or similar.... Instead of changing batteries every day ( or more ) you can run the GPS straight from the reecharge ...

Solarcells ..I have a big one on my boat, let me tell you they are a whole new set of problems, most small ones suck on the battery when not enough sun !! Just to scratch the surface. Heavy and HUGE ... The only way you could do anything with a solar cell is to have a trailer and you load up the trailer with dolar cells AND the much hated battery .....

whats with that rice cooker ? You need electricity for a cooker ?
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Old 02-02-10, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by chucky View Post
I said I'm going to use a bottle dynamo (ie sidewall dynamo) which is not built in a hub. There are no rear hub dynamos (even externally geared), so if the bottle dynamo can't take the punishment a rear hub dynamo would have to be custom built.

You're not making me feel stupid at all. On the contrary I don't think you realize that with the ReeCharge you have to charge the ReeCharge, then the ReeCharge has to charge the battery in your device, and then the battery in your device has to power your device. This is very inefficient.

Also, my suggestion for the solar panel was not for a replacing a dynamo. I was just saying that, when touring, 90% of the time a front wheel dynamo isn't going to give you anymore power than you would get from a solar panel, except you have drag. The primary disadvantage of both of these is that you cannot generate power while stopped at night (or for rain).

With a rear wheel dynamo you do everything you can do with a front hub dynamo, plus you can generate power while stopped (as opposed to releasing power from an inefficient and environmentally irresponsible string of batteries), plus on sunny days you can completely disconnect it and use a 100% drag free solar panel.

I'm not saying a front hub dynamo isn't best for you. I just wanted to pick your brain because what I'm suggesting is unprecedented and experimental and so I can use as much information as possible. However, my point is I don't think it's fair to say a front hub dynamo has "endless possibilities" when there are some very significant and clear limitations.
how is a side dynamo more effective? u said u dont need to pedal and it will still charge ur devices? where does the energy store to when u stop pedaling on ur side dynamo?

like thors said, the reecharge charge when u pedal, once it is fully charge, and if u have any electronic plug into it, it will charges ur devices directly. and at the end of the day, you can remove the reecharge from ur bike and also plug into ur electronic device. i think that is more efficient in my book.

and it is "endless possiblities for me" cuz it charges all my electronic device, for u maybe not, cuz u bring an rice cooker on ur tour.
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Old 02-02-10, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by brakemeister View Post
Hi Chucky that is not quite right. When you move the generator will charge your appliances. The battery has two functions in the reecharge .
1. you will be able to charge something when you are standing still and not move
2. to straighten out the current and hertz and amps and what not else to work with the latest I phone
...and in order to implement these two functions the power you generate charges the Reecharge, which in turn charges the battery in your device, which in turn powers the device. It has nothing to do with whether or not this happens simultaneously or whether or not the total charge in the battery is increasing or decreasing. This is the physical process by which the power is transfered and you can observe the inefficiency of this process by reading the power consumption reported by your laptop's motherboard and comparing it to the actual power drawn at the outlet.

Originally Posted by brakemeister View Post
In other words, if the batteries are empty they will charge on the side of your other plug in charge. If they are full the charge runs right by them, with the exception of that I phone thing when it is as you describe ...
And how does the ReeCharge magically know the regulation requirements of the device it is connected to? It doesn't. It obviously just charges it's own internal battery and lets this battery supply power to the external device. The manual even hints at this when it says "the Reecharge's internal battery needs to have some charge before it can charge other devices".

Originally Posted by brakemeister View Post
Heavy and HUGE ... The only way you could do anything with a solar cell is to have a trailer and you load up the trailer with dolar cells AND the much hated battery .....
Not for a miniscule 3W. A 3W solar panel is about 0.25 square feet.

Just saying, I don't see what's so great about a front hub dynamo when for touring it still has half the drawbacks of a solar panel: still only generate power during the riding day and you still need a battery.

Originally Posted by brakemeister View Post
whats with that rice cooker ? You need electricity for a cooker ?
No, but you need energy of which human powered electricity is a clean and safe form.

Originally Posted by vincentnyc View Post
how is a side dynamo more effective? u said u dont need to pedal and it will still charge ur devices? where does the energy store to when u stop pedaling on ur side dynamo?
I didn't say you don't need to pedal. I said you don't need to be moving.

Last edited by chucky; 02-02-10 at 11:01 AM.
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Old 02-02-10, 12:43 PM
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If u stop moving, how does it still keep the light on? It must be stored somewhere, right?

Last edited by vincentnyc; 02-02-10 at 02:53 PM.
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Old 02-02-10, 02:29 PM
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Ah, have just stumbled across this thread.

One of my my Cargo cycle prototypes has been running about on test & development runs on a Sturmey Archer 3 speed Dynohub wired into a set of Busch Muller lights C/w capacitor sytem for stationary back up lighting.

Due to the effectiveness of the combination of this hub and lighting system, over the last few weeks, I have been buying up every S-A 3-4 speed dynohub from ebay and other classifieds that I could.

What I really want is 5 speed and 8 speed Dynohubs, but that is not going to happen in the foreseeable future.
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Old 02-02-10, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by vincentnyc View Post
If u stop moving, how does it still keep the light on? It must be stored somewhere, right?
Not if you keep the wheel turning (off the ground).

Originally Posted by Gareth View Post
Ah, have just stumbled across this thread.

One of my my Cargo cycle prototypes has been running about on test & development runs on a Sturmey Archer 3 speed Dynohub wired into a set of Busch Muller lights C/w capacitor sytem for stationary back up lighting.

Due to the effectiveness of the combination of this hub and lighting system, over the last few weeks, I have been buying up every S-A 3-4 speed dynohub from ebay and other classifieds that I could.

What I really want is 5 speed and 8 speed Dynohubs, but that is not going to happen in the foreseeable future.
Why do you prefer this to a front dynohub? Only reason I'm interested in a rear is because it's possible to drive the dynamo while stationary if you prop the wheel up whereas the front wheel can only turn if it's moving over the pavement.
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Old 02-02-10, 05:04 PM
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ic now. So u gonna carry a rice cooker and than a trainer to lift up the front wheel? What next? U gonna carry a 36" hdtv, a microwave, a fridge, a washer, and a couch on ur next tour?

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Old 02-02-10, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by vincentnyc View Post
ic now. So u gonna carry a rice cooker and than a trainer to lift up the front wheel? What next? U gonna carry a 36" hdtv, a microwave, a fridge, a washer, and a couch on ur next tour?
And I suppose you intend to eat your iPhone on tour? Of all the ways to make food for yourself I think a rice cooker is one of the smallest and lightest options.

Last edited by chucky; 02-02-10 at 05:27 PM.
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Old 02-02-10, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky View Post
Not if you keep the wheel turning (off the ground).



Why do you prefer this to a front dynohub? Only reason I'm interested in a rear is because it's possible to drive the dynamo while stationary if you prop the wheel up whereas the front wheel can only turn if it's moving over the pavement.

I am also prototyping a delta trike, tadpole recumbent trike & quad. I'll be production building with the hub gears rather than derailuers across the range, a front dynohub is not an issue with either of the two wheelers, or the delta trke, but a single dynohub on a front wheel could be an issue on the tadpole trike and quad. A geared dynohub would also optimise production stocking levels by being common across the range.
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Old 02-02-10, 05:35 PM
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Originally Posted by chucky View Post
And I suppose you intend to eat your iPhone on tour? Of all the ways to make food for yourself I think a rice cooker is one of the smallest and lightest options.
So do u even own a ewerk? Have u tested out with ur rice cooker? Btw I don't own an iphone. and the last thing i wanna do after a long day of touring is cook. i rather eat out at a local restaurant than cook for myself.

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Old 02-03-10, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by vincentnyc View Post
So do u even own a ewerk? Have u tested out with ur rice cooker? Btw I don't own an iphone. and the last thing i wanna do after a long day of touring is cook. i rather eat out at a local restaurant than cook for myself.
E-werk is in the mail. Next step is to shop for a suitable rice cooker.

Anyway, why don't you just charge your devices at the restaurant? Then you don't need the dynamo or the Reecharge. They probably have a 36" hdtv for you to watch also.
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Old 02-03-10, 08:33 AM
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chucky
do me a favour and send me a link of that cooker ... I am always looking to make things esaier on the baot and if such a thing exist I might have a few ideas to use it ( its kinda rough to use the alcohol stove in heavy winds and sea state)
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Old 02-03-10, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by chucky View Post
E-werk is in the mail. Next step is to shop for a suitable rice cooker.

Anyway, why don't you just charge your devices at the restaurant? Then you don't need the dynamo or the Reecharge. They probably have a 36" hdtv for you to watch also.
Nah I don't wanna bother the restaurants for power outlet when it is crowded. I will stick with the recharge and shimano hub. When u get ur ewerk. Take a pix of it with ur rice cooker with u pedaling. Wanna see how well work. And I don't need a hdtv on my tour. I got tons of tv shows and movies on my blackberry.
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Old 02-03-10, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by brakemeister View Post
chucky
do me a favour and send me a link of that cooker ... I am always looking to make things esaier on the baot and if such a thing exist I might have a few ideas to use it ( its kinda rough to use the alcohol stove in heavy winds and sea state)
thanks
A rice cooker is a simple device which basically consists of a small pot and an electric heating element that automatically shuts off once the temperature inside the pot goes above boiling (indicating that all the water inside has been absorbed or evaporated).

It is a staple appliance in every asian home. There are countless manufacturers and you should be able to buy one almost anywhere. In fact, there was actually a book just published called "Where There Are Asians, There are Rice Cookers".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rice_cooker
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